@drcongo said:
Actually, it's more than that. The idea of standing in amongst thousands of gammons singing songs about the IRA, god saving the queen and Britannia ruling the waves turns my stomach.
So you only want to enjoy a thing that isn't also enjoyed by people you don't like?
But of a stretch there chief, but have at it. I just tend to find a lot of England fans to be both entitled and xenophobic. Like Luton fans, and I also don’t go to watch them.
Your line about a thread through from childhood could well be a factor here though. I was late teens before I got interested in football and by that age you can see a much bigger picture.
I have nothing against nice, normal people who watch England, and I did even get quite excited during the last World Cup, but live I’d rather watch a country that doesn’t have all the jingoism baggage. Patriotism is the last refuge of the hard of thinking.
I do actually quite like the summer tournaments (as they fill in the gap between the end of our season and the start of our next) and usually (there are exceptions not unrelated to the behaviour of some of our ‘fans’ and the odious entitlement that we sometimes seem to inhabit) want England to do okay.
But 90% of the time I really don’t give a flying fig about the whole circus. (As a guide to my engagement I think I knew who 4 of the starting 11 normally play for).
Personally I also resent the expectation that because I was born and bred in England I have a duty to support the English football team. The Tebbit (I think) cricket ‘test’ almost made me anti-English international sports teams - harder for cricket but surprisingly easy to this day with the English Rugby Union team (which was my sport of choice as a player when young).
@micra said:
Spot on @Wycombe85. Good job he can play just as well on the left (as he did against Nottingham Forest*) now that Gmac will be pushing for the right wing berth.
Talking of Forest, Ireland right back, Christie, must have been up against Horgan on Saturday ?
Christie played as an overlapping right back last weekend (Forest have a plethora of defenders and he is the latest) so he may become the Matty Cash (ex-Wycombe) replacement.
I feel as though, irrespective of individual thoughts on patriotism, etc., international football just does not seem as important anymore, in general. It's a bit like the FA Cup - lots of people still love it, but in aggregate, something has changed.
Leaving the FA Cup discussion for another time (maybe when we are debating whether beating Man United's B Team 5-0 in the third round is a real achievement?) my own thoughts on the decline of international football mostly comes down to the fact that the top domestic teams have become very diverse in the past quarter of a century, and as a result, have the best of the best players playing better football than the international teams.
English teams used to have mostly English players, and thus, playing for England was in a sense the 'All-Star' First Division team, and this was fairly similar around the world. This made international football a clear "step-up" - the best eleven English players would quite possibly beat the best English domestic team, and would go into international battle as a kind of representation of our league system. But now, the top teams have the top talent from all over the world, so the top English team - Liverpool, for now - have a combination of amazing players with their main stars hailing from Egypt, Brazil, Senegal, the Netherlands and so forth, who would probably beat any national team 7/8 times out of 10. This makes international football a step down in quality, and often an unwelcome distraction, in the eyes of many.
This is not a political comment or a critique of the way things were or the way things are, just my observation on why I think international football is not as important. The World Cup is still massively popular, of course, but that is such a carnival which transcends football, it can survive the changes detailed above.
Personally, I don't care for the international game any more, but nor do I care for the "top clubs". I really just want to watch our combination of English, Scottish, Welsh, Ugandan, American, Irish, Jamaican, Nigerian, Antiguan, Albanian, Cypriot and St Kitts and Nevis (Nevisan?) continue to achieve great things!
Interesting views from some on here!
For me, international tournaments still hold the magic, but friendlies and qualifiers just feel a tedious procession in the majority of games, with last night a perfect example.
Walk over game, going through the motions and mass subs to totally peter out the last half hour.
Watched a few mins for the Horgan novelty but when id turned back on later he'd been subbed too. Though it took me 5mins to realise as Ireland didn't have a touch of the ball in that time!
Have to admit i love some premier league action, so the two week breaks are frustrating.
Even worse this season of course with Wycombe having the same break!
I'm the same, I like the tournament's, but can easily do without the qualifiers, the friendlies are just a waste of time and it annoys the hell out of me when a week later they moan they are tired !
Love the summer tournaments like others above but as the European qualifying groups have expanded and the number of teams qualifying has gone up qualifying has become almost automatic.
Now they have this other competition that I thought was to replace friendlies and now we have friendlies to prepare for it. No idea what this new thing gives in terms of rewards.
Didn't watch England last night. Hope the Wycombe boy done good.
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
Love the summer tournaments like others above but as the European qualifying groups have expanded and the number of teams qualifying has gone up qualifying has become almost automatic.
Now they have this other competition that I thought was to replace friendlies and now we have friendlies to prepare for it. No idea what this new thing gives in terms of rewards.
Didn't watch England last night. Hope the Wycombe boy done good.
I think the Nations League has been a (rare) excellent idea from UEFA, and has succeeded generally in replacing friendlies with something competitive. I believe the friendlies in the last two international weeks have just been thrown in because of the need for the delayed play-offs. This has resulted in everyone not involved arranging friendlies. There were 4 tremendously exciting play off games last night. I stuck with Scotland but wanted to watch all of them.
independent.ie
Daryl Horgan: 7 (highest 8)
Very impressive in that good opening spell. Looked at ease on the international stage and has done his cause no harm. Deserves more chances.
balls.ie
Daryl Horgan - 6 (highest 7)
Looked lively at the start of the game, attempting to run at the England defence, getting in behind on a couple of occasions.
Unfortunately for the Wycombe player, he had less and less influence as the home side began to control the tempo of the game. Despite this, he was Ireland's biggest threat in attack.
irishtimes.com
17 Daryl Horgan (Wycombe Wanderers)
Stephen Kenny clearly trusts Horgan and so far the Wycombe Wanderers forward has repaid his manager’s faith. Horgan ran his socks off, pressing throughout and scampering down the inside right channel. He was at the heart of Ireland’s best moments early on with a couple of smart crosses and provided a good out ball before he perhaps ran out of steam and was hooked on the hour mark. Rating: 7 (equal highest)
thesun.ie
DARYL HORGAN 7 (equal highest)
THE silver lining on the dark grey cloud of the night. Right wing has been a problem position for Ireland for years but Horgan showed he could be the solution. Was regularly an outlet ball and central to the few promising attacking moments.
punditarena.com
Daryl Horgan – 5 (equal highest)
The Wycombe Wanderers winger was one of Ireland’s brightest players in the opening period. Horgan was a minor threat down Ireland’s right-wing and delivered some dangerous crosses into the box for teammates to attack.
rte.ie
Daryl Horgan 6 (equal highest)
Looked determined to seize his chance in the early stages with a number of promising runs that threatened to expose Saka’s inexperience in defending from wing-back.
Easily beat Tyrone Mings to dig out a cross as Ireland looked dangerous in the opening 15 but, like O’Dowda, he found himself chasing the ball more often than not before being replaced.
“Horgs” (thanks #daRealAkinfenma) was impressive for the first 20 minutes or so until England took total command and he displayed all the qualities that have made him one of our best signings for a long time - pace, tight control and skill on the ball, quick accurate passing, alertness and energy. Add a few goals and........wow!
@drcongo said:
But of a stretch there chief, but have at it. I just tend to find a lot of England fans to be both entitled and xenophobic. Like Luton fans, and I also don’t go to watch them.
Your line about a thread through from childhood could well be a factor here though. I was late teens before I got interested in football and by that age you can see a much bigger picture.
I have nothing against nice, normal people who watch England, and I did even get quite excited during the last World Cup, but live I’d rather watch a country that doesn’t have all the jingoism baggage. Patriotism is the last refuge of the hard of thinking.
So you think only England have moron fans all countries do have not just England.
No interest in friendlies but I like a Tournament. I must admit letting the World Cup prop up Vlad and then the Qatar debacle (a land with no stadiums which are now being built by bonded labour in a climate that would roast a lizard) tarnished the WC for me (although had we won it in Moscow I would have enjoyed that a lot!). And though I agree Brits travelling (in general to be fair) are largely unpleasant and I would not want to be sharing a plane, beach, foreign police van with any of them, I reassure myself that the players do not agree with (or often understand!) a lot of the drunken garbage. Also our national anthem is no more jingoistic than anyone else is it (as I reckon that's the point of them!)
@Lloyd2084 said:
It looks like Alan Browne from ROI has tested positive for Covid after the game last night, having played alongside Horgan in midfield.
Fingers crossed Daryl is in the clear and able to meet back up with the squad next week.
Would have been pretty awkward if he'd managed to infect the whole of the two squads. Both for the next internationals, and for the ensuing round of premier games!
Would have been pretty awkward if he'd managed to infect the whole of the two squads. Both for the next internationals, and for the ensuing round of premier games!
Been listening to some interesting analysis come out of the first few weeks of the NFL season. Covid cases seem to be on the increase but no real evidence to say playing matches is a big risk. Currently no known cross team infections and plenty of anecdotal information that most infections come from outside the team environment.
Based on Instagram postings I'd be more worried about Bayo getting the virus than Horgan
Would have been pretty awkward if he'd managed to infect the whole of the two squads. Both for the next internationals, and for the ensuing round of premier games!
Been listening to some interesting analysis come out of the first few weeks of the NFL season. Covid cases seem to be on the increase but no real evidence to say playing matches is a big risk. Currently no known cross team infections and plenty of anecdotal information that most infections come from outside the team environment.
Based on Instagram postings I'd be more worried about Bayo getting the virus than Horgan
I presume the NFL do a high level of testing?
Salah has just managed to get covid, from some party.
If he was introduced into the Liverpool squad for some training matches, we could then test the hypothesis!
Comments
That's a very good point. A foolish generalisation on my part.
My point relates then to English Wycombe fans
I’d rather cheer for Scotland
Apparently ireland made 520 passes?
So you only want to enjoy a thing that isn't also enjoyed by people you don't like?
But of a stretch there chief, but have at it. I just tend to find a lot of England fans to be both entitled and xenophobic. Like Luton fans, and I also don’t go to watch them.
Your line about a thread through from childhood could well be a factor here though. I was late teens before I got interested in football and by that age you can see a much bigger picture.
I have nothing against nice, normal people who watch England, and I did even get quite excited during the last World Cup, but live I’d rather watch a country that doesn’t have all the jingoism baggage. Patriotism is the last refuge of the hard of thinking.
Well done the Scots, too many pointless games these days, can see it matters to them.
I do actually quite like the summer tournaments (as they fill in the gap between the end of our season and the start of our next) and usually (there are exceptions not unrelated to the behaviour of some of our ‘fans’ and the odious entitlement that we sometimes seem to inhabit) want England to do okay.
But 90% of the time I really don’t give a flying fig about the whole circus. (As a guide to my engagement I think I knew who 4 of the starting 11 normally play for).
Personally I also resent the expectation that because I was born and bred in England I have a duty to support the English football team. The Tebbit (I think) cricket ‘test’ almost made me anti-English international sports teams - harder for cricket but surprisingly easy to this day with the English Rugby Union team (which was my sport of choice as a player when young).
But as noted above. Each to their own.
Christie played as an overlapping right back last weekend (Forest have a plethora of defenders and he is the latest) so he may become the Matty Cash (ex-Wycombe) replacement.
I feel as though, irrespective of individual thoughts on patriotism, etc., international football just does not seem as important anymore, in general. It's a bit like the FA Cup - lots of people still love it, but in aggregate, something has changed.
Leaving the FA Cup discussion for another time (maybe when we are debating whether beating Man United's B Team 5-0 in the third round is a real achievement?) my own thoughts on the decline of international football mostly comes down to the fact that the top domestic teams have become very diverse in the past quarter of a century, and as a result, have the best of the best players playing better football than the international teams.
English teams used to have mostly English players, and thus, playing for England was in a sense the 'All-Star' First Division team, and this was fairly similar around the world. This made international football a clear "step-up" - the best eleven English players would quite possibly beat the best English domestic team, and would go into international battle as a kind of representation of our league system. But now, the top teams have the top talent from all over the world, so the top English team - Liverpool, for now - have a combination of amazing players with their main stars hailing from Egypt, Brazil, Senegal, the Netherlands and so forth, who would probably beat any national team 7/8 times out of 10. This makes international football a step down in quality, and often an unwelcome distraction, in the eyes of many.
This is not a political comment or a critique of the way things were or the way things are, just my observation on why I think international football is not as important. The World Cup is still massively popular, of course, but that is such a carnival which transcends football, it can survive the changes detailed above.
Personally, I don't care for the international game any more, but nor do I care for the "top clubs". I really just want to watch our combination of English, Scottish, Welsh, Ugandan, American, Irish, Jamaican, Nigerian, Antiguan, Albanian, Cypriot and St Kitts and Nevis (Nevisan?) continue to achieve great things!
Interesting views from some on here!
For me, international tournaments still hold the magic, but friendlies and qualifiers just feel a tedious procession in the majority of games, with last night a perfect example.
Walk over game, going through the motions and mass subs to totally peter out the last half hour.
Watched a few mins for the Horgan novelty but when id turned back on later he'd been subbed too. Though it took me 5mins to realise as Ireland didn't have a touch of the ball in that time!
Have to admit i love some premier league action, so the two week breaks are frustrating.
Even worse this season of course with Wycombe having the same break!
I'm the same, I like the tournament's, but can easily do without the qualifiers, the friendlies are just a waste of time and it annoys the hell out of me when a week later they moan they are tired !
Love the summer tournaments like others above but as the European qualifying groups have expanded and the number of teams qualifying has gone up qualifying has become almost automatic.
Now they have this other competition that I thought was to replace friendlies and now we have friendlies to prepare for it. No idea what this new thing gives in terms of rewards.
Didn't watch England last night. Hope the Wycombe boy done good.
I think the Nations League has been a (rare) excellent idea from UEFA, and has succeeded generally in replacing friendlies with something competitive. I believe the friendlies in the last two international weeks have just been thrown in because of the need for the delayed play-offs. This has resulted in everyone not involved arranging friendlies. There were 4 tremendously exciting play off games last night. I stuck with Scotland but wanted to watch all of them.
Ratings in the Irish media:
independent.ie
Daryl Horgan: 7 (highest 8)
Very impressive in that good opening spell. Looked at ease on the international stage and has done his cause no harm. Deserves more chances.
balls.ie
Daryl Horgan - 6 (highest 7)
Looked lively at the start of the game, attempting to run at the England defence, getting in behind on a couple of occasions.
Unfortunately for the Wycombe player, he had less and less influence as the home side began to control the tempo of the game. Despite this, he was Ireland's biggest threat in attack.
irishtimes.com
17 Daryl Horgan (Wycombe Wanderers)
Stephen Kenny clearly trusts Horgan and so far the Wycombe Wanderers forward has repaid his manager’s faith. Horgan ran his socks off, pressing throughout and scampering down the inside right channel. He was at the heart of Ireland’s best moments early on with a couple of smart crosses and provided a good out ball before he perhaps ran out of steam and was hooked on the hour mark. Rating: 7 (equal highest)
thesun.ie
DARYL HORGAN 7 (equal highest)
THE silver lining on the dark grey cloud of the night. Right wing has been a problem position for Ireland for years but Horgan showed he could be the solution. Was regularly an outlet ball and central to the few promising attacking moments.
punditarena.com
Daryl Horgan – 5 (equal highest)
The Wycombe Wanderers winger was one of Ireland’s brightest players in the opening period. Horgan was a minor threat down Ireland’s right-wing and delivered some dangerous crosses into the box for teammates to attack.
rte.ie
Daryl Horgan 6 (equal highest)
Looked determined to seize his chance in the early stages with a number of promising runs that threatened to expose Saka’s inexperience in defending from wing-back.
Easily beat Tyrone Mings to dig out a cross as Ireland looked dangerous in the opening 15 but, like O’Dowda, he found himself chasing the ball more often than not before being replaced.
“Horgs” (thanks #daRealAkinfenma) was impressive for the first 20 minutes or so until England took total command and he displayed all the qualities that have made him one of our best signings for a long time - pace, tight control and skill on the ball, quick accurate passing, alertness and energy. Add a few goals and........wow!
Wouldn't 'Hulk' be a more imaginative nickname? Especially as he sometimes wears green.
I’m not arguing with the Beast!
Paterson now looks like a double of Yosser Hughes !!
Brilliant, Chas. couldn’t think of who he reminded me of. Gizza job!
So you think only England have moron fans all countries do have not just England.
Even Wycombe have some moron fans...
Definitely, though seeing him last night, made me think of John Wark after a trip to the barber.
To be fair to Trev it's a bit odd for someone to trot out that misquote about patriotism whilst also saying they'd rather cheer for Scotland
But each to their own. Be boring if we all thought the same thing. Personally I can't wait for the Euros
No interest in friendlies but I like a Tournament. I must admit letting the World Cup prop up Vlad and then the Qatar debacle (a land with no stadiums which are now being built by bonded labour in a climate that would roast a lizard) tarnished the WC for me (although had we won it in Moscow I would have enjoyed that a lot!). And though I agree Brits travelling (in general to be fair) are largely unpleasant and I would not want to be sharing a plane, beach, foreign police van with any of them, I reassure myself that the players do not agree with (or often understand!) a lot of the drunken garbage. Also our national anthem is no more jingoistic than anyone else is it (as I reckon that's the point of them!)
It looks like Alan Browne from ROI has tested positive for Covid after the game last night, having played alongside Horgan in midfield.
Fingers crossed Daryl is in the clear and able to meet back up with the squad next week.
True - it’s just an awful tune (but in a crowded field). (And at least it is saved from ever having to suffer my tuneless attempts to sing it)
And to be fair the awful singing along of our players yesterday in an empty stadium was a (comic) highlight.
Would have been pretty awkward if he'd managed to infect the whole of the two squads. Both for the next internationals, and for the ensuing round of premier games!
Been listening to some interesting analysis come out of the first few weeks of the NFL season. Covid cases seem to be on the increase but no real evidence to say playing matches is a big risk. Currently no known cross team infections and plenty of anecdotal information that most infections come from outside the team environment.
Based on Instagram postings I'd be more worried about Bayo getting the virus than Horgan
I presume the NFL do a high level of testing?
Salah has just managed to get covid, from some party.
If he was introduced into the Liverpool squad for some training matches, we could then test the hypothesis!