@Right_in_the_Middle said:
I must admit I am still really annoyed by the arrogance and lack of respect shown by those who are still intent on actions that could cause injury to others.
I'd love to see safe standing in grounds but these morons are taking us back decades in terms of fan behaviour.
If the area directly behind the goal was marked out preventing people from standing there it would solve the issue without taking away such a huge section of terrace.
That and / or a notice to inform people that the area right behind the goal is likely to be raucous so only stand there if you want to be involved, who loses there?
They haven't taken away a huge section, merely a few feet between the existing yellow-painted area on the ground floor and the barrier behind the first step of the terrace.
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
I must admit I am still really annoyed by the arrogance and lack of respect shown by those who are still intent on actions that could cause injury to others.
I'd love to see safe standing in grounds but these morons are taking us back decades in terms of fan behaviour.
If the area directly behind the goal was marked out preventing people from standing there it would solve the issue without taking away such a huge section of terrace.
That and / or a notice to inform people that the area right behind the goal is likely to be raucous so only stand there if you want to be involved, who loses there?
They haven't taken away a huge section, merely a few feet between the existing yellow-painted area on the ground floor and the barrier behind the first step of the terrace.
From the photos it looks like a pretty large section, far bigger than necessary, helpful or remotely realistic to police.
The Sunderland game is going to be very interesting, can easily see things turning sour which is not what we need or want for such a big game.
If the area directly behind the goal was marked out preventing people from standing there it would solve the issue without taking away such a huge section of terrace.
That and / or a notice to inform people that the area right behind the goal is likely to be raucous so only stand there if you want to be involved, who loses there?
Can't work out if you are being sarcastic or not.
In what world is the person stood innocently watching a football match the problem when people want to run around on the are they arr stood. It sounds like a school disco.
There should be no need for any closed off areas. People just need to respect others and stop making excuses why a child left a game with damaged ribs.
If the area directly behind the goal was marked out preventing people from standing there it would solve the issue without taking away such a huge section of terrace.
That and / or a notice to inform people that the area right behind the goal is likely to be raucous so only stand there if you want to be involved, who loses there?
Can't work out if you are being sarcastic or not.
In what world is the person stood innocently watching a football match the problem when people want to run around on the are they arr stood. It sounds like a school disco.
There should be no need for any closed off areas. People just need to respect others and stop making excuses why a child left a game with damaged ribs.
@Username said:
Why do people who don't want to jump around like a lunatic after a goal, choose to stand in the one place they know it's likely to happen? That's precisely the reason I choose not to stand there most weeks, it's not like there's a lack of alternatives.
Or, people could just not act like pricks and hurt kids
@Username said:
Why do people who don't want to jump around like a lunatic after a goal, choose to stand in the one place they know it's likely to happen? That's precisely the reason I choose not to stand there most weeks, it's not like there's a lack of alternatives.
People have been stood behind the goal against the fence for years (I don't know why, it must be a horrendously dreadful view of all but about 10% of the pitch).
Why should they have to move, because of this fairly recent trend of trying to make the area a mosh pit?
It's quite simple really, don't stand where you know things get lively if you can't look after yourself.
Anyone who's being overly aggressive and not just celebrating should be spoken to (and there's a few that merit that). The paint won't stop rushing, it will just move it onto the steps and cause arguments and more crowding, just add we're starting to fill the terrace more.
When I've been injured / on crutches/ or the usual reason of just not wanting to be involved I find it extremely easy to not be "rushed" by anyone... It's pretty simple, I don't stand right at the front in the middle.
@Username said:
It's quite simple really, don't stand where you know things get lively if you can't look after yourself.
Anyone who's being overly aggressive and not just celebrating should be spoken to (and there's a few that merit that). The paint won't stop rushing, it will just move it onto the steps and cause arguments and more crowding, just add we're starting to fill the terrace more.
When I've been injured / on crutches/ or the usual reason of just not wanting to be involved I find it extremely easy to not be "rushed" by anyone... It's pretty simple, I don't stand right at the front in the middle.
Do you tell young women not to wear short skirts when they go out as well?
@Username said:
It's quite simple really, don't stand where you know things get lively if you can't look after yourself.
Anyone who's being overly aggressive and not just celebrating should be spoken to (and there's a few that merit that). The paint won't stop rushing, it will just move it onto the steps and cause arguments and more crowding, just add we're starting to fill the terrace more.
When I've been injured / on crutches/ or the usual reason of just not wanting to be involved I find it extremely easy to not be "rushed" by anyone... It's pretty simple, I don't stand right at the front in the middle.
Do you tell young women not to wear short skirts when they go out as well?
That's such a stupid analogy, comparing celebrating wildly with being a rapist or sex pest.
What happens at music gigs?
No one is forcing anyone to stand in the one small section of the ground where this happens.
I fear it has always happened and always will...which is why we ended up with seated stadiums. In the past as a kid at footy you learned which angry, fighty people on the terrace to avoid and which areas were relatively safe or you had a pretty good idea you were going to get clobbered! I understand the club taking public steps to try and avoid it happening regularly but I'm not convinced it is going to make any real difference to be honest.
@Username said:
It's quite simple really, don't stand where you know things get lively if you can't look after yourself.
Anyone who's being overly aggressive and not just celebrating should be spoken to (and there's a few that merit that). The paint won't stop rushing, it will just move it onto the steps and cause arguments and more crowding, just add we're starting to fill the terrace more.
When I've been injured / on crutches/ or the usual reason of just not wanting to be involved I find it extremely easy to not be "rushed" by anyone... It's pretty simple, I don't stand right at the front in the middle.
Surely the whole point is that innocent people stand well away from those who they see as dangerous without realising these people see the whole terrace as some marauding battle ground.
Just out of interest how would you react if some charged you at some point in a game and knocked you over. After all it would just be for the 'bants'. They might break your arm or puncture a lung but hey it's just the way it is.
You make me so angry and ashamed of this element of our support base. If it were me I'd ban anyone assaulting a child in this way. After all what possible reason is this just what happens
No one is forcing anyone to stand in the one small section of the ground where this happens.
And who exactly is forcing fans to invade others' space to such an extent that young kids are getting hurt?
Young kids really shouldn't be on the terrace.
If fans were running into the family stand, or up to the back of the terrace to go mental I'd 100% agree, but it's an unwritten rule of the going to football that behind the goal on a terrace it's likely to get lively. Don't go in there if you don't want to be involved. I've never once been "accidentally" caught in a rush forward or over exuberant celebrations- I just don't stand in the one obvious area where it happens, just common sense.
Ban any individuals who are deliberately involving others / bystanders, and tell people not to stand in that area unless they're happy to join in.
@Username said:
It's quite simple really, don't stand where you know things get lively if you can't look after yourself.
Anyone who's being overly aggressive and not just celebrating should be spoken to (and there's a few that merit that). The paint won't stop rushing, it will just move it onto the steps and cause arguments and more crowding, just add we're starting to fill the terrace more.
When I've been injured / on crutches/ or the usual reason of just not wanting to be involved I find it extremely easy to not be "rushed" by anyone... It's pretty simple, I don't stand right at the front in the middle.
Surely the whole point is that innocent people stand well away from those who they see as dangerous without realising these people see the whole terrace as some marauding battle ground.
Just out of interest how would you react if some charged you at some point in a game and knocked you over. After all it would just be for the 'bants'. They might break your arm or puncture a lung but hey it's just the way it is.
You make me so angry and ashamed of this element of our support base. If it were me I'd ban anyone assaulting a child in this way. After all what possible reason is this just what happens
You've created another completely different scenario, no one is deliberately running and charging people willy nilly anywhere in the terrace at a random point in the game.
There's sometimes a rush towards the goal after we score to get closer to the players or to celebrate with other friends in the terrace.
People enjoy football in different ways, some like to jump around like a madman, other like to politely clap before tucking into their dry lunch from a high horse while tutting at their fellow fans. Id call for anyone going up to the Frank Adams and going absolutely mad to be banned /moved, but it's part of what makes the terrace and why many people go to football full stop.
@Username You've said at least twice now that directly behind the goal is the only area where this happens - that's simply not true. After Wheeler scored his late winner against MK Dons he ran to the left hand side of the terrace and everyone charged over that side, injuring a fan who had been standing at the front down there (roughly around the edge of the penalty area). The lad was getting attended to by the medical team for some time afterwards - it all happened right in front of me.
What you're really saying is that no one should be allowed to stand anywhere along the front barrier of the terrace, so that the crowd should be given free reign to charge about wherever they like after we score. Absolute madness.
I do see both sides of the argument, but certainly have much less sympathy for people who want to fling themselves around dangerously without any consideration of others.
Causing injury to fellow spectators is never acceptable, no matter how important the goal is, or how much of a super-fan you think you are.
On the flip-side though, if you are old, infirm, a young child, or disabled, the free standing area directly in front of the goal is the worst place you could be in terms of safety, comfort (and view!).
The terrace is more raucous than any other part of the ground. I feel the atmosphere would be much, much poorer at AP if we attempt to sanitise it too much. Again, I'm not ever condoning kids getting their ribs broken by over exuberant idiots.
Saying that, if I was the parent of a young child, I definitely wouldn't let them stand there. It would be my responsibility as a parent to make sure my child doesn't get put into situations like that, just as much as it is the responsibility of some lad after a few pints to not be too rough in their celebrations.
There should IMO be a place in the ground where younger supporters can (within acceptable limits) enjoy football a little more vigorously. If people want to jump around a bit at the front, I think they should be allowed to.
But measures should be put in place to stop this reaching dangerous levels e.g. people getting crushed and seriously hurt. And that's exactly what the club has done.
The club hasn't outright banned people from having a good natured jig at the front of the terrace, they've just put some trial measures in place to prevent it getting too dangerous.
They might work, they might not. It will take a bit of trial and error to get it right.
Not sure how well this initiative will work but the "we'll do what we like, everyone should get out the way" brigade will get that grand old terrace pulled down soon enough and then they won't have a choice. Ground regulations and response to injuries aren't something you follow up on only if it suits you.
@Last_Quarter said: @Username You've said at least twice now that directly behind the goal is the only area where this happens - that's simply not true. After Wheeler scored his late winner against MK Dons he ran to the left hand side of the terrace and everyone charged over that side, injuring a fan who had been standing at the front down there (roughly around the edge of the penalty area). The lad was getting attended to by the medical team for some time afterwards - it all happened right in front of me.
What you're really saying is that no one should be allowed to stand anywhere along the front barrier of the terrace, so that the crowd should be given free reign to charge about wherever they like after we score. Absolute madness.
I wasn't aware that happened and that is a bigger problem especially near 90minutes as everyone moves towards the exit.
99% of the time it is behind the goal, if there was a central area marked out, and it made clear that "rushing" outside of that isn't tolerated (and action taken against anyone who does), maybe that could satisfy the people who want to go to the front and keep everyone else safe?
You say people who don't fancy a UFC experience should move somewhere else. This totally ignores the fact they might want to stand at a game and this is the only area.
I say stop acting like a moron and respect the space around people you don't know. If you can't then I would ban you.
An example I keep thinking of is a Prodigy gig I was at a few years ago. The mosh pit was too aggresive and the band stopped until those responsible were moved. This type of behaviour is not acceptable under any circumstances. There is no unwritten terrace rule.
Strangely...the pictures in the gallery after a victory are almost all of fans at the front of the terrace yelling into the camera! It is a sad fact of life that we cannot remove all dangers and all possibility of danger. The club is making an effort but the fact remains that people need to be careful where they stand and beered up/red bulled up hoodies and old school true fans need to take care when they go mental. I assume urinating down the back of the fan in front is no longer an option? Those were the days...
The club have introduced a large section of netting behind the practice goals to stop people on the terraces being injured by stray shots; given the netting is doing nothing during games, maybe it could be used to enclose the limbs brigade to prevent charges or stray elbows? A bit like the safety netting around trampolines.
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
You say people who don't fancy a UFC experience should move somewhere else. This totally ignores the fact they might want to stand at a game and this is the only area.
I say stop acting like a moron and respect the space around people you don't know. If you can't then I would ban you.
An example I keep thinking of is a Prodigy gig I was at a few years ago. The mosh pit was too aggresive and the band stopped until those responsible were moved. This type of behaviour is not acceptable under any circumstances. There is no unwritten terrace rule.
Again with the ridiculous hyperbole, what I've seen on the terrace is nothing like UFC or even a normal mosh pit, anyone taking it to that extreme should be banned.
If you don't think there are unwritten rules on the terrace then I don't really know what to say...I strongly suspect you're just lying there.
Can we not build a "moron pit", cage it & let all the true fans, who pay their ten quid which covers the players wages & club expenses, cause carnage amongst themselves? BTW, if any are injured & require any medical help, they pay for it themselves.
Maybe all the "Limbs" artists should instead all stand at the front to one side to begin with. Then there's no sprinting across terraces clattering anyone in their wake.
As at away games when you see these people, you then do know to avoid them.
Does anyone ever consider that some people go at the front in a bid to avoid some of the characters we have on the terrace anyway?
Comments
They haven't taken away a huge section, merely a few feet between the existing yellow-painted area on the ground floor and the barrier behind the first step of the terrace.
From the photos it looks like a pretty large section, far bigger than necessary, helpful or remotely realistic to police.
The Sunderland game is going to be very interesting, can easily see things turning sour which is not what we need or want for such a big game.
Can't work out if you are being sarcastic or not.
In what world is the person stood innocently watching a football match the problem when people want to run around on the are they arr stood. It sounds like a school disco.
There should be no need for any closed off areas. People just need to respect others and stop making excuses why a child left a game with damaged ribs.
You're missing the point deliberately
Or, people could just not act like pricks and hurt kids
People have been stood behind the goal against the fence for years (I don't know why, it must be a horrendously dreadful view of all but about 10% of the pitch).
Why should they have to move, because of this fairly recent trend of trying to make the area a mosh pit?
It's quite simple really, don't stand where you know things get lively if you can't look after yourself.
Anyone who's being overly aggressive and not just celebrating should be spoken to (and there's a few that merit that). The paint won't stop rushing, it will just move it onto the steps and cause arguments and more crowding, just add we're starting to fill the terrace more.
When I've been injured / on crutches/ or the usual reason of just not wanting to be involved I find it extremely easy to not be "rushed" by anyone... It's pretty simple, I don't stand right at the front in the middle.
Do you tell young women not to wear short skirts when they go out as well?
It's certainly a strange victim blaming sort of standpoint.
Right at the time we're on this drive to improve the numbers.
This sort of nonsense doesn't help anything.
That's such a stupid analogy, comparing celebrating wildly with being a rapist or sex pest.
What happens at music gigs?
No one is forcing anyone to stand in the one small section of the ground where this happens.
And who exactly is forcing fans to invade others' space to such an extent that young kids are getting hurt?
I fear it has always happened and always will...which is why we ended up with seated stadiums. In the past as a kid at footy you learned which angry, fighty people on the terrace to avoid and which areas were relatively safe or you had a pretty good idea you were going to get clobbered! I understand the club taking public steps to try and avoid it happening regularly but I'm not convinced it is going to make any real difference to be honest.
Surely the whole point is that innocent people stand well away from those who they see as dangerous without realising these people see the whole terrace as some marauding battle ground.
Just out of interest how would you react if some charged you at some point in a game and knocked you over. After all it would just be for the 'bants'. They might break your arm or puncture a lung but hey it's just the way it is.
You make me so angry and ashamed of this element of our support base. If it were me I'd ban anyone assaulting a child in this way. After all what possible reason is this just what happens
Young kids really shouldn't be on the terrace.
If fans were running into the family stand, or up to the back of the terrace to go mental I'd 100% agree, but it's an unwritten rule of the going to football that behind the goal on a terrace it's likely to get lively. Don't go in there if you don't want to be involved. I've never once been "accidentally" caught in a rush forward or over exuberant celebrations- I just don't stand in the one obvious area where it happens, just common sense.
Ban any individuals who are deliberately involving others / bystanders, and tell people not to stand in that area unless they're happy to join in.
Astonishing stuff from @Username here. Should we start having designated "Limbs Zones"?
You're really working hard to defend people's right to injure young kids aren't you?
You've created another completely different scenario, no one is deliberately running and charging people willy nilly anywhere in the terrace at a random point in the game.
There's sometimes a rush towards the goal after we score to get closer to the players or to celebrate with other friends in the terrace.
People enjoy football in different ways, some like to jump around like a madman, other like to politely clap before tucking into their dry lunch from a high horse while tutting at their fellow fans. Id call for anyone going up to the Frank Adams and going absolutely mad to be banned /moved, but it's part of what makes the terrace and why many people go to football full stop.
No that shouldn't happen, and things do need to change to stop that happening. This isn't that change.
@Username You've said at least twice now that directly behind the goal is the only area where this happens - that's simply not true. After Wheeler scored his late winner against MK Dons he ran to the left hand side of the terrace and everyone charged over that side, injuring a fan who had been standing at the front down there (roughly around the edge of the penalty area). The lad was getting attended to by the medical team for some time afterwards - it all happened right in front of me.
What you're really saying is that no one should be allowed to stand anywhere along the front barrier of the terrace, so that the crowd should be given free reign to charge about wherever they like after we score. Absolute madness.
I do see both sides of the argument, but certainly have much less sympathy for people who want to fling themselves around dangerously without any consideration of others.
Causing injury to fellow spectators is never acceptable, no matter how important the goal is, or how much of a super-fan you think you are.
On the flip-side though, if you are old, infirm, a young child, or disabled, the free standing area directly in front of the goal is the worst place you could be in terms of safety, comfort (and view!).
The terrace is more raucous than any other part of the ground. I feel the atmosphere would be much, much poorer at AP if we attempt to sanitise it too much. Again, I'm not ever condoning kids getting their ribs broken by over exuberant idiots.
Saying that, if I was the parent of a young child, I definitely wouldn't let them stand there. It would be my responsibility as a parent to make sure my child doesn't get put into situations like that, just as much as it is the responsibility of some lad after a few pints to not be too rough in their celebrations.
There should IMO be a place in the ground where younger supporters can (within acceptable limits) enjoy football a little more vigorously. If people want to jump around a bit at the front, I think they should be allowed to.
But measures should be put in place to stop this reaching dangerous levels e.g. people getting crushed and seriously hurt. And that's exactly what the club has done.
The club hasn't outright banned people from having a good natured jig at the front of the terrace, they've just put some trial measures in place to prevent it getting too dangerous.
They might work, they might not. It will take a bit of trial and error to get it right.
Not sure how well this initiative will work but the "we'll do what we like, everyone should get out the way" brigade will get that grand old terrace pulled down soon enough and then they won't have a choice. Ground regulations and response to injuries aren't something you follow up on only if it suits you.
I wasn't aware that happened and that is a bigger problem especially near 90minutes as everyone moves towards the exit.
99% of the time it is behind the goal, if there was a central area marked out, and it made clear that "rushing" outside of that isn't tolerated (and action taken against anyone who does), maybe that could satisfy the people who want to go to the front and keep everyone else safe?
The current solution simply won't work
You say people who don't fancy a UFC experience should move somewhere else. This totally ignores the fact they might want to stand at a game and this is the only area.
I say stop acting like a moron and respect the space around people you don't know. If you can't then I would ban you.
An example I keep thinking of is a Prodigy gig I was at a few years ago. The mosh pit was too aggresive and the band stopped until those responsible were moved. This type of behaviour is not acceptable under any circumstances. There is no unwritten terrace rule.
Strangely...the pictures in the gallery after a victory are almost all of fans at the front of the terrace yelling into the camera! It is a sad fact of life that we cannot remove all dangers and all possibility of danger. The club is making an effort but the fact remains that people need to be careful where they stand and beered up/red bulled up hoodies and old school true fans need to take care when they go mental. I assume urinating down the back of the fan in front is no longer an option? Those were the days...
The club have introduced a large section of netting behind the practice goals to stop people on the terraces being injured by stray shots; given the netting is doing nothing during games, maybe it could be used to enclose the limbs brigade to prevent charges or stray elbows? A bit like the safety netting around trampolines.
Again with the ridiculous hyperbole, what I've seen on the terrace is nothing like UFC or even a normal mosh pit, anyone taking it to that extreme should be banned.
If you don't think there are unwritten rules on the terrace then I don't really know what to say...I strongly suspect you're just lying there.
Can we not build a "moron pit", cage it & let all the true fans, who pay their ten quid which covers the players wages & club expenses, cause carnage amongst themselves? BTW, if any are injured & require any medical help, they pay for it themselves.
Maybe all the "Limbs" artists should instead all stand at the front to one side to begin with. Then there's no sprinting across terraces clattering anyone in their wake.
As at away games when you see these people, you then do know to avoid them.
Does anyone ever consider that some people go at the front in a bid to avoid some of the characters we have on the terrace anyway?
I would pay to watch a Hunger Games style fight to the death on the terrace involving the marauding morons.
Half time entertainment @Right_in_the_Middle, good idea. ?