Of course it’s not @tom, but we’re way beyond that. And do you think Parker and JGS make more than CMS and El-Abd did? And Bean and Tyson must have been on a fair old whack too so it’s not too far-fetched to think we’re onlt slightly above last years budget.
I agree with your comments about it all feeling a bit hollow tho. Being in the Championship because we’re funded by an investor won’t be anything like as special as knowing that a 500 Club signing kept us in L1 or even L2.
It was my understanding that the vote would be earlyish October. @Tom, I am pretty neutral at the minute regarding Trevor Stroud. Some things he has got very wrong & some right. What I am pretty certain of is that you can't please everybody and it easy to be critical from a keyboard. If you listened to the answer, Trevor said along the lines of, "I honestly don't know". Thats not to say as a trust, the situation has not been discussed/nothing has been done.
What answers do you have to the situation.
@EwanHoosaami It's not my job to know, and of course only the board know all of the ins and outs of our current situation and refuse to divulge the information. Only they have the knowledge to come up with a solution
@floyd said:
Of course it’s not @tom, but we’re way beyond that. And do you think Parker and JGS make more than CMS and El-Abd did? And Bean and Tyson must have been on a fair old whack too so it’s not too far-fetched to think we’re onlt slightly above last years budget.
I agree with your comments about it all feeling a bit hollow tho. Being in the Championship because we’re funded by an investor won’t be anything like as special as knowing that a 500 Club signing kept us in L1 or even L2.
Am I right in saying the club lost £700k last season? And the thinking is that the investors are happy to cover these losses until sustainability can be achieved?
There was a lot of big picture talk about being debt free and sustainable. I assume all the details will be made known before the vote actually takes place.
Hard to see how anyone could vote against the investment now, barring an awful deal being put on the table. Unless some people believe the situation isn't as bad as is being made out. Surely it's as simple as save Wycombe Wanderers or let Wycombe Wanderers go to shit?
Also worrying if the average age in attendance was as high as has been suggested. You'd hope that the voters would encompass several generations.
@Glenactico said:
I share many of @Tom views and feel very divided in terms of which way to vote.
Interested in what could happen to nake you less divided. For me the Couhig's have run a great campaign so far but I still feel the 75% bar is just too high to get over. This because of voters trying to do the right thing and leaning towards staying as we are due to doubts about a new future.
The Couhig's plan to make each matchday an event that transcends lower League football and attracts people on this basis is laudable but unlikely to bear fruit. I can't think of a single club at any level in this country that achieves this.
So my question is, does the potential 9000+ fanbase exist? There's nothing wrong with raising standards with challenging targets but I would have more faith in the group if they weren't relying on a near sell out each fortnight to break even.
@eric_plant said:
What was the average age of the attendees do you think?
I reckon about 65
Nothing wrong with that of course, but we've got so many enthusiastic young supporters who go home and away, week in week out, and devote their social media output to talking about Wycombe. It's a shame that their enthusiasm can't be better harnessed, particularly when we're looking to the future of the club
@Tom said: @EwanHoosaami It's not my job to know, and of course only the board know all of the ins and outs of our current situation and refuse to divulge the information. Only they have the knowledge to come up with a solution
It isn’t your job, no. But as a fan and what is a fan owned club, you have/had the opportunity to put yourself and your ideas forward and be elected so that it could be your job.
I hold TS in no high regard. At all. But it’s mighty easy to snipe at the man stood above all others while sat behind a screen crying “its not my job, it’s his”.
The question is what could we all have done to make the fan owned model work? I include myself in that.
@TheDancingYak the secrecy that sounds the trust, makes it impossible to know what our current position is - therefore any ideas or suggestions are utterly pointless and meaningless. I dont live locally and therefore not in a position to have a more hands on involvement.
There is no clear idea how Mr Couhig plans to increase attendances - something which has proved impossible in the past. In my opinion he seems to think that the 'matchday experience' is crucial to this, however I would suggest it comes down to price and a general apathy in the town (which will not be solved within a couple of years).
Questions remain over the future of the club once Mr Couhig loses interest/realises he cant spin a profit, and who he decides to sell to - the Trust will have no say on this.
Why oh why has the trust taken out more and more debt over the past year, that we simply cannot afford. We were told we would have to cut our cloth accordingly this season, with a reduced wage bill. Fine- live within our means, everyone appreciates that and it was with a view to being sustainable. However, despite having absolutely no way of paying the money back, we have taken out massive loans from prospective new owners (again) - and seemingly continue to do so. This is a direct contradiction of their purpose to "Safeguard our heritage and promoting a successful and sustainable future."
@Tom said: @TheDancingYak the secrecy that sounds the trust, makes it impossible to know what our current position is - therefore any ideas or suggestions are utterly pointless and meaningless. I dont live locally and therefore not in a position to have a more hands on involvement.
There is no clear idea how Mr Couhig plans to increase attendances - something which has proved impossible in the past. In my opinion he seems to think that the 'matchday experience' is crucial to this, however I would suggest it comes down to price and a general apathy in the town (which will not be solved within a couple of years).
Questions remain over the future of the club once Mr Couhig loses interest/realises he cant spin a profit, and who he decides to sell to - the Trust will have no say on this.
Why oh why has the trust taken out more and more debt over the past year, that we simply cannot afford. We were told we would have to cut our cloth accordingly this season, with a reduced wage bill. Fine- live within our means, everyone appreciates that and it was with a view to being sustainable. However, despite having absolutely no way of paying the money back, we have taken out massive loans from prospective new owners (again) - and seemingly continue to do so. This is a direct contradiction of their purpose to "Safeguard our heritage and promoting a successful and sustainable future."
Whilst I fully agree with the questions about any we took out further loans, that has happened now, we can't turn back the clock.
I'm not convinced that it will be simple to significantly increase attendances, but the investment seems the better of the two options, at least it has a chance of working, the current situation has failed.
The plan b will be what it has been for the last few possible bids - find someone else to loan us money to initially pay back the loan R.Couhig has given, then try and keep the club running (in the face of probably high wages to the players we took on the Summer)
@Tom whilst I have little doubt you want what's best for the club, safeguarding the future & heritage requires a certain "Mystic Meg" quality that few can say they have. Sadly the football club costs a fortune to run. The stadium likewise. If by safeguarding, you mean drop down the leagues until we find our sustainable level, then there will also be other consequences, such as losing Mr Ainsworth, vast reduction in crowd and I suspect closing three stands of Adams Park to reduce the running/maintenance costs. As such, the only thing I can see for a way forward is to maximise what we have, which, in essence is what Mr Couhig was saying last night. To do that requires a level of investment that no businessman in his right mind will do unless he has control of his money and a majority say in decision making. Given that Mr Couhig isn't asking for the asset, namely Adams Park, I think Mr Stroud, in this instance, has done a remarkable job.
In the long run, it is up to the football authorities to sort out the almighty mess that modern football has itself in. What the answer is, I'm not sure, but salary capping could be a way forward. Perhaps players paying their own agents if they feel they need one. May also need to cut down on the number of leagues that are run to two or three as the appetite doesnt appear to be there to sustain four leagues, hence Bury and there are, no doubt, others waiting in the wings to go the same way.
I sat there last night wondering if GA achieved his dream of taking "little Wycombe" to the Championship, how the heck could we even begin to fund that? Burton managed it, managed to survive a season but came back down the season after. Their crowds are pretty thin on the ground.
In conclusion Tom, we are where we are, mistakes have been made by volunteers & amateurs trying to run a full-time professional football club. I have no doubt that many successful businessmen have looked at it and said no thanks. Having a man come in from the USA viewing from a completely different angle, may be the answer. Conversely it may not, however better to try and fail than not try at all. The current system has failed, what is the better alternative?
@Tom said:
Immediate peril under who's watch? Either way you look at it, Mr Stroud has performed hideously in my opinion (even ignoring the Bill and Jim/Harman charade)
I suspect that RC will get rid of him when the Couhigs take over the club, or at least get him off the Club Board and send him back to The Trust. That would probably be a good thing as I have maintained for a long time that it is unacceptable to have the chairmanship of both The Trust and The Club Boards vested in the hands of a single person.
“Given our situation of peril the signing of certain players over the summer is also highly questionable (Parker, who I assume will be on a decent wage, and the bloke from Russia who doesn't get a look in to name 2)”.
“..the bloke from Russia” suggests a disappointingly disinterested and almost dismissive attitude towards a player who has a very interesting and impressive CV for one so young (in addition to being the son of a prominent Labour MP).
Comments
We should devise a drinking game for the next one.
Someone asks a question that has literally just been addressed?....... Down your drink
Breath on a mirror, evidently.
Of course it’s not @tom, but we’re way beyond that. And do you think Parker and JGS make more than CMS and El-Abd did? And Bean and Tyson must have been on a fair old whack too so it’s not too far-fetched to think we’re onlt slightly above last years budget.
I agree with your comments about it all feeling a bit hollow tho. Being in the Championship because we’re funded by an investor won’t be anything like as special as knowing that a 500 Club signing kept us in L1 or even L2.
It was my understanding that the vote would be earlyish October.
@Tom, I am pretty neutral at the minute regarding Trevor Stroud. Some things he has got very wrong & some right. What I am pretty certain of is that you can't please everybody and it easy to be critical from a keyboard. If you listened to the answer, Trevor said along the lines of, "I honestly don't know". Thats not to say as a trust, the situation has not been discussed/nothing has been done.
What answers do you have to the situation.
@EwanHoosaami It's not my job to know, and of course only the board know all of the ins and outs of our current situation and refuse to divulge the information. Only they have the knowledge to come up with a solution
Am I right in saying the club lost £700k last season? And the thinking is that the investors are happy to cover these losses until sustainability can be achieved?
@Tom You can still have an input though & I am sure the trust will be grateful for any good new ideas?
There was a lot of big picture talk about being debt free and sustainable. I assume all the details will be made known before the vote actually takes place.
Yes fair enough, will wait and see
Hard to see how anyone could vote against the investment now, barring an awful deal being put on the table. Unless some people believe the situation isn't as bad as is being made out. Surely it's as simple as save Wycombe Wanderers or let Wycombe Wanderers go to shit?
Also worrying if the average age in attendance was as high as has been suggested. You'd hope that the voters would encompass several generations.
If the mood in the room is representative of the mood among voters then the Couhigs have nothing to worry about.
I think it's currently "Are you a fit and proper person? Blink once for yes, twice for no."
Ignore that, I've just seen that @Shev gave a much better reply.
I share many of @Tom views and feel very divided in terms of which way to vote.
I’m sure they would have thought about a ‘plan B’, and not being willing to discuss it seems a reasonable tactic to encourage voting yes.
I remain concerned that non-voters might prevent the threshold of 75% being met.
Interested in what could happen to nake you less divided. For me the Couhig's have run a great campaign so far but I still feel the 75% bar is just too high to get over. This because of voters trying to do the right thing and leaning towards staying as we are due to doubts about a new future.
The Couhig's plan to make each matchday an event that transcends lower League football and attracts people on this basis is laudable but unlikely to bear fruit. I can't think of a single club at any level in this country that achieves this.
So my question is, does the potential 9000+ fanbase exist? There's nothing wrong with raising standards with challenging targets but I would have more faith in the group if they weren't relying on a near sell out each fortnight to break even.
Over 2,000 watched it on the YouTube channel
It isn’t your job, no. But as a fan and what is a fan owned club, you have/had the opportunity to put yourself and your ideas forward and be elected so that it could be your job.
I hold TS in no high regard. At all. But it’s mighty easy to snipe at the man stood above all others while sat behind a screen crying “its not my job, it’s his”.
The question is what could we all have done to make the fan owned model work? I include myself in that.
@TheDancingYak the secrecy that sounds the trust, makes it impossible to know what our current position is - therefore any ideas or suggestions are utterly pointless and meaningless. I dont live locally and therefore not in a position to have a more hands on involvement.
There is no clear idea how Mr Couhig plans to increase attendances - something which has proved impossible in the past. In my opinion he seems to think that the 'matchday experience' is crucial to this, however I would suggest it comes down to price and a general apathy in the town (which will not be solved within a couple of years).
Questions remain over the future of the club once Mr Couhig loses interest/realises he cant spin a profit, and who he decides to sell to - the Trust will have no say on this.
Why oh why has the trust taken out more and more debt over the past year, that we simply cannot afford. We were told we would have to cut our cloth accordingly this season, with a reduced wage bill. Fine- live within our means, everyone appreciates that and it was with a view to being sustainable. However, despite having absolutely no way of paying the money back, we have taken out massive loans from prospective new owners (again) - and seemingly continue to do so. This is a direct contradiction of their purpose to "Safeguard our heritage and promoting a successful and sustainable future."
I think it will be an absolute landslide in favour of the proposal
90% plus I reckon
Whilst I fully agree with the questions about any we took out further loans, that has happened now, we can't turn back the clock.
I'm not convinced that it will be simple to significantly increase attendances, but the investment seems the better of the two options, at least it has a chance of working, the current situation has failed.
Quaint way of putting it @Tom. Are you talking to yourself? Either you do or you don’t!
The plan b will be what it has been for the last few possible bids - find someone else to loan us money to initially pay back the loan R.Couhig has given, then try and keep the club running (in the face of probably high wages to the players we took on the Summer)
@Tom whilst I have little doubt you want what's best for the club, safeguarding the future & heritage requires a certain "Mystic Meg" quality that few can say they have. Sadly the football club costs a fortune to run. The stadium likewise. If by safeguarding, you mean drop down the leagues until we find our sustainable level, then there will also be other consequences, such as losing Mr Ainsworth, vast reduction in crowd and I suspect closing three stands of Adams Park to reduce the running/maintenance costs. As such, the only thing I can see for a way forward is to maximise what we have, which, in essence is what Mr Couhig was saying last night. To do that requires a level of investment that no businessman in his right mind will do unless he has control of his money and a majority say in decision making. Given that Mr Couhig isn't asking for the asset, namely Adams Park, I think Mr Stroud, in this instance, has done a remarkable job.
In the long run, it is up to the football authorities to sort out the almighty mess that modern football has itself in. What the answer is, I'm not sure, but salary capping could be a way forward. Perhaps players paying their own agents if they feel they need one. May also need to cut down on the number of leagues that are run to two or three as the appetite doesnt appear to be there to sustain four leagues, hence Bury and there are, no doubt, others waiting in the wings to go the same way.
I sat there last night wondering if GA achieved his dream of taking "little Wycombe" to the Championship, how the heck could we even begin to fund that? Burton managed it, managed to survive a season but came back down the season after. Their crowds are pretty thin on the ground.
In conclusion Tom, we are where we are, mistakes have been made by volunteers & amateurs trying to run a full-time professional football club. I have no doubt that many successful businessmen have looked at it and said no thanks. Having a man come in from the USA viewing from a completely different angle, may be the answer. Conversely it may not, however better to try and fail than not try at all. The current system has failed, what is the better alternative?
I see quite a few comments asking why the club has taken out more debt over the last year or so.
The answer is pretty obvious isn't it? It was essential capital required to keep the club functioning. What would you rather they had done?
I suspect that RC will get rid of him when the Couhigs take over the club, or at least get him off the Club Board and send him back to The Trust. That would probably be a good thing as I have maintained for a long time that it is unacceptable to have the chairmanship of both The Trust and The Club Boards vested in the hands of a single person.
“Given our situation of peril the signing of certain players over the summer is also highly questionable (Parker, who I assume will be on a decent wage, and the bloke from Russia who doesn't get a look in to name 2)”.
“..the bloke from Russia” suggests a disappointingly disinterested and almost dismissive attitude towards a player who has a very interesting and impressive CV for one so young (in addition to being the son of a prominent Labour MP).
Not signed such a good squad, pretty simple really.
Yes, if only we didn’t have so many good players.