Getting upset over being charged £5 to sit on the floor eating crisps (are you okay with that @Wendoverman?) whilst being kicked in the head by @Micra as he drives past on his rented, club sponsored, mobility scooter saves us from getting too upset over the results so far.
Just don't get me started on the debate over what colour shirt/shorts combination we should wear when playing away from home ...
@Twizz said:
Getting upset over being charged £5 to sit on the floor eating crisps (are you okay with that @Wendoverman?) whilst being kicked in the head by @Micra as he drives past on his rented, club sponsored, mobility scooter saves us from getting too upset over the results so far.
Just don't get me started on the debate over what colour shirt/shorts combination we should wear when playing away from home ...
Where do I sign up for this entertainment? I am in
Surely if the kids are actually having a coke and food then a £5 entry that gives £5 of food and drink vouchers won't be a problem?
It is mad that even in league 1 you could regularly not be let in to spend your money when there's plenty of people in there for 2 hours not spending a bean.
@Username said:
It is mad that even in league 1 you could regularly not be let in to spend your money when there's plenty of people in there for 2 hours not spending a bean.
Agreed, which is why the club have had to change the whole approach to ‘hospitality’.
Some of those tables by the window in the Caledonian are occupied by old-timers who look like they haven’t moved since the last home game or in some cases since a couple of seasons back (given the preponderance of faded Joma replica shirts), by 2.30 they certainly haven’t been putting any more money behind the bar, still hugging their pint purchased at 12.15.
I thought Rob C put it as politely as he could on this weeks ‘Ringing the Blues’ things have got to get commercially astute and some die-hards mentality has to move with it. As Rob suggests, the rest of us have been subsidising these ‘fans’ for too long.
@our_frank said: @perfidious_albion Wow. So tell us, how much does a fan have to spend on a matchday to be allowed to attend a game in this brave new world?
More than nothing if they're preventing others from spending their money.
A small entry fee that included food/ drink tokens to the same value is hardly a draconian measure
@our_frank said: @perfidious_albion Wow. So tell us, how much does a fan have to spend on a matchday to be allowed to attend a game in this brave new world?
More than nothing if they're preventing others from spending their money.
A small entry fee that included food/ drink tokens to the same value is hardly a draconian measure
This isn't about attending the game, but a bit more to have a reserved table in a nice warm pre-match area whilst people are queuing half way back to the gates to get in. No fan of singling out oldies btw, not just because we are in the company of them but because they have likely been paying in for a long while and might need a bit of extra cover during the winter.
@our_frank said: @perfidious_albion Wow. So tell us, how much does a fan have to spend on a matchday to be allowed to attend a game in this brave new world?
When there is a long queue outside, it doesnt really make commercial sense to allow people to sit over 2 hours not spending a bean and just watching the TV. I know two people that regularly do this by the way.
@our_frank said: @perfidious_albion Wow. So tell us, how much does a fan have to spend on a matchday to be allowed to attend a game in this brave new world?
More than nothing if they're preventing others from spending their money.
A small entry fee that included food/ drink tokens to the same value is hardly a draconian measure
This isn't about attending the game, but a bit more to have a reserved table in a nice warm pre-match area whilst people are queuing half way back to the gates to get in. No fan of singling out oldies btw, not just because we are in the company of them but because they have likely been paying in for a long while and might need a bit of extra cover during the winter.
I don't think asking them to pay a fiver in return for £5 with of food or drink to carry on doing that is a problem.
We've got to move slightly away from being entirely run like a charity/ old boys club if we don't want to simply run up huge debts to the Couhigs, and letting them try to make money from the bars we have is one way of doing it. It is frustrating when I've been in a large group all wanting to spend at least the ticket money again behind our bar and it's not been possible due to the bar being full of people simply taking shelter.
The village did massively help the situation, and it's not like it's going to matter this year anyway, but there's been an entry fee for the vere suite in the past I seem to remember, so it would hardly be a crazy step to take.
Perhaps when this is over we could revisit the restrictions on drinking alcohol in view of the pitch. Then we’d be able to grab our beer and sit down with the rain leaking on us through the broken roof
@our_frank said: @perfidious_albion Wow. So tell us, how much does a fan have to spend on a matchday to be allowed to attend a game in this brave new world?
They don’t have to spend a penny more than their entry fee. However there is no place for any ‘dog in a manger’ behaviour either. If an asset is being constrained the club misses out, over the years folk have found ways to, perhaps inadvertently, manipulate the system to their advantage: vis using the bar as a rain shelter. Such activities will no doubt gradually be closed down as the club becomes more professional and efficient. For example I was recently appalled to discover that there were ‘fans’ taking advantage of a ‘free child ticket’ option just so they could ensure there was no one in the seat next to them and had somewhere to rest their sandwiches - you couldn’t make it up!
I’m afraid the harsh reality, in the context of Pete Couhig’s legendary and fully justified dedication to Cost Benefit Analysis, is that too many of us in the wonderful Woodland Lounge (and I can really only speak with certainty for one table) have been spending very little on food and drink during the hour or two before kickoff and I for one only went there at half time to have a quick look at the half time scores and an urgent pee. Neither of us went in after the game. How typical we were is hard to say but I’d say we were far from alone.
I have petty well come to terms with that reality as I hope others have or will in due course; it’s just a shame that the communication with members could not have been better handled and I suppose timed but when the original email was sent out (28 August) the expectation would have been that the arrangements would need to be in place by October.
@our_frank said: @perfidious_albion Wow. So tell us, how much does a fan have to spend on a matchday to be allowed to attend a game in this brave new world?
They don’t have to spend a penny more than their entry fee. However there is no place for any ‘dog in a manger’ behaviour either. If an asset is being constrained the club misses out, over the years folk have found ways to, perhaps inadvertently, manipulate the system to their advantage: vis using the bar as a rain shelter. Such activities will no doubt gradually be closed down as the club becomes more professional and efficient. For example I was recently appalled to discover that there were ‘fans’ taking advantage of a ‘free child ticket’ option just so they could ensure there was no one in the seat next to them and had somewhere to rest their sandwiches - you couldn’t make it up!
Genuine lol at that last bit.
But i have to ask, following your use of "old timer" earlier.
You're a fairly old bloke yourself aren't you?
@perfidious_albion Not a penny more than their entry fee, so long as they're wearing this year's shirt, are of an approved age group and don't take the premium seats in the window?
I hardly ever go in the Vere, so wouldn't know the price of the pint they are nursing, but would that be very different from the new entry price.
And as for the rain, am I to take it that you would like to see the old folks who couldn't afford the Vere standing out in it?
But i have to ask, following your use of "old timer" earlier.
You're a fairly old bloke yourself aren't you?
How very dare you!
Sure I went to Loakes Park and know the words to ‘We Are The Old Bucks Boys’ but ‘old timer’ I see more as an attitude of mind rather than a number.
‘Up The WYC’ as I understand we should now sign off ?
@our_frank said: @perfidious_albion Not a penny more than their entry fee, so long as they're wearing this year's shirt, are of an approved age group and don't take the premium seats in the window?
I hardly ever go in the Vere, so wouldn't know the price of the pint they are nursing, but would that be very different from the new entry price.
And as for the rain, am I to take it that you would like to see the old folks who couldn't afford the Vere standing out in it?
Would you rather nothing was done about our club haemorrhaging money every year with only a league 2 playing budget able to be sustained, which could easily see us leave the league setup with a manager not called G Ainsworth?
Like it or not, the club has been sold to be run as a business now, and no business would let a good portion of their main bar be consistently taken up by people not using the bar (if that is happening- I'd hope the club would know the real numbers on this not just anecdotal hearsay).
I've had numerous people not want to come because of the need to get to the ground so early just to be able to get into a bar which is full, but barely anyone going to the bar. That and then choosing to spend my money elsewhere when I'd rather spend it at the club.
Hopefully the village will sort most of this out anyway by the time we're allowed back in sufficient numbers for it to be a problem
I suspect this is the balance that the club are trying to achieve. Until Chairboys Village you knew you had to arrive before 1315 to guarantee a spot in the Vere. If the lunchtime game was scheduled to finish at 1430, you would then have 15 minutes to try and grab a beer.
If we had a bunch of smaller tables, like Notts County, I wonder if that would increase the capacity further? We may well need them under Covid restrictions or post Covid.
One of the problems with us stuck out of the town centre, you quite often have to drive which limits you to a max of two pints. Which over a couple of hours is not a lot of money going behind the bar and to the club.
I'd love to see a Tranmere style village, which I think is big enough to hold at least 500-600 people.
The sooner people who don’t have physical ailments start leaving the car at home and walk / bus or cycle to AP the better it’ll be for all. Still amazes me the number of people who fume about being stuck in ‘the traffic’ as if somehow it has absolutely nothing to do with them and their car.
I’d never walked to the ground from the town centre before last season and it didn’t take as long as I thought it would. Even taking a regular bus service can get you reasonably close.
Not sure if there is any cycle storage provision at the ground at all. Haven’t seen many bikes arriving at AP.
@arnos_grove said:
The sooner people who don’t have physical ailments start leaving the car at home and walk / bus or cycle to AP the better it’ll be for all. Still amazes me the number of people who fume about being stuck in ‘the traffic’ as if somehow it has absolutely nothing to do with them and their car.
I’d never walked to the ground from the town centre before last season and it didn’t take as long as I thought it would. Even taking a regular bus service can get you reasonably close.
Not sure if there is any cycle storage provision at the ground at all. Haven’t seen many bikes arriving at AP.
Adding cyclists into the leaving melée doesn't seem like a great idea
@arnos_grove said:
The sooner people who don’t have physical ailments start leaving the car at home and walk / bus or cycle to AP the better it’ll be for all. Still amazes me the number of people who fume about being stuck in ‘the traffic’ as if somehow it has absolutely nothing to do with them and their car.
I’d never walked to the ground from the town centre before last season and it didn’t take as long as I thought it would. Even taking a regular bus service can get you reasonably close.
Not sure if there is any cycle storage provision at the ground at all. Haven’t seen many bikes arriving at AP.
Adding cyclists into the leaving melée doesn't seem like a great idea
I always walk from Hazlemere and then back to town centre to get the bus back u the hill. Cycling now there's an idea.
@our_frank said: @perfidious_albion Not a penny more than their entry fee, so long as they're wearing this year's shirt, are of an approved age group and don't take the premium seats in the window?
I hardly ever go in the Vere, so wouldn't know the price of the pint they are nursing, but would that be very different from the new entry price.
And as for the rain, am I to take it that you would like to see the old folks who couldn't afford the Vere standing out in it?
Would you rather nothing was done about our club haemorrhaging money every year with only a league 2 playing budget able to be sustained, which could easily see us leave the league setup with a manager not called G Ainsworth?
Like it or not, the club has been sold to be run as a business now, and no business would let a good portion of their main bar be consistently taken up by people not using the bar (if that is happening- I'd hope the club would know the real numbers on this not just anecdotal hearsay).
I've had numerous people not want to come because of the need to get to the ground so early just to be able to get into a bar which is full, but barely anyone going to the bar. That and then choosing to spend my money elsewhere when I'd rather spend it at the club.
Hopefully the village will sort most of this out anyway by the time we're allowed back in sufficient numbers for it to be a problem
Bit of an exaggeration there, Always seems to be a long queue (or two queues) for beer yet nobody is buying? Can't all be down to slow pouring from barely paid yoofs.
@our_frank said: @perfidious_albion Not a penny more than their entry fee, so long as they're wearing this year's shirt, are of an approved age group and don't take the premium seats in the window?
I hardly ever go in the Vere, so wouldn't know the price of the pint they are nursing, but would that be very different from the new entry price.
And as for the rain, am I to take it that you would like to see the old folks who couldn't afford the Vere standing out in it?
Would you rather nothing was done about our club haemorrhaging money every year with only a league 2 playing budget able to be sustained, which could easily see us leave the league setup with a manager not called G Ainsworth?
Like it or not, the club has been sold to be run as a business now, and no business would let a good portion of their main bar be consistently taken up by people not using the bar (if that is happening- I'd hope the club would know the real numbers on this not just anecdotal hearsay).
I've had numerous people not want to come because of the need to get to the ground so early just to be able to get into a bar which is full, but barely anyone going to the bar. That and then choosing to spend my money elsewhere when I'd rather spend it at the club.
Hopefully the village will sort most of this out anyway by the time we're allowed back in sufficient numbers for it to be a problem
Bit of an exaggeration there, Always seems to be a long queue (or two queues) for beer yet nobody is buying? Can't all be down to slow pouring from barely paid yoofs.
By 2:00 yes it's an exaggeration, but earlier on there's been times I've got there early and there's been no queue to speak of at either bar and the suite has been almost full.
@perfidious_albion@Username I’ve no objection to the £5 entrance fee/voucher thing in the Vere. And I support the drive to make the club financially sustainable. I have some doubt about the methods, but am happy for the Couhigs to have a crack at it.
What seems to me utterly unacceptable is to start blaming out-groups – like families, people who are older than you, younger than you, poorer than you, less well-dressed than you, or less resilient to the rain than you – as part of the narrative. So most of my irritation is reserved for @perfidious_albion and @Ozzie_the_Relaxed , who are blaming these classes of people for costing the club or just preventing them getting a pint quickly. I still buy into the “in this together” narrative; clearly others don’t.
But my irritation is not exclusively for them. Because it seems to me a bizarre customer relations strategy for the Couhigs to talk of the Woodlands Lounge crowd having been "subsidised" up to now when those very people would have been putting more money into Wanderers than the vast majority of fans and when you will need those people to carry on doing so. An alternative view of those people says that they are loyal fans of many years’ standing, who paid the price they were asked to sit in that lounge and will have put considerably greater sums into supporting Wanderers home and away. (Moreover, I wonder how many of them volunteered for the club and so could equally claim to have been subsidising the club, but would never dream of saying any such thing.) Why go out of your way to upset them? And, as I said before, why now, particularly, when noone can get in anyway.
But hey, I guess that’s where me, @perfidious_albion and Rob Couhig have something in common: “People just need something to gripe about”, as the man said.
It's all starting to take me on a nostalgia trip to the good old days of the CRM database and "Sandwiches May Bankrupt Us".
Has it come to this! For me it is more than football. It is more than the World Wide WW phenomenon. It is about supporting a club where young and old, rich and poor can enjoy the beautiful game, embrace in the camaraderie and come away win or lose having had a good time. Sure the club has to be financially sustainable and compete at the highest level but if we lose the true essence of WW as I have certainly known it up till now we will have nothing but shallow memories. Its going to be be a long time before we get to see live game again...but when we do sure spend what pennies you can but don't write off the old codgers in the corner because one day that may well be you !
As mentioned above the "village" has alleviated some of the issues. We like to get to the ground in time for a social catch up with the other fans (often away fans). Prior to the village we had been getting to the ground later and later as we could not spend our ££s at the ground. With the village we now spend between the three of us a minimum of £50 a game. A couple of beers and pies often a half time pint if we are walking home. The Caledonian suite could have a sliding scale of costs,(vouchers) arrivals at 12 = £x 1pm =£y 2pm = £z. Discounts for over 66s under 12s mobility badges etc.
I cannot comment on the Woodlands as I never even knew it existed...but though I am keen for good business measures to be put in place...I'm not sure this season was the one to start...especially as we're not even back in yet. Having said that i suppose if they had implemented this mid-season when we are back in it would have upset people even more. By the same token I assume doing it now avoids the need for anyone to fight in the car park with an angry @micra and they hope it will have blown over by the time we are allowed back in.
Comments
Getting upset over being charged £5 to sit on the floor eating crisps (are you okay with that @Wendoverman?) whilst being kicked in the head by @Micra as he drives past on his rented, club sponsored, mobility scooter saves us from getting too upset over the results so far.
Just don't get me started on the debate over what colour shirt/shorts combination we should wear when playing away from home ...
Where do I sign up for this entertainment? I am in
....,two minds whether to hire the other mobility scooter and race @micra round the Vere.
Surely if the kids are actually having a coke and food then a £5 entry that gives £5 of food and drink vouchers won't be a problem?
It is mad that even in league 1 you could regularly not be let in to spend your money when there's plenty of people in there for 2 hours not spending a bean.
Agreed, which is why the club have had to change the whole approach to ‘hospitality’.
Some of those tables by the window in the Caledonian are occupied by old-timers who look like they haven’t moved since the last home game or in some cases since a couple of seasons back (given the preponderance of faded Joma replica shirts), by 2.30 they certainly haven’t been putting any more money behind the bar, still hugging their pint purchased at 12.15.
I thought Rob C put it as politely as he could on this weeks ‘Ringing the Blues’ things have got to get commercially astute and some die-hards mentality has to move with it. As Rob suggests, the rest of us have been subsidising these ‘fans’ for too long.
@perfidious_albion Wow. So tell us, how much does a fan have to spend on a matchday to be allowed to attend a game in this brave new world?
More than nothing if they're preventing others from spending their money.
A small entry fee that included food/ drink tokens to the same value is hardly a draconian measure
This isn't about attending the game, but a bit more to have a reserved table in a nice warm pre-match area whilst people are queuing half way back to the gates to get in. No fan of singling out oldies btw, not just because we are in the company of them but because they have likely been paying in for a long while and might need a bit of extra cover during the winter.
When there is a long queue outside, it doesnt really make commercial sense to allow people to sit over 2 hours not spending a bean and just watching the TV. I know two people that regularly do this by the way.
I don't think asking them to pay a fiver in return for £5 with of food or drink to carry on doing that is a problem.
We've got to move slightly away from being entirely run like a charity/ old boys club if we don't want to simply run up huge debts to the Couhigs, and letting them try to make money from the bars we have is one way of doing it. It is frustrating when I've been in a large group all wanting to spend at least the ticket money again behind our bar and it's not been possible due to the bar being full of people simply taking shelter.
The village did massively help the situation, and it's not like it's going to matter this year anyway, but there's been an entry fee for the vere suite in the past I seem to remember, so it would hardly be a crazy step to take.
Perhaps when this is over we could revisit the restrictions on drinking alcohol in view of the pitch. Then we’d be able to grab our beer and sit down with the rain leaking on us through the broken roof
They don’t have to spend a penny more than their entry fee. However there is no place for any ‘dog in a manger’ behaviour either. If an asset is being constrained the club misses out, over the years folk have found ways to, perhaps inadvertently, manipulate the system to their advantage: vis using the bar as a rain shelter. Such activities will no doubt gradually be closed down as the club becomes more professional and efficient. For example I was recently appalled to discover that there were ‘fans’ taking advantage of a ‘free child ticket’ option just so they could ensure there was no one in the seat next to them and had somewhere to rest their sandwiches - you couldn’t make it up!
I’m afraid the harsh reality, in the context of Pete Couhig’s legendary and fully justified dedication to Cost Benefit Analysis, is that too many of us in the wonderful Woodland Lounge (and I can really only speak with certainty for one table) have been spending very little on food and drink during the hour or two before kickoff and I for one only went there at half time to have a quick look at the half time scores and an urgent pee. Neither of us went in after the game. How typical we were is hard to say but I’d say we were far from alone.
I have petty well come to terms with that reality as I hope others have or will in due course; it’s just a shame that the communication with members could not have been better handled and I suppose timed but when the original email was sent out (28 August) the expectation would have been that the arrangements would need to be in place by October.
Genuine lol at that last bit.
But i have to ask, following your use of "old timer" earlier.
You're a fairly old bloke yourself aren't you?
@perfidious_albion Not a penny more than their entry fee, so long as they're wearing this year's shirt, are of an approved age group and don't take the premium seats in the window?
I hardly ever go in the Vere, so wouldn't know the price of the pint they are nursing, but would that be very different from the new entry price.
And as for the rain, am I to take it that you would like to see the old folks who couldn't afford the Vere standing out in it?
How very dare you!
Sure I went to Loakes Park and know the words to ‘We Are The Old Bucks Boys’ but ‘old timer’ I see more as an attitude of mind rather than a number.
‘Up The WYC’ as I understand we should now sign off ?
Would you rather nothing was done about our club haemorrhaging money every year with only a league 2 playing budget able to be sustained, which could easily see us leave the league setup with a manager not called G Ainsworth?
Like it or not, the club has been sold to be run as a business now, and no business would let a good portion of their main bar be consistently taken up by people not using the bar (if that is happening- I'd hope the club would know the real numbers on this not just anecdotal hearsay).
I've had numerous people not want to come because of the need to get to the ground so early just to be able to get into a bar which is full, but barely anyone going to the bar. That and then choosing to spend my money elsewhere when I'd rather spend it at the club.
Hopefully the village will sort most of this out anyway by the time we're allowed back in sufficient numbers for it to be a problem
I suspect this is the balance that the club are trying to achieve. Until Chairboys Village you knew you had to arrive before 1315 to guarantee a spot in the Vere. If the lunchtime game was scheduled to finish at 1430, you would then have 15 minutes to try and grab a beer.
If we had a bunch of smaller tables, like Notts County, I wonder if that would increase the capacity further? We may well need them under Covid restrictions or post Covid.
One of the problems with us stuck out of the town centre, you quite often have to drive which limits you to a max of two pints. Which over a couple of hours is not a lot of money going behind the bar and to the club.
I'd love to see a Tranmere style village, which I think is big enough to hold at least 500-600 people.
The sooner people who don’t have physical ailments start leaving the car at home and walk / bus or cycle to AP the better it’ll be for all. Still amazes me the number of people who fume about being stuck in ‘the traffic’ as if somehow it has absolutely nothing to do with them and their car.
I’d never walked to the ground from the town centre before last season and it didn’t take as long as I thought it would. Even taking a regular bus service can get you reasonably close.
Not sure if there is any cycle storage provision at the ground at all. Haven’t seen many bikes arriving at AP.
Adding cyclists into the leaving melée doesn't seem like a great idea
I always walk from Hazlemere and then back to town centre to get the bus back u the hill. Cycling now there's an idea.
Bit of an exaggeration there, Always seems to be a long queue (or two queues) for beer yet nobody is buying? Can't all be down to slow pouring from barely paid yoofs.
By 2:00 yes it's an exaggeration, but earlier on there's been times I've got there early and there's been no queue to speak of at either bar and the suite has been almost full.
@perfidious_albion @Username I’ve no objection to the £5 entrance fee/voucher thing in the Vere. And I support the drive to make the club financially sustainable. I have some doubt about the methods, but am happy for the Couhigs to have a crack at it.
What seems to me utterly unacceptable is to start blaming out-groups – like families, people who are older than you, younger than you, poorer than you, less well-dressed than you, or less resilient to the rain than you – as part of the narrative. So most of my irritation is reserved for @perfidious_albion and @Ozzie_the_Relaxed , who are blaming these classes of people for costing the club or just preventing them getting a pint quickly. I still buy into the “in this together” narrative; clearly others don’t.
But my irritation is not exclusively for them. Because it seems to me a bizarre customer relations strategy for the Couhigs to talk of the Woodlands Lounge crowd having been "subsidised" up to now when those very people would have been putting more money into Wanderers than the vast majority of fans and when you will need those people to carry on doing so. An alternative view of those people says that they are loyal fans of many years’ standing, who paid the price they were asked to sit in that lounge and will have put considerably greater sums into supporting Wanderers home and away. (Moreover, I wonder how many of them volunteered for the club and so could equally claim to have been subsidising the club, but would never dream of saying any such thing.) Why go out of your way to upset them? And, as I said before, why now, particularly, when noone can get in anyway.
But hey, I guess that’s where me, @perfidious_albion and Rob Couhig have something in common: “People just need something to gripe about”, as the man said.
It's all starting to take me on a nostalgia trip to the good old days of the CRM database and "Sandwiches May Bankrupt Us".
Lots has changed in my 20ish years on the gasroom, but @our_frank is still bloody brilliant.
Up there with the very best
Not sure anyone else beats him for the "I wish I'd said that" reaction his posts generally elicit
(He's wrong about golf though)
Has it come to this! For me it is more than football. It is more than the World Wide WW phenomenon. It is about supporting a club where young and old, rich and poor can enjoy the beautiful game, embrace in the camaraderie and come away win or lose having had a good time. Sure the club has to be financially sustainable and compete at the highest level but if we lose the true essence of WW as I have certainly known it up till now we will have nothing but shallow memories. Its going to be be a long time before we get to see live game again...but when we do sure spend what pennies you can but don't write off the old codgers in the corner because one day that may well be you !
As mentioned above the "village" has alleviated some of the issues. We like to get to the ground in time for a social catch up with the other fans (often away fans). Prior to the village we had been getting to the ground later and later as we could not spend our ££s at the ground. With the village we now spend between the three of us a minimum of £50 a game. A couple of beers and pies often a half time pint if we are walking home. The Caledonian suite could have a sliding scale of costs,(vouchers) arrivals at 12 = £x 1pm =£y 2pm = £z. Discounts for over 66s under 12s mobility badges etc.
@Twizz 'sitting on the floor' eating crisps? I'm not an animal!
I cannot comment on the Woodlands as I never even knew it existed...but though I am keen for good business measures to be put in place...I'm not sure this season was the one to start...especially as we're not even back in yet. Having said that i suppose if they had implemented this mid-season when we are back in it would have upset people even more. By the same token I assume doing it now avoids the need for anyone to fight in the car park with an angry @micra and they hope it will have blown over by the time we are allowed back in.