@Username During this whole discussion you've not given me one reason to reduce my anger about these morons one little bit. If anything your blame game of others makes me more angry.
Seems now you can't take as much stick as you thought you could.
And who says it's only those standing in that area that are at risk?
What about the innocent kid / adult / OAP just walking along the front of the terrace to take a leak / buy a cup of tea / leave early?
How do they avoid becoming involved in your little goal celebration @username?
Your right to do whatever the hell you like and cause whatever chaos you like ends the moment it impacts me or anyone else.
If you don't understand that it just shows how immature your are and how much more you and the others need to grow up.
@Right_in_the_Middle said: @Username During this whole discussion you've not given me one reason to reduce my anger about these morons one little bit. If anything your blame game of others makes me more angry.
Seems now you can't take as much stick as you thought you could.
I'm not trying to reduce your anger, you're clearly a bitter and angry person and that's your own problem.
And what stick? I very rarely ever stand at the front or centre so it won't affect me, I'm just saying it won't work. Anyone willing to call a hundreds morons because they celebrate a goal differently to them isn't someone who's opinion I could care any less about.
Yes there are a couple of complete idiots at the front who most of the terrace know, yes they should be dealt with, that doesn't mean zoning off a huge portion of the terrace and trying to clamp down on something that will happen regardless.
I have to stand up for @Username here against the barrage charging down the terrace (figuratively) towards him. Many contributions here reek of controlling the many because of the few. When I take my kids to AP we do not go on the terrace for exactly this reason. We have a family stand ffs and if a guardian chooses to be on the terrace with their charge anyway they should guard them.
The whole "think about the children" brigade need to get a grip on reality. Football is not a non contact sport, neither is terrace viewing.
@NorsQuarters said:
I have to stand up for @Username here against the barrage charging down the terrace (figuratively) towards him. Many contributions here reek of controlling the many because of the few. When I take my kids to AP we do not go on the terrace for exactly this reason. We have a family stand ffs and if a guardian chooses to be on the terrace with their charge anyway they should guard them.
The whole "think about the children" brigade need to get a grip on reality. Football is not a non contact sport, neither is terrace viewing.
@Twizz said:
And who says it's only those standing in that area that are at risk?
What about the innocent kid / adult / OAP just walking along the front of the terrace to take a leak / buy a cup of tea / leave early?
How do they avoid becoming involved in your little goal celebration @username?
Your right to do whatever the hell you like and cause whatever chaos you like ends the moment it impacts me or anyone else.
If you don't understand that it just shows how immature your are and how much more you and the others need to grow up.
I've been on the terrace for 20 years or so and have managed to avoid ever being caught in the melee at the front after a goal. People are making it out that there's a gauntlet to run for 90 minutes.
Clamp down on the couple of kids that are overly aggressive (and I think the worst offenders are new this season), tell people to not stand at the front behind the goal unless they're willing to be boisterous and make an announcement banning the running along the length of the terrace and keep it confined to a place where the "morons" can have fun amongst themselves. 99% of the guys do make an effort to not knock into people not in their group and they know if they do they're just bringing trouble on themselves.
I've been on a terrace 100s of times and never been bundled into, and I've stood in all manner of different areas, including the front.
So let's not pretend this "it's always happened" nonsense is true, it hasn't, not at Adams Park.
It seems to have been a fairly recent years thing, and now it's finally reaching a point where they've had to act. Medium to long term, you'll simply see people banned, the safety certificate reducing the numbers allowed, or even the dreaded all seater end.
At least it's taken the attention away from the tedious drum discussion!
So let's not pretend this "it's always happened" nonsense is true, it hasn't, not at Adams Park.
It seems to have been a fairly recent years thing, and now it's finally reaching a point where they've had to act.
I'm surprising myself a little here, but I'm siding with @Username - who I think is arguing his case with maturity and good humour. Just because something was not done a generation ago does not mean it can't be done now. Language mutates, morals mutate - we're even seeing gender mutate. Why shouldn't the behaviour of the terrace mutate as well?
We are quick to complain when there's no atmosphere at the ground yet as soon as a drum is banged or a limb rushes (have I got the parlance right or do I need to mutate it some more?) we start moaning that it's not the sort of atmosphere we're comfortable with. Enough! The whole point of the next generation is to shake us out of our comfort zone, to challenge the rules until they mutate as well.
Of course, there are limits, and that limit has to include the safety of others. So here's a suggestion. Don't use this new yellow box as an exclusion zone. Inverse it and use it as an acceptable rushing zone - Wycombe's mosh pit, if you will. Those who want to enjoy the terrace in safety can move elsewhere, none of us have set positions there (and I speak as a terrace dweller for some generations). Those who want to rush can do so, safe in the knowledge that the only limbs they'll break will be their own or those of their consiglieres.
@NorsQuarters said:
I have to stand up for @Username here against the barrage charging down the terrace (figuratively) towards him. Many contributions here reek of controlling the many because of the few. When I take my kids to AP we do not go on the terrace for exactly this reason. We have a family stand ffs and if a guardian chooses to be on the terrace with their charge anyway they should guard them.
The whole "think about the children" brigade need to get a grip on reality. Football is not a non contact sport, neither is terrace viewing.
Let the roast begin.
You've gone further than I would with your second paragraph, but the first is in line with me. When I was a kid, I went where my dad told me, if it was at a ground with a terrace, that would be at the back, with him.
Would one put a child in the front row at a metal gig?
@eric_plant said:
You're really working hard to defend people's right to injure young kids aren't you?
No that shouldn't happen, and things do need to change to stop that happening. This isn't that change.
It literally is
Can you think of a better way of ensuring more people rush to the front after a goal than painting it yellow, stopping people going in there and then the constant arguments that will obviously ensue throughout the game? I can't.
I can see them trying to implement it during the Sunderland game with an absolutely packed terrace could cause some really unsavoury scenes - and it doesn't even matter if you think that the people in the middle should just put up and shut up, I'm saying what is realistically going to happen, and there were so many better ways to deal with it than drawing a yellow battle line in the sand.
Yeah, a better solution would be for 20 somethings in shit tracksuits to stop barging into kids because they think it looks good on youtube
Since they can't be trusted to do that then other measures have to be taken
You know the phrase "if you're in a hole, stop digging?". How about "if you're in an argument where you're constantly having to defend adults who hurt kids, you might be on the wrong side of it"
I'm surprising myself a little here, but I'm siding with @Username - who I think is arguing his case with maturity and good humour. Just because something was not done a generation ago does not mean it can't be done now. Language mutates, morals mutate - we're even seeing gender mutate. Why shouldn't the behaviour of the terrace mutate as well?
We are quick to complain when there's no atmosphere at the ground yet as soon as a drum is banged or a limb rushes (have I got the parlance right or do I need to mutate it some more?) we start moaning that it's not the sort of atmosphere we're comfortable with. Enough! The whole point of the next generation is to shake us out of our comfort zone, to challenge the rules until they mutate as well.
A drum by all means, boozed up goons all hooning around, perhaps not.
@eric_plant said:
Yeah, a better solution would be for 20 somethings in shit tracksuits to stop barging into kids because they think it looks good on youtube
Since they can't be trusted to do that then other measures have to be taken
You know the phrase "if you're in a hole, stop digging?". How about "if you're in an argument where you're constantly having to defend adults who hurt kids, you might be on the wrong side of it"
You post a lot of interesting things on here, but your incredible superiority complex is tiresome.
I've not said hurting anyone is acceptable anywhere.
@Username , this isn't really my fight. Can I just ask a couple of polite questions.
1) Can I ask your view on whether lads who go every week and prefer to stand are entitled to stand at say Wembley even though it restricts the view of say an elderly gentleman a few rows back who is not physically capable of standing
2) When I was a lad (back in about 1883) , my culture was to enjoy myself as much as possible BUT if I looked around and saw that my actions in enjoying myself would hurt someone else, I would moderate my behaviour (enjoy myself a little less) so as not to result in another person enjoying himself a lot less. Do you have a view on why that culture has changed. The younger generation are better than my generation in lots of ways but in this one I think they have it wrong.
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
Just out of interest @Username what age were you when first strode out on to the terrace?
First time on a terrace full stop, younger than I can remember.
First time I went in on my own, guess 13/14, with plenty of instructions on where to go.
First time being near the "lively" group or at the front would have probably been 16?
So what age are you suggesting setting as the lower limit for the Valley terrace so the fun bunch can run around and film themselves.
Completely depends on the child, where they're stood, who they're with etc. Unaccompanied- 14?
But as I said before, some common sense / advice from parents on where to stand makes all the difference. There'd be no problem having toddlers at the back corners, but children and mobile crowds of adults generally don't mix.
@DevC said: @Username , this isn't really my fight. Can I just ask a couple of polite questions.
1) Can I ask your view on whether lads who go every week and prefer to stand are entitled to stand at say Wembley even though it restricts the view of say an elderly gentleman a few rows back who is not physically capable of standing
2) When I was a lad (back in about 1883) , my culture was to enjoy myself as much as possible BUT if I looked around and saw that my actions in enjoying myself would hurt someone else, I would moderate my behaviour (enjoy myself a little less) so as not to result in another person enjoying himself a lot less. Do you have a view on why that culture has changed. The younger generation are better than my generation in lots of ways but in this one I think they have it wrong.
1) No, tickets should be sold in sections to please everyone. At say, Wembley, there's hardly a limit on space. In fact for almost every game there's plenty of space to do this.
2) Yes, I would, and that works both ways. I don't go ballistic in my current position on the terrace as there's plenty of older people around, equally, if I'm not going to go nuts for a goal, or I'm not able to look after myself (I was on crutches for a while during one of my more regular front of terrace seasons), then I wouldn'tand didn't stand in that area as I would be part of problem - (note: notTHE problem)
Despite what a fair few of you would like to think, the guys would celebrate differently and I would be stopping them celebrating how they wanted - so I stood elsewhere so I didn't negatively impact their day or put myself into a more dangerous situation needlessly and knowingly.
I'm not old, but that seems like old fashioned common sense
1) Realistically Wembley, an all-seater stadium, is not going to designate certain areas as standing sections. As I recall there wasn't a huge degree of choice exactly where to sit. In my area this exact situation occurred.
this is not a Wycombe specific issue - it happens at other clubs too.
I would agree with you that it works both ways - where it would be easy for the elderly gentleman and the young lads to both get their wish, each has a responsibility to the other. Where this is not possible (or reasonable though) surely it is the responsibility of the lads to sacrifice a bit of their enjoyment to avoid another losing a lot of theirs. Agree?
2) yes I agree it does work both ways. We seem as a society to be losing our ability to consider others needs and sometimes put them above our own. it doesn't seem unreasonable to me for kids to stand behind the goal and expect to be safe. Either way whether you think they should be there or not, IF THEY ARE THERE should you really not moderate your behaviour to keep them safe.
I do not go on the terrace, and it is terrible that these accidents happen, but I do know (although my memories may be dimmed a little) that young people at football matches and rock concerts have a long tradition of bouncing about a bit sometimes without due care and attention. Until we are back on the Rye playing in front of 12 people and a dog I doubt that it is going to change any time soon.
Classic thread derailing @DevC . Doesn't dissapoint and adding an 'it's not my fight' is poetry. Why do you want to move the discussion away from the thread content all the time?
Seems to me @Username you are putting in alot of rules and guidance for people who want to stand safely at football when surely just stopping the idiots causing the problem on the first place is a much better option.
Comments
Just imagine the outrage on here if someone on the Facebook group said they'd pay to watch a survival show of the "coffin dodgers" in the Frank Adams.
@Username During this whole discussion you've not given me one reason to reduce my anger about these morons one little bit. If anything your blame game of others makes me more angry.
Seems now you can't take as much stick as you thought you could.
And who says it's only those standing in that area that are at risk?
What about the innocent kid / adult / OAP just walking along the front of the terrace to take a leak / buy a cup of tea / leave early?
How do they avoid becoming involved in your little goal celebration @username?
Your right to do whatever the hell you like and cause whatever chaos you like ends the moment it impacts me or anyone else.
If you don't understand that it just shows how immature your are and how much more you and the others need to grow up.
It literally is
I'm not trying to reduce your anger, you're clearly a bitter and angry person and that's your own problem.
And what stick? I very rarely ever stand at the front or centre so it won't affect me, I'm just saying it won't work. Anyone willing to call a hundreds morons because they celebrate a goal differently to them isn't someone who's opinion I could care any less about.
Yes there are a couple of complete idiots at the front who most of the terrace know, yes they should be dealt with, that doesn't mean zoning off a huge portion of the terrace and trying to clamp down on something that will happen regardless.
I have to stand up for @Username here against the barrage charging down the terrace (figuratively) towards him. Many contributions here reek of controlling the many because of the few. When I take my kids to AP we do not go on the terrace for exactly this reason. We have a family stand ffs and if a guardian chooses to be on the terrace with their charge anyway they should guard them.
The whole "think about the children" brigade need to get a grip on reality. Football is not a non contact sport, neither is terrace viewing.
Let the roast begin.
Jesus wept
I've been on the terrace for 20 years or so and have managed to avoid ever being caught in the melee at the front after a goal. People are making it out that there's a gauntlet to run for 90 minutes.
Clamp down on the couple of kids that are overly aggressive (and I think the worst offenders are new this season), tell people to not stand at the front behind the goal unless they're willing to be boisterous and make an announcement banning the running along the length of the terrace and keep it confined to a place where the "morons" can have fun amongst themselves. 99% of the guys do make an effort to not knock into people not in their group and they know if they do they're just bringing trouble on themselves.
Ignore this, delete isn't working!
I've been on a terrace 100s of times and never been bundled into, and I've stood in all manner of different areas, including the front.
So let's not pretend this "it's always happened" nonsense is true, it hasn't, not at Adams Park.
It seems to have been a fairly recent years thing, and now it's finally reaching a point where they've had to act. Medium to long term, you'll simply see people banned, the safety certificate reducing the numbers allowed, or even the dreaded all seater end.
At least it's taken the attention away from the tedious drum discussion!
It's all the winning....we're not used to it!
I'm surprising myself a little here, but I'm siding with @Username - who I think is arguing his case with maturity and good humour. Just because something was not done a generation ago does not mean it can't be done now. Language mutates, morals mutate - we're even seeing gender mutate. Why shouldn't the behaviour of the terrace mutate as well?
We are quick to complain when there's no atmosphere at the ground yet as soon as a drum is banged or a limb rushes (have I got the parlance right or do I need to mutate it some more?) we start moaning that it's not the sort of atmosphere we're comfortable with. Enough! The whole point of the next generation is to shake us out of our comfort zone, to challenge the rules until they mutate as well.
Of course, there are limits, and that limit has to include the safety of others. So here's a suggestion. Don't use this new yellow box as an exclusion zone. Inverse it and use it as an acceptable rushing zone - Wycombe's mosh pit, if you will. Those who want to enjoy the terrace in safety can move elsewhere, none of us have set positions there (and I speak as a terrace dweller for some generations). Those who want to rush can do so, safe in the knowledge that the only limbs they'll break will be their own or those of their consiglieres.
You've gone further than I would with your second paragraph, but the first is in line with me. When I was a kid, I went where my dad told me, if it was at a ground with a terrace, that would be at the back, with him.
Would one put a child in the front row at a metal gig?
Can you think of a better way of ensuring more people rush to the front after a goal than painting it yellow, stopping people going in there and then the constant arguments that will obviously ensue throughout the game? I can't.
I can see them trying to implement it during the Sunderland game with an absolutely packed terrace could cause some really unsavoury scenes - and it doesn't even matter if you think that the people in the middle should just put up and shut up, I'm saying what is realistically going to happen, and there were so many better ways to deal with it than drawing a yellow battle line in the sand.
At your argumentation I assume
Yeah, a better solution would be for 20 somethings in shit tracksuits to stop barging into kids because they think it looks good on youtube
Since they can't be trusted to do that then other measures have to be taken
You know the phrase "if you're in a hole, stop digging?". How about "if you're in an argument where you're constantly having to defend adults who hurt kids, you might be on the wrong side of it"
Is this really much deeper than "Be considerate to your fellow supporters"?
Just out of interest @Username what age were you when first strode out on to the terrace?
First time on a terrace full stop, younger than I can remember.
First time I went in on my own, guess 13/14, with plenty of instructions on where to go.
First time being near the "lively" group or at the front would have probably been 16?
@aloysius said:
A drum by all means, boozed up goons all hooning around, perhaps not.
You post a lot of interesting things on here, but your incredible superiority complex is tiresome.
I've not said hurting anyone is acceptable anywhere.
So what age are you suggesting setting as the lower limit for the Valley terrace so the fun bunch can run around and film themselves.
@Username , this isn't really my fight. Can I just ask a couple of polite questions.
1) Can I ask your view on whether lads who go every week and prefer to stand are entitled to stand at say Wembley even though it restricts the view of say an elderly gentleman a few rows back who is not physically capable of standing
2) When I was a lad (back in about 1883) , my culture was to enjoy myself as much as possible BUT if I looked around and saw that my actions in enjoying myself would hurt someone else, I would moderate my behaviour (enjoy myself a little less) so as not to result in another person enjoying himself a lot less. Do you have a view on why that culture has changed. The younger generation are better than my generation in lots of ways but in this one I think they have it wrong.
It's a looooong time to the next game isn't it?
Completely depends on the child, where they're stood, who they're with etc. Unaccompanied- 14?
But as I said before, some common sense / advice from parents on where to stand makes all the difference. There'd be no problem having toddlers at the back corners, but children and mobile crowds of adults generally don't mix.
1) No, tickets should be sold in sections to please everyone. At say, Wembley, there's hardly a limit on space. In fact for almost every game there's plenty of space to do this.
2) Yes, I would, and that works both ways. I don't go ballistic in my current position on the terrace as there's plenty of older people around, equally, if I'm not going to go nuts for a goal, or I'm not able to look after myself (I was on crutches for a while during one of my more regular front of terrace seasons), then I wouldn'tand didn't stand in that area as I would be part of problem - (note: notTHE problem)
Despite what a fair few of you would like to think, the guys would celebrate differently and I would be stopping them celebrating how they wanted - so I stood elsewhere so I didn't negatively impact their day or put myself into a more dangerous situation needlessly and knowingly.
I'm not old, but that seems like old fashioned common sense
Thanks @Username.
1) Realistically Wembley, an all-seater stadium, is not going to designate certain areas as standing sections. As I recall there wasn't a huge degree of choice exactly where to sit. In my area this exact situation occurred.
this is not a Wycombe specific issue - it happens at other clubs too.
I would agree with you that it works both ways - where it would be easy for the elderly gentleman and the young lads to both get their wish, each has a responsibility to the other. Where this is not possible (or reasonable though) surely it is the responsibility of the lads to sacrifice a bit of their enjoyment to avoid another losing a lot of theirs. Agree?
2) yes I agree it does work both ways. We seem as a society to be losing our ability to consider others needs and sometimes put them above our own. it doesn't seem unreasonable to me for kids to stand behind the goal and expect to be safe. Either way whether you think they should be there or not, IF THEY ARE THERE should you really not moderate your behaviour to keep them safe.
I do not go on the terrace, and it is terrible that these accidents happen, but I do know (although my memories may be dimmed a little) that young people at football matches and rock concerts have a long tradition of bouncing about a bit sometimes without due care and attention. Until we are back on the Rye playing in front of 12 people and a dog I doubt that it is going to change any time soon.
Classic thread derailing @DevC . Doesn't dissapoint and adding an 'it's not my fight' is poetry. Why do you want to move the discussion away from the thread content all the time?
Seems to me @Username you are putting in alot of rules and guidance for people who want to stand safely at football when surely just stopping the idiots causing the problem on the first place is a much better option.
I've tried to follow this thread but I have absolutely no idea what "limbs" means in the context of any of the rest of the discussion.