@chairboyscentral said:
Step up from League One to Championship is about twice the step up from League Two to League One
If you are going to tell me this is based on anyyhing other than pure guesswork I'd be impressed. Barring each teams elite players I'd say the jump is pretty small
unless the intention was for McCarthy to just provide back-up/competition. Grimmer is a better player anyway.
Could't disagree more. Grimmer is a decent full back but McCarthy is a much better player
Both good players. Perhaps McCarthy had slightly more goal threat but the bonus with Grimmer is that he has slipped in expertly and there have no been raucous complaints about McCarthy going. (Season not over yet I know.)
@chairboyscentral said:
Step up from League One to Championship is about twice the step up from League Two to League One
If you are going to tell me this is based on anyyhing other than pure guesswork I'd be impressed. Barring each teams elite players I'd say the jump is pretty small
It's not based on guesswork at all. Very few teams come up from this division and thrive in the Championship straight away, whereas plenty coming up from League Two to League One do. Ok, maybe it's not "twice the step up", but it's a lot bigger. PL to Championship is the biggest gap, followed by Champ to L1, followed by L1 to L2.
From what I've seen so far, Grimmer is better defensively than McCarthy - gets caught out of position less, which was McCarthy's one big weakness. His crossing is arguably just as good too. Perhaps McCarthy is more versatile, but even if you don't think Grimmer is a better RB, surely you think he's as good as?
I reckon Norwich, Southampton and Shef U have all had back to back promotions from league 1 to prem in recent years. Luton and burton have done league 2 to champ, so just as much success for league 1 promoted teams last 10 years or so
@drcongo said:
OK, just worked it out. It was roughly 80.5mph - which is pretty good going.
I hit a volley sweetly back in my playing days and it knocked a defender to the floor. I can only imagine what matey's shot would have done to someone!
Earlier in the game matey did take a clearance smack in the face, which necessitated a quick examination from the trainer.
@Croider said:
I reckon Norwich, Southampton and Shef U have all had back to back promotions from league 1 to prem in recent years. Luton and burton have done league 2 to champ, so just as much success for league 1 promoted teams last 10 years or so
I think Sheffield United took two seasons. Rotherham also did back-to-back from League Two, and various others have come close - I'm sure Stevenage finished in the League One play-offs in their first season, and possibly Crawley too? That's not the only measure anyway; there's a visible difference in quality even just watching a Championship game after a League One game. Ultimately, though, in most cases, the key is money and resources - Burton would never have been able to get close to managing what Southampton and Norwich did.
There's a definite jump to the championship, I've read and heard former players say it, in particular that every player is an "athlete" in the championship. Can see the difference watching games on TV, more pace all over the pitch. Biggest difference I've seen between league 1 and 2 has been finishing, less howlers and teams generally have bigger squads so you don't face as many teams down to the bare bones of their squad
Weren't we the last team to get relegated straight back to League Two? In that time, I can think of quite a few teams to have done the same from the Championship.
Perhaps I ahve not been around long enough but perhaps one of the long serving stattos can help when I ask...when was the last time the problems to be faced once promoted to the second tier was actively being discussed on the Gasroom?
Ok, I retrieved some data. Average finishing position of newly promoted Champ teams between 09/10 and 18/19: 14.5. Average position of newly promoted L1 teams since 10/11 (it doesn't go back quite as far): 11.9.
Newly promoted Champ teams relegated in first season since 10/11: 5 (6 since 08/09)
Newly promoted L1 teams relegated in first season since 10/11: 3
I know one of the guys off NTT20 is looking into the L1-Championship gap at the moment, so hopefully there'll be some more up-to-date stuff soon.
@chairboyscentral said:
Step up from League One to Championship is about twice the step up from League Two to League One
If you are going to tell me this is based on anyyhing other than pure guesswork I'd be impressed. Barring each teams elite players I'd say the jump is pretty small
It's not based on guesswork at all. Very few teams come up from this division and thrive in the Championship straight away, whereas plenty coming up from League Two to League One do. Ok, maybe it's not "twice the step up", but it's a lot bigger. PL to Championship is the biggest gap, followed by Champ to L1, followed by L1 to L2.
When we were in league two we were told the> @chairboyscentral said:
Weren't we the last team to get relegated straight back to League Two? In that time, I can think of quite a few teams to have done the same from the Championship.
Possibly. Certainly no team were relegated straight back to league two in the four years before we came up
Our two goals were hit with venom and spare a thought for Samulels' effort. Gazzalike flick over the defender to slam it onto the underside of the bar. Smyth was electric with his ball carrying trickery...
This squad really has got quality all the way through it. Interesting to hear GA talking about that depth (interviewed after Fulham U-21 loss?) in relation to the January window, saying there would be no place fillers and some may have to go out on loan to make way for higher quality replacements.
Looking at our January fixtures we may need some fresh legs, although our strikers coming back from injury now should get enough minutes under their belts each to be firing by then. Do we have enough rotation in the other two thirds to give ourselves the best chance of not repeating last season's form after the turn of the year?
This squad really has got quality all the way through it. Interesting to hear GA talking about that depth (interviewed after Fulham U-21 loss?) in relation to the January window, saying there would be no place fillers and some may have to go out on loan to make way for higher quality replacements.
>
That sounds exciting.
Parker probably needs a loan somewhere. He might not even be involved if we were to reach the 2nd round game, as Gaz will want to make sure there's no whiff of complacency.
I wonder who else?
The young lad whose name I keep forgetting who played right back v MK.
Maybe even Pattison?
This squad really has got quality all the way through it. Interesting to hear GA talking about that depth (interviewed after Fulham U-21 loss?) in relation to the January window, saying there would be no place fillers and some may have to go out on loan to make way for higher quality replacements.
>
That sounds exciting.
Parker probably needs a loan somewhere. He might not even be involved if we were to reach the 2nd round game, as Gaz will want to make sure there's no whiff of complacency.
I wonder who else?
The young lad whose name I keep forgetting who played right back v MK.
Maybe even Pattison?
I don't think we can afford to be loaning many players out yet. JGS quite possibly will be, and Parker at a push, but I can't see any others. Our squad is still small compared to even the likes of Tranmere!
This squad really has got quality all the way through it. Interesting to hear GA talking about that depth (interviewed after Fulham U-21 loss?) in relation to the January window, saying there would be no place fillers and some may have to go out on loan to make way for higher quality replacements.
>
That sounds exciting.
Parker probably needs a loan somewhere. He might not even be involved if we were to reach the 2nd round game, as Gaz will want to make sure there's no whiff of complacency.
I wonder who else?
The young lad whose name I keep forgetting who played right back v MK.
Maybe even Pattison?
Gardiner -Smith, I'm pretty sure he'll go out on loan in January. I expect Parker and Pattinson will depend on who we could get in, and in Parker's case whether we can keep Rolando
@chairboyscentral said:
Ok, I retrieved some data. Average finishing position of newly promoted Champ teams between 09/10 and 18/19: 14.5. Average position of newly promoted L1 teams since 10/11 (it doesn't go back quite as far): 11.9.
Newly promoted Champ teams relegated in first season since 10/11: 5 (6 since 08/09)
Newly promoted L1 teams relegated in first season since 10/11: 3
I know one of the guys off NTT20 is looking into the L1-Championship gap at the moment, so hopefully there'll be some more up-to-date stuff soon.
Those stats don't exactly back up your original hypothesis do they?
@chairboyscentral said:
Ok, I retrieved some data. Average finishing position of newly promoted Champ teams between 09/10 and 18/19: 14.5. Average position of newly promoted L1 teams since 10/11 (it doesn't go back quite as far): 11.9.
Newly promoted Champ teams relegated in first season since 10/11: 5 (6 since 08/09)
Newly promoted L1 teams relegated in first season since 10/11: 3
I know one of the guys off NTT20 is looking into the L1-Championship gap at the moment, so hopefully there'll be some more up-to-date stuff soon.
Those stats don't exactly back up your original hypothesis do they?
Kind of does, you're almost twice as likely to come straight back down from those numbers
Obviously the data set isn't big enough, and never can be really with the everchanging strengths of the leagues.
This squad really has got quality all the way through it. Interesting to hear GA talking about that depth (interviewed after Fulham U-21 loss?) in relation to the January window, saying there would be no place fillers and some may have to go out on loan to make way for higher quality replacements.
>
That sounds exciting.
Parker probably needs a loan somewhere. He might not even be involved if we were to reach the 2nd round game, as Gaz will want to make sure there's no whiff of complacency.
I wonder who else?
The young lad whose name I keep forgetting who played right back v MK.
Maybe even Pattison?
Gardiner -Smith, I'm pretty sure he'll go out on loan in January. I expect Parker and Pattinson will depend on who we could get in, and in Parker's case whether we can keep Rolando
Yep, good point.
Arrons is certainly no given to stay on. And the cynical part of me wonders if that recent interview was a bit of an interest stirring up piece.
If Smyth and Fred can stay fit though, we could probably do well without him though, but as we're 3 1/2months in, and they've probably played about 40% and 10% of the games respectively, that is no given.
Until Jan, but I imagine we'll try and offload him permanently then - although he's not getting into the Stevenage team apart from cameos and in the Trophy.
@chairboyscentral said:
Until Jan, but I imagine we'll try and offload him permanently then - although he's not getting into the Stevenage team apart from cameos and in the Trophy.
Like with El Abd, it does seem a fair drop off to not be able to get into what I presume is still a lowly league 2 outfit (haven't checked the table since they were bottom when playing us)
Interesting to see people on here talking now of ‘if we go up to the Championship’ without a qualifying statement to the effect it will never happen and a shake of the head at the preposterousness of the statement.
Be interesting to know when the change was from just dreaming it was possible to genuinely believing it was. Sunderland?
Comments
If you are going to tell me this is based on anyyhing other than pure guesswork I'd be impressed. Barring each teams elite players I'd say the jump is pretty small
Both good players. Perhaps McCarthy had slightly more goal threat but the bonus with Grimmer is that he has slipped in expertly and there have no been raucous complaints about McCarthy going. (Season not over yet I know.)
McCarthy could cover as a central defender as well.
It's not based on guesswork at all. Very few teams come up from this division and thrive in the Championship straight away, whereas plenty coming up from League Two to League One do. Ok, maybe it's not "twice the step up", but it's a lot bigger. PL to Championship is the biggest gap, followed by Champ to L1, followed by L1 to L2.
From what I've seen so far, Grimmer is better defensively than McCarthy - gets caught out of position less, which was McCarthy's one big weakness. His crossing is arguably just as good too. Perhaps McCarthy is more versatile, but even if you don't think Grimmer is a better RB, surely you think he's as good as?
Grimmer's final ball is far more productive than McCarthy's, of what ive seen so far, i prefer Jack Grimmer as the more complete fullback/wingback.
I reckon Norwich, Southampton and Shef U have all had back to back promotions from league 1 to prem in recent years. Luton and burton have done league 2 to champ, so just as much success for league 1 promoted teams last 10 years or so
There were a fair few of us, although the 'box office' said it was all unreserved and no attempts at segregation.
Earlier in the game matey did take a clearance smack in the face, which necessitated a quick examination from the trainer.
I think Sheffield United took two seasons. Rotherham also did back-to-back from League Two, and various others have come close - I'm sure Stevenage finished in the League One play-offs in their first season, and possibly Crawley too? That's not the only measure anyway; there's a visible difference in quality even just watching a Championship game after a League One game. Ultimately, though, in most cases, the key is money and resources - Burton would never have been able to get close to managing what Southampton and Norwich did.
There's a definite jump to the championship, I've read and heard former players say it, in particular that every player is an "athlete" in the championship. Can see the difference watching games on TV, more pace all over the pitch. Biggest difference I've seen between league 1 and 2 has been finishing, less howlers and teams generally have bigger squads so you don't face as many teams down to the bare bones of their squad
Weren't we the last team to get relegated straight back to League Two? In that time, I can think of quite a few teams to have done the same from the Championship.
Perhaps I ahve not been around long enough but perhaps one of the long serving stattos can help when I ask...when was the last time the problems to be faced once promoted to the second tier was actively being discussed on the Gasroom?
Ok, I retrieved some data. Average finishing position of newly promoted Champ teams between 09/10 and 18/19: 14.5. Average position of newly promoted L1 teams since 10/11 (it doesn't go back quite as far): 11.9.
Newly promoted Champ teams relegated in first season since 10/11: 5 (6 since 08/09)
Newly promoted L1 teams relegated in first season since 10/11: 3
I know one of the guys off NTT20 is looking into the L1-Championship gap at the moment, so hopefully there'll be some more up-to-date stuff soon.
When we were in league two we were told the> @chairboyscentral said:
Possibly. Certainly no team were relegated straight back to league two in the four years before we came up
Our two goals were hit with venom and spare a thought for Samulels' effort. Gazzalike flick over the defender to slam it onto the underside of the bar. Smyth was electric with his ball carrying trickery...
This squad really has got quality all the way through it. Interesting to hear GA talking about that depth (interviewed after Fulham U-21 loss?) in relation to the January window, saying there would be no place fillers and some may have to go out on loan to make way for higher quality replacements.
Looking at our January fixtures we may need some fresh legs, although our strikers coming back from injury now should get enough minutes under their belts each to be firing by then. Do we have enough rotation in the other two thirds to give ourselves the best chance of not repeating last season's form after the turn of the year?
>
That sounds exciting.
Parker probably needs a loan somewhere. He might not even be involved if we were to reach the 2nd round game, as Gaz will want to make sure there's no whiff of complacency.
I wonder who else?
The young lad whose name I keep forgetting who played right back v MK.
Maybe even Pattison?
Gardiner Smith.
I don't think we can afford to be loaning many players out yet. JGS quite possibly will be, and Parker at a push, but I can't see any others. Our squad is still small compared to even the likes of Tranmere!
. > @Malone said:
Gardiner -Smith, I'm pretty sure he'll go out on loan in January. I expect Parker and Pattinson will depend on who we could get in, and in Parker's case whether we can keep Rolando
Those stats don't exactly back up your original hypothesis do they?
Kind of does, you're almost twice as likely to come straight back down from those numbers
Obviously the data set isn't big enough, and never can be really with the everchanging strengths of the leagues.
I'll go with what the players say.
Yep, good point.
Arrons is certainly no given to stay on. And the cynical part of me wonders if that recent interview was a bit of an interest stirring up piece.
If Smyth and Fred can stay fit though, we could probably do well without him though, but as we're 3 1/2months in, and they've probably played about 40% and 10% of the games respectively, that is no given.
Don’t we still have CMS on our books? Is his a Jan or full season loan ?
Until Jan, but I imagine we'll try and offload him permanently then - although he's not getting into the Stevenage team apart from cameos and in the Trophy.
Like with El Abd, it does seem a fair drop off to not be able to get into what I presume is still a lowly league 2 outfit (haven't checked the table since they were bottom when playing us)
They're 23rd but only on GD
Interesting to see people on here talking now of ‘if we go up to the Championship’ without a qualifying statement to the effect it will never happen and a shake of the head at the preposterousness of the statement.
Be interesting to know when the change was from just dreaming it was possible to genuinely believing it was. Sunderland?
Rotherham for me
Peterborough