Whatever you think of Bournemouth’s reaction to Pattison’s tackle, the nature of the challenge itself was completely unnecessary and a ridiculous thing to do.
This is absolutely true. It was a ludicrous place to try and put a big tackle in as all their man would have done was to clear it into touch giving us a decent throw in location.
The best he could have hoped for would be to slam it out for a goal kick and maybe clatter himself into the bargain.
Still - this is experience and in the situation the next time he'll either hold his ground or jockey.
Have seen Pattison written off as "National League at best" (classic) and people tweeting the club telling them to get rid, along with some assorted insults. Easy to say it's 'only' Twitter - and I don't think he uses it - but that's not the point. It's depressing and Matt Bloomfield was driven off it by the constant abuse in the past.
Pattison is an inexperienced player who has found himself in the Championship ahead of schedule - and in the team due to injuries piling up - and showed great character to bounce back from Saturday to play so well tonight. Whatever you think of the decision/tackle, he deserves great credit for recovering from a game in which he was at fault for both goals conceded. At least everyone in the camp will have his back.
There's certainly no way we'll appeal the red card. It wasn't a miscarriage of justice, just a harsh red card (in my opinion).
Can't believe someone above suggested that Pattison had done nothing in the game. I thought he played really well, both in terms of the defensive side to his game and on the ball. Pretty sure it was him who set up McCleary for our best chance. He may not be first choice when he returns, but he's looking a good option and I'm sure will come back stronger from this.
Nice to see the Bournemouth manager's humility matches that of his team:
"I felt we were the only team that were going to score if I'm totally honest, 11 against 11.
"The red card - it makes it difficult for any team when they're down to 10 men and maybe it did give us a lift. We got the goal I felt we deserved but we're just disappointed we only won by one tonight."
I am so proud after that. I am also ecstatic that after a rest stop in which we all had a cup of tea and a sandwich, the Nick Freeman bandwagon has now started the ignition again and is lumbering out of the station. I love that player, and that performance today (and the previous one) showed some real growth.
Yes important that the club rallies around a young player after a really difficult few days. I’m sure they will. Hopefully, most well meaning supporters will get behind him too. Not sure how it’s in our football club’s interests to pile into him tonight or on the days ahead.
Pattison made a poor piece of judgement in throwing himself into the tackle like that and it was reckless, but more often than not it wouldn’t have been a red card and he’s been a bit unlucky.
However, skill on the pitch is judged in many different ways and one is being sensible enough not to find yourself in a position where the ref has to weigh up giving you a red or yellow card over a tackle that doesn’t matter that much in the overall scheme of things. One to learn from and I’m sure he’d recognise that.
Plenty to like about Alex though and he will keep improving the more he plays. Currently he’s probably about 6th choice in central midfield and we’re lucky to have a decent young midfielder like him we can turn to given the current situation.
Not too worried about our options for Saturday, as still feel we can form a pretty useful midfield out of McCleary, Horgan, Freeman, Wheeler, Bloomfield or Mehmeti.
@Brownie said:
Nice to see the Bournemouth manager's humility matches that of his team:
"I felt we were the only team that were going to score if I'm totally honest, 11 against 11.
"The red card - it makes it difficult for any team when they're down to 10 men and maybe it did give us a lift. We got the goal I felt we deserved but we're just disappointed we only won by one tonight."
Agree with him up until that last part - they only had two really good chances.
I really liked Bournemouth before this game, and though I give them a pass on surrounding the ref (as someone stated, everyone does it now), their players arguing and fighting on two separate occasions is beyond the norm, and really makes them come across as nastier (or at least far less professional) than the average club.
I couldn’t believe how one or two on here (let alone on that Twitter thing) were so lacking in perspective and judgement that, on Saturday, they were instantly writing off a player they had seen perhaps two or three times this year and who GA (a reasonably good judge of talent, character and potential) clearly rates pretty highly.
It was also good to see the almost forgotten class and composure of Nick Freeman when he came on in the second half. As others have said (unless there are one or two miraculous recoveries from injury in the meantime) Nick must surely start on Saturday. And, when Stewart returns and Tafazolli is fit, it would be interesting to see Knight in a more forward position (as he was on several occasions in the second half tonight).
We MUST get at QPR on Saturday. They are defensively susceptible under Warburton. I would start Horgan, McCleary, Uche and Kashket with 2 deeper lying midfielders.
Bayo on for the late bombardment if needed.
The other thing it appears we need to do is sh!thouse and cheat to the N'th degree and influence referees, as that appears a real catalyst for success at this level. I am sure we didn't expect to need to do it to that extent but we can do it and should because it's cost us more than once.
Let’s hope he’s not suffering any longer term effects of Covid. Of course it may be months since he had it. I personally worried a couple of days ago that I’d got it but it turns out to be that common or garden virus (also a corona virus apparently) that we know as the common cold.
Feel fairly positive despite the defeat. That could be a galvanising experience in some ways as we proved we can give the best in the league a real run for their money, and the players showed great spirit to keep going with 10 men. It gives me confidence we are still capable of pulling off a run of 3-4 wins at some point to keep ourselves in the fight. Clearly we will need some luck and some really strong individual contributions to go with it, but as long as that unity remains we have a chance.
I thought we played well in patches and McCleary, Kashkett and Horgan all caused problems.Shame we couldn’t turn it into a goal. Felt Rocky also had a really good game, as did Knight.
A couple of weeks ago when Adeniran and Thompson were doing so well in midfield I wondered if Freeman might get a run again. To my mind he is much more effective playing in front of a solid platform like that but he he has hardly featured since the opening games when he was part of a scratch midfield that was totally overrun. He is wasted in a scrappy game or where we are being outflanked as we were in the opening games, but with decent players around him to combine with I think he’s really handy at getting the ball down and starting the attack in a controlled fashion. Now that we’ve managed to stabilise the centre of midfield (despite the injuries) and no longer look totally overrun in the middle, I wouldn’t mind seeing him get some more game time.
@Wendoverman said:
Red or not. I did not see the point if a tackle like that in that position on the pitch. And Pattison was playing well up until then.
Agreed. No point in giving the ref a decision to make, as we have all seen them given. It would have been nice to see the 11 v 11 alternate reality, but oh well.
One thing is for certain - if we go down, our points total is not going to be a fair reflection of how competitive we have been this season. We got one point from the relegated PL teams of Watford, Norwich and Bournemouth, when we could easily have had seven. Even then, the combined score was 2-4.
I really feel if you restart this season from now, we are a midtable side. A shame that such an incredible achievement might not come to pass.
Good battle tonight and was worried you might nick a point at the end. In fact, I was worried we wouldn't score at all until the moment of madness.
With the best will in the world, there's no way that can be anything other than a red card. When you see the replay he's up in the air totally out of control. You might wish the rules are different but in the modern game it's a red every time. Worth pointing out that players from both teams were surrounding the ref after the incident, not just one.
The mention of the Watford fan above is hilarious. They have this weird bitter thing about us since we pipped them to the Championship title in the last minute of 2014/15. Wherever I go and chat about matches there's always some Watford fan who has put their oar in about us. It's a little sad and desperate. Especially given they are, shall we say, a very professional team themselves.
Anyway, I digress. Frustrating match from us in that we created a lot but, at the same time, we created little. Lots of chances or attempts with little in the way of clean cut ones. Too many players being selfish or not nailing that final ball.
Stanislas was very odd tonight. I've never seen him like that before but twice he started on another AFCB player. That's now how we do things and I suspect words will be had with him tomorrow.
Warmed my heart to see Allsop playing in the Championship and also doing well. He was unlucky in his time with us so I'm delighted that he's getting his chance now. I hope it's for more than one season up here with you.
The table's looking tough right now and with Hughton in charge at Forest I expect they'll pull away as he will get it right in the end but there are other targets to aim for. I hope you can do it.
@Wendoverman said:
Red or not. I did not see the point if a tackle like that in that position on the pitch. And Pattison was playing well up until then.
I wonder if Gareth has been drilling into the players the importance of not losing the ball in the final third when the team has been pulled out of shape, particularly after a set piece. That's how we've conceded recent goals, not least the McCarthy own goal from the Samuel loss of the ball. We're not set up to defend fast counter-attacking football that exploits the channels and isolates our full backs. So I imagine Gareth has been impressing on the team the need to tackle hard when in danger of losing the ball high up the pitch, even if that means conceding a free kick in the process.
@WillDanceForChocolat - thanks again for being gracious. You have a great side talent wise, though the players arguing and fighting with each other was astounding.
Looking at the card again it's naive rather than dirty, if anything it's made worse because their player isn't really there yet when Pattison goes (a bit high) to get the ball, the defender sort of jumps in sideways and isn't looking where he's going, anyway if we do eventually go down it won't be because of a game we were massive favourites to lose. What a ridiculous long month of games with our injuries. Reminiscent of points in our first season in L1 although with hugely richer opponents. Need a few players back or in new and a scrappy win or two to set some momentum.
@eric_plant said:
Does anyone think that had that tackle been on Pattison last night that our players would have reacted any differently by the way?
We would have asked the question, I don't think we would have been quite as aggressive (I could be wrong). I also think they would have been just as aggrieved if it had been one of their players given red.
I need to watch the Stoke highlights again. I'm sure our players crowded the ref after that challenge by Cousins, but maybe my memory is playing tricks on me
Comments
This is absolutely true. It was a ludicrous place to try and put a big tackle in as all their man would have done was to clear it into touch giving us a decent throw in location.
The best he could have hoped for would be to slam it out for a goal kick and maybe clatter himself into the bargain.
Still - this is experience and in the situation the next time he'll either hold his ground or jockey.
Have seen Pattison written off as "National League at best" (classic) and people tweeting the club telling them to get rid, along with some assorted insults. Easy to say it's 'only' Twitter - and I don't think he uses it - but that's not the point. It's depressing and Matt Bloomfield was driven off it by the constant abuse in the past.
Pattison is an inexperienced player who has found himself in the Championship ahead of schedule - and in the team due to injuries piling up - and showed great character to bounce back from Saturday to play so well tonight. Whatever you think of the decision/tackle, he deserves great credit for recovering from a game in which he was at fault for both goals conceded. At least everyone in the camp will have his back.
He’s not having much luck is he!
There's certainly no way we'll appeal the red card. It wasn't a miscarriage of justice, just a harsh red card (in my opinion).
Can't believe someone above suggested that Pattison had done nothing in the game. I thought he played really well, both in terms of the defensive side to his game and on the ball. Pretty sure it was him who set up McCleary for our best chance. He may not be first choice when he returns, but he's looking a good option and I'm sure will come back stronger from this.
Nice to see the Bournemouth manager's humility matches that of his team:
"I felt we were the only team that were going to score if I'm totally honest, 11 against 11.
"The red card - it makes it difficult for any team when they're down to 10 men and maybe it did give us a lift. We got the goal I felt we deserved but we're just disappointed we only won by one tonight."
I am so proud after that. I am also ecstatic that after a rest stop in which we all had a cup of tea and a sandwich, the Nick Freeman bandwagon has now started the ignition again and is lumbering out of the station. I love that player, and that performance today (and the previous one) showed some real growth.
Yes important that the club rallies around a young player after a really difficult few days. I’m sure they will. Hopefully, most well meaning supporters will get behind him too. Not sure how it’s in our football club’s interests to pile into him tonight or on the days ahead.
Pattison made a poor piece of judgement in throwing himself into the tackle like that and it was reckless, but more often than not it wouldn’t have been a red card and he’s been a bit unlucky.
However, skill on the pitch is judged in many different ways and one is being sensible enough not to find yourself in a position where the ref has to weigh up giving you a red or yellow card over a tackle that doesn’t matter that much in the overall scheme of things. One to learn from and I’m sure he’d recognise that.
Plenty to like about Alex though and he will keep improving the more he plays. Currently he’s probably about 6th choice in central midfield and we’re lucky to have a decent young midfielder like him we can turn to given the current situation.
Not too worried about our options for Saturday, as still feel we can form a pretty useful midfield out of McCleary, Horgan, Freeman, Wheeler, Bloomfield or Mehmeti.
Agree with him up until that last part - they only had two really good chances.
I really liked Bournemouth before this game, and though I give them a pass on surrounding the ref (as someone stated, everyone does it now), their players arguing and fighting on two separate occasions is beyond the norm, and really makes them come across as nastier (or at least far less professional) than the average club.
I couldn’t believe how one or two on here (let alone on that Twitter thing) were so lacking in perspective and judgement that, on Saturday, they were instantly writing off a player they had seen perhaps two or three times this year and who GA (a reasonably good judge of talent, character and potential) clearly rates pretty highly.
It was also good to see the almost forgotten class and composure of Nick Freeman when he came on in the second half. As others have said (unless there are one or two miraculous recoveries from injury in the meantime) Nick must surely start on Saturday. And, when Stewart returns and Tafazolli is fit, it would be interesting to see Knight in a more forward position (as he was on several occasions in the second half tonight).
I'm not sure even Tony Pulis can save Sheffield Wednesday.
We MUST get at QPR on Saturday. They are defensively susceptible under Warburton. I would start Horgan, McCleary, Uche and Kashket with 2 deeper lying midfielders.
Bayo on for the late bombardment if needed.
The other thing it appears we need to do is sh!thouse and cheat to the N'th degree and influence referees, as that appears a real catalyst for success at this level. I am sure we didn't expect to need to do it to that extent but we can do it and should because it's cost us more than once.
I'd have thought one more sub appearance before a start for Uche, but then he did look very sharp tonight.
Let’s hope he’s not suffering any longer term effects of Covid. Of course it may be months since he had it. I personally worried a couple of days ago that I’d got it but it turns out to be that common or garden virus (also a corona virus apparently) that we know as the common cold.
Feel fairly positive despite the defeat. That could be a galvanising experience in some ways as we proved we can give the best in the league a real run for their money, and the players showed great spirit to keep going with 10 men. It gives me confidence we are still capable of pulling off a run of 3-4 wins at some point to keep ourselves in the fight. Clearly we will need some luck and some really strong individual contributions to go with it, but as long as that unity remains we have a chance.
I thought we played well in patches and McCleary, Kashkett and Horgan all caused problems.Shame we couldn’t turn it into a goal. Felt Rocky also had a really good game, as did Knight.
A couple of weeks ago when Adeniran and Thompson were doing so well in midfield I wondered if Freeman might get a run again. To my mind he is much more effective playing in front of a solid platform like that but he he has hardly featured since the opening games when he was part of a scratch midfield that was totally overrun. He is wasted in a scrappy game or where we are being outflanked as we were in the opening games, but with decent players around him to combine with I think he’s really handy at getting the ball down and starting the attack in a controlled fashion. Now that we’ve managed to stabilise the centre of midfield (despite the injuries) and no longer look totally overrun in the middle, I wouldn’t mind seeing him get some more game time.
Red or not. I did not see the point if a tackle like that in that position on the pitch. And Pattison was playing well up until then.
Agreed. No point in giving the ref a decision to make, as we have all seen them given. It would have been nice to see the 11 v 11 alternate reality, but oh well.
One thing is for certain - if we go down, our points total is not going to be a fair reflection of how competitive we have been this season. We got one point from the relegated PL teams of Watford, Norwich and Bournemouth, when we could easily have had seven. Even then, the combined score was 2-4.
I really feel if you restart this season from now, we are a midtable side. A shame that such an incredible achievement might not come to pass.
Just seen it...looks like a red
Good battle tonight and was worried you might nick a point at the end. In fact, I was worried we wouldn't score at all until the moment of madness.
With the best will in the world, there's no way that can be anything other than a red card. When you see the replay he's up in the air totally out of control. You might wish the rules are different but in the modern game it's a red every time. Worth pointing out that players from both teams were surrounding the ref after the incident, not just one.
The mention of the Watford fan above is hilarious. They have this weird bitter thing about us since we pipped them to the Championship title in the last minute of 2014/15. Wherever I go and chat about matches there's always some Watford fan who has put their oar in about us. It's a little sad and desperate. Especially given they are, shall we say, a very professional team themselves.
Anyway, I digress. Frustrating match from us in that we created a lot but, at the same time, we created little. Lots of chances or attempts with little in the way of clean cut ones. Too many players being selfish or not nailing that final ball.
Stanislas was very odd tonight. I've never seen him like that before but twice he started on another AFCB player. That's now how we do things and I suspect words will be had with him tomorrow.
Warmed my heart to see Allsop playing in the Championship and also doing well. He was unlucky in his time with us so I'm delighted that he's getting his chance now. I hope it's for more than one season up here with you.
The table's looking tough right now and with Hughton in charge at Forest I expect they'll pull away as he will get it right in the end but there are other targets to aim for. I hope you can do it.
I'm surprised by GAs comments, but suspect it is his way of leaping to Pattison's defence.
You run the risk putting in a high poorly timed challenge such as that.
How good is McCleary though? An inspired signing
Only way I'll forgive Bournemouth for their OTT reaction to the red is letting us take Nnamdi home on the team bus.
Would really help address our midfield worries and might help us nick some points off their promotion rivals
I wonder if Gareth has been drilling into the players the importance of not losing the ball in the final third when the team has been pulled out of shape, particularly after a set piece. That's how we've conceded recent goals, not least the McCarthy own goal from the Samuel loss of the ball. We're not set up to defend fast counter-attacking football that exploits the channels and isolates our full backs. So I imagine Gareth has been impressing on the team the need to tackle hard when in danger of losing the ball high up the pitch, even if that means conceding a free kick in the process.
@WillDanceForChocolat - thanks again for being gracious. You have a great side talent wise, though the players arguing and fighting with each other was astounding.
Looking at the card again it's naive rather than dirty, if anything it's made worse because their player isn't really there yet when Pattison goes (a bit high) to get the ball, the defender sort of jumps in sideways and isn't looking where he's going, anyway if we do eventually go down it won't be because of a game we were massive favourites to lose. What a ridiculous long month of games with our injuries. Reminiscent of points in our first season in L1 although with hugely richer opponents. Need a few players back or in new and a scrappy win or two to set some momentum.
Does anyone think that had that tackle been on Pattison last night that our players would have reacted any differently by the way?
Yes. None of them reacted to the same type of challenge on Kashket minutes later.
We would have asked the question, I don't think we would have been quite as aggressive (I could be wrong). I also think they would have been just as aggrieved if it had been one of their players given red.
The one that wasn't even given as a free kick?
I need to watch the Stoke highlights again. I'm sure our players crowded the ref after that challenge by Cousins, but maybe my memory is playing tricks on me