POTS so far has got to be Jack Grimmer. I'd also have him as the pleasant surprise of the season too. By the time we get to May, i fully expect it to be a choice between McCleary, Knight and hopefully either Uche or a forward currently only known to Gareth and Dobbo.
I was thinking about Fred this morning. I'm a bit worried he'll end up lost in the shuffle depending on who we sign in January. It's a real shame he hasn't got going yet.
@davecz tells the truth and states the facts about that Ainsworth, his poor tactics and inferior players not delivering every single week. You can't just call it fanny.
@Wendoverman said: @davecz tells the truth and states the facts about that Ainsworth, his poor tactics and inferior players not delivering every single week. You can't just call it fanny.
I think there's more to come from Horgan as well, but he's been miles better than Fred this season who hasn't had one of his purple patchs yet at all. Especially as a new signing to a fairly unique team, he's started fine and will hopefully kick on with a bit more end product
@davecz said: @Wendoverman - can I suggest you take more water with it, you are talking gibberish!!
It IS a day off work so I am quite relaxed so thought I may have pressed post before finishing or something...but read it back and no...still makes perfect sense
Worth pointing out that Horgan has already played 31 games this season - ten more than any other Wycombe player - in the most congested season we've ever known. His season started on 1st August and he had a couple of weeks 'off' between his last game for Hibs and the Brentford League Cup game, but that's as close to a 'rest' as he's had. I wouldn't expect him to be at his absolute best consistently.
@Malone said:
Horgan is certainly capable of more than he's showing - but he's still showing a lot more than Fred has so far this season. Fred's not got going at all.>>
Instead we seem to have a hard working almost defensive forward.
Would have to see the stats but not sure he's had more than about a single assist yet?
Agreed we haven't found the best way to use him but I disagree he's showing more than Fred. On pure stats he's decidely worse.
Horgan has 1 assist in 1437 minutes and 16 starts.
Fred has 3 assists in 1020 minutes and 10 starts.
Horgan has missed a sitter against Rotherham and also should have done better against QPR when clean through.
Fred should have done better against Coventry when clean through. He only featured in 13 league matches and 3 play-off games last season but we only lost two of those matches.
I'm not sure why Horgan and Kashket have had so much more game time than Fred, particularly since Bayo's return.
Fred only has two assists but comes out higher than Horgan on expected assists (the probability that a pass becomes an assist and the probably the best basic measure of creativity). Bayo leads on that metric by quite a distance - i.e. he's our most creative player. Full explanation here if anyone's interested.
@chairboyscentral said:
He's only got one but was involved in Bloomfield and Mehmeti's goals.
To say he was involved in Mehmeti's goal is a bit generous! A pass backwards to JJ, who then threads the ball between two QPR players and Mehmeti does the rest. If Horgan gets an assist then Fred gets one too for running over the shot to unsight the keeper!
I do agree Horgan has played a lot of games and probably needs a rest at some point, perhaps Bristol City as that gives him 10 straight days off. His work rate is fantastic, just not a lot to show in the final third currently. I hope that changes in the second half of the season.
McLeary has been great on the eye, but for him to overtake some very good defenders for POTS, we are going to have to start getting the ball in the onion bag with regularity, with him chipping in a lot of assists and goals.
@chairboyscentral said:
Fred only has two assists but comes out higher than Horgab on expected assists (the probability that a pass becomes an assist and the probably the best basic measure of creativity). Bayo leads on that metric by quite a distance - i.e. he's out most creative player. Full explanation here if anyone's interested.
Does the Birmingham own goal not count as an assist?
He would have got an assist for Kashket goal at Birmingham and assume Bloomfields?
What's the coincidence? The Millwall have a certain style of play that doesn't suit all players? Or that they happen to have found players to keep them in the Championship?
Your abuse of certain players is lazy.
I'm not seeing any abuse either.
FWIW, I get excited when the ball comes to Horgan at present, in a way I do not when Fred gets it. Horgan's first touch is usually gold and allows all sorts of possibilities to present themselves, which they quite often do by way of his quickness and passing range. When Fred gets it, I merely hope he will be able to get it under control quickly enough not to lose it instantly and then use it in some productive way. He doesn't always disappoint but, at present, it's fair to say I hoped for more from him this season (and still do).
@chairboyscentral said:
Fred only has two assists but comes out higher than Horgab on expected assists (the probability that a pass becomes an assist and the probably the best basic measure of creativity). Bayo leads on that metric by quite a distance - i.e. he's out most creative player. Full explanation here if anyone's interested.
Does the Birmingham own goal not count as an assist?
He would have got an assist for Kashket goal at Birmingham and assume Bloomfields?
Expected to have been good and have been: Horgan, McCleary, Grimmer, Stewart, Wheeler
Surprisingly good with average expectations: JJ, Rocky, Thompson, Adeniran, Kashket
Underwhelming: Fred, Bayo, McCarthy, Gape
I could pretty much go with this appraisal. Might have Wheeler in group B rather than A and create a third category above the Underwhelming group for Kashket, who needs to put take more of these chances at present.
@Malone said:
Horgan is certainly capable of more than he's showing - but he's still showing a lot more than Fred has so far this season. Fred's not got going at all.>>
Instead we seem to have a hard working almost defensive forward.
Would have to see the stats but not sure he's had more than about a single assist yet?
Agreed we haven't found the best way to use him but I disagree he's showing more than Fred. On pure stats he's decidely worse.
Horgan has 1 assist in 1437 minutes and 16 starts.
Fred has 3 assists in 1020 minutes and 10 starts.
Horgan has missed a sitter against Rotherham and also should have done better against QPR when clean through.
Fred should have done better against Coventry when clean through. He only featured in 13 league matches and 3 play-off games last season but we only lost two of those matches.
I'm not sure why Horgan and Kashket have had so much more game time than Fred, particularly since Bayo's return.
The fact that Horgan starts almost all our games and Fred doesn't is probably a better guide on impact this season than stats.
@chairboyscentral said:
Fred only has two assists but comes out higher than Horgab on expected assists (the probability that a pass becomes an assist and the probably the best basic measure of creativity). Bayo leads on that metric by quite a distance - i.e. he's out most creative player. Full explanation here if anyone's interested.
I'm not a stats man but that is certainly what I am seeing. We look more likely to score with Bayo on the pitch and Fred is currently more creative than Horgan.
Horgan does look like a quality player. The ball sticks to him whereas it often fires off Fred's boots to the opposition.
Thing is things happen around Fred. He does create for others. I want more from Horgan. He's too good to be not creating and scoring.
Imagine, just imagine, we start at Bristol City with Fred and Uche up front, Horgan and McCleary on the wings, Wheeler and Freeman in the middle, with Bayo and Kashket coming on for the last 20 mins and at least one of Thompson, Adeniran and Gape getting a run out as well. What a Christmas cracker that would be.
@aloysius said:
Imagine, just imagine, we start at Bristol City with Fred and Uche up front, Horgan and McCleary on the wings, Wheeler and Freeman in the middle, with Bayo and Kashket coming on for the last 20 mins and at least one of Thompson, Adeniran and Gape getting a run out as well. What a Christmas cracker that would be.
And we’d lose 4-0, like we normally do around Christmas/New Year
I know, I know. But I’m scarred (Cheltenham, home, late 80s)
@aloysius said:
Imagine, just imagine, we start at Bristol City with Fred and Uche up front, Horgan and McCleary on the wings, Wheeler and Freeman in the middle, with Bayo and Kashket coming on for the last 20 mins and at least one of Thompson, Adeniran and Gape getting a run out as well. What a Christmas cracker that would be.
And we’d lose 4-0, like we normally do around Christmas/New Year
I know, I know. But I’m scarred (Cheltenham, home, late 80s)
Imagine if we have the usual drop off of form!
We could go from two points over 6 games to...1 point over 6 games!
It is agonizing to feel like we are just a slight rise in being clinical away from a midtable side. In the event we do get relegated, I have some other "bucket list" items I hope we can at least fulfill:
Score at least 3 goals in a game. Surely we can manage this once?
Each of the L2 veterans gets a goal. So far four of the seven have netted (JJ, Blooms, Stewart, Kashket) with three to go (Bayo, Gape, Freeman). Obviously I am talking about those who were with us all the way through (other than those who came back to us).
Thompson not count as a L2 veteran then? Didn't feature much, but certainly remember a cameo at the end of the Tyson Luton away game where he looked pretty suspect!
I think we’re 4 wins short of what we probably should have got: Rotherham, Watford, Preston & QPR. That would have been an extra 10 points that I don’t think unduly flatters our performances.
Ifs and buts I know but this is how I mentally calculate the answer to the ‘how do you expect us to get x more pints when we’ve only won 2 games out of 20
Comments
He's only got one but was involved in Bloomfield and Mehmeti's goals.
POTS so far has got to be Jack Grimmer. I'd also have him as the pleasant surprise of the season too. By the time we get to May, i fully expect it to be a choice between McCleary, Knight and hopefully either Uche or a forward currently only known to Gareth and Dobbo.
I was thinking about Fred this morning. I'm a bit worried he'll end up lost in the shuffle depending on who we sign in January. It's a real shame he hasn't got going yet.
@davecz tells the truth and states the facts about that Ainsworth, his poor tactics and inferior players not delivering every single week. You can't just call it fanny.
@Wendoverman - can I suggest you take more water with it, you are talking gibberish!!
I knew Richie was right!
I think there's more to come from Horgan as well, but he's been miles better than Fred this season who hasn't had one of his purple patchs yet at all. Especially as a new signing to a fairly unique team, he's started fine and will hopefully kick on with a bit more end product
It IS a day off work so I am quite relaxed so thought I may have pressed post before finishing or something...but read it back and no...still makes perfect sense
Worth pointing out that Horgan has already played 31 games this season - ten more than any other Wycombe player - in the most congested season we've ever known. His season started on 1st August and he had a couple of weeks 'off' between his last game for Hibs and the Brentford League Cup game, but that's as close to a 'rest' as he's had. I wouldn't expect him to be at his absolute best consistently.
Agreed we haven't found the best way to use him but I disagree he's showing more than Fred. On pure stats he's decidely worse.
Horgan has 1 assist in 1437 minutes and 16 starts.
Fred has 3 assists in 1020 minutes and 10 starts.
Horgan has missed a sitter against Rotherham and also should have done better against QPR when clean through.
Fred should have done better against Coventry when clean through. He only featured in 13 league matches and 3 play-off games last season but we only lost two of those matches.
I'm not sure why Horgan and Kashket have had so much more game time than Fred, particularly since Bayo's return.
Fred only has two assists but comes out higher than Horgan on expected assists (the probability that a pass becomes an assist and the probably the best basic measure of creativity). Bayo leads on that metric by quite a distance - i.e. he's our most creative player. Full explanation here if anyone's interested.
To say he was involved in Mehmeti's goal is a bit generous! A pass backwards to JJ, who then threads the ball between two QPR players and Mehmeti does the rest. If Horgan gets an assist then Fred gets one too for running over the shot to unsight the keeper!
I do agree Horgan has played a lot of games and probably needs a rest at some point, perhaps Bristol City as that gives him 10 straight days off. His work rate is fantastic, just not a lot to show in the final third currently. I hope that changes in the second half of the season.
McLeary has been great on the eye, but for him to overtake some very good defenders for POTS, we are going to have to start getting the ball in the onion bag with regularity, with him chipping in a lot of assists and goals.
Does the Birmingham own goal not count as an assist?
He would have got an assist for Kashket goal at Birmingham and assume Bloomfields?
I'm not seeing any abuse either.
FWIW, I get excited when the ball comes to Horgan at present, in a way I do not when Fred gets it. Horgan's first touch is usually gold and allows all sorts of possibilities to present themselves, which they quite often do by way of his quickness and passing range. When Fred gets it, I merely hope he will be able to get it under control quickly enough not to lose it instantly and then use it in some productive way. He doesn't always disappoint but, at present, it's fair to say I hoped for more from him this season (and still do).
Yeah, that's right
Yeah, fair enough ?
I could pretty much go with this appraisal. Might have Wheeler in group B rather than A and create a third category above the Underwhelming group for Kashket, who needs to put take more of these chances at present.
The fact that Horgan starts almost all our games and Fred doesn't is probably a better guide on impact this season than stats.
I'm not a stats man but that is certainly what I am seeing. We look more likely to score with Bayo on the pitch and Fred is currently more creative than Horgan.
Horgan does look like a quality player. The ball sticks to him whereas it often fires off Fred's boots to the opposition.
Thing is things happen around Fred. He does create for others. I want more from Horgan. He's too good to be not creating and scoring.
Imagine, just imagine, we start at Bristol City with Fred and Uche up front, Horgan and McCleary on the wings, Wheeler and Freeman in the middle, with Bayo and Kashket coming on for the last 20 mins and at least one of Thompson, Adeniran and Gape getting a run out as well. What a Christmas cracker that would be.
And we’d lose 4-0, like we normally do around Christmas/New Year
I know, I know. But I’m scarred (Cheltenham, home, late 80s)
Imagine if we have the usual drop off of form!
We could go from two points over 6 games to...1 point over 6 games!
Maybe it is upside down world, and we will catch fire during our normal weak period.
With our first week without a game for ages who knows.
Hopefully we can get one of the missing gang back.
Adeniran has been the strangest miss. On the bench one week and then disappeared.
February. That’s when we’ll click
It is agonizing to feel like we are just a slight rise in being clinical away from a midtable side. In the event we do get relegated, I have some other "bucket list" items I hope we can at least fulfill:
Score at least 3 goals in a game. Surely we can manage this once?
Each of the L2 veterans gets a goal. So far four of the seven have netted (JJ, Blooms, Stewart, Kashket) with three to go (Bayo, Gape, Freeman). Obviously I am talking about those who were with us all the way through (other than those who came back to us).
JJ to score a corner which is allowed.
We'd have to become exceptional to be a mid-table side, but we are better than our league position suggests.
Thompson not count as a L2 veteran then? Didn't feature much, but certainly remember a cameo at the end of the Tyson Luton away game where he looked pretty suspect!
I think we’re 4 wins short of what we probably should have got: Rotherham, Watford, Preston & QPR. That would have been an extra 10 points that I don’t think unduly flatters our performances.
Ifs and buts I know but this is how I mentally calculate the answer to the ‘how do you expect us to get x more pints when we’ve only won 2 games out of 20
I'd love to see this team start away at Bristol City:
Allsop
Grimmer Knight Stewart Jacobson
Thompson Adeniran
McCleary Fred Wheeler
Uche
Subs: Gape, Horgan, Kashket, Bayo, Freeman, McCarthy, Tafazoli, Mehmeti, Stockdale