@WildWestFC based on an hour or so Googling road building cost you're looking at something like £2M per mile just to build it without cost to aquire the land, planning, legal stuff etc assuming you could get approval.
@Malone said:
This was deemed the best choice, so goodness knows what that the other "less suitable" sites were! Anyone from the time know where they were?!
Aside from the very unlikely idea of getting the road out the back up the hill going, dare I say we learn from the rugby goons? As in creating an atmosphere more people want to stay and enjoy after the game, so people leave in a staggered fashion?
I always find it weird that so many people choose to go and wait in their car after the game instead of having a drink in the bar, watching the late kick off etc. Part of me wonders whether it just isn’t as popular to sit around in a pub atmosphere now and people would be more likely to hang around in a coffee shop type vibe. After all, cafes have surged in popularity in the last two decades, while pubs have been closing. If you think about it we only have three bars at the ground because traditionally football was accompanied by beer, but actually it may be a false assumption that is the right way to go and actually a lot of people may prefer something different. Also the margins would be pretty decent (better?) on the overpriced shit people consume in Starbucks and alike. I can’t imagine anything worse myself, but I can think of people that might be inclined to sit around with a cappuccino and a cake after the game but would rather sit in their car than be around people drinking beer.
On a related note, surely the inaccessibility must in some ways be beneficial. I think we charge £10 a car and there must be a few hundred people that drink in the bars at the club on a match day because they’re basically captive. I would hazard a guess that our revenues per attendee excluding their ticket purchase must be quite high compared to some others. At Wimbledon, for instance, I reckon far more people are just paying for a ticket and nothing else.
@RaveyDaveyGravy said:
Reality is, the access problems to and from AP are probably too great and too costly to resolve. Certainly, if the Couhig’s are aiming for and achieve Championship football, I cannot see it being long before the notion of a new stadium rears it’s head again
Just to note that Rob Couhig suspended operations of the last soccer club he owned pending a move to a new stadium. That was the end of them, two seasons after he bought them.
Yep, very much aware of this! I do believe that a new stadium may be the long term answer if we are to improve attendances and sustainability. What I would need therefore, is some reassurances about how such a move would take place and where it would leave the trust? How would the sale of AP go and who would own what in the new set up?
@Twizz said: @Malone
H7 does now have planning but as yet no building work. Last I heard there was debate about the access road off the Amersham Road.
Little Marlow might have been where they have actually built the Wycombe District Athletics Complex (but, in truth, I'm not sure).
Abbey Barn South area, to my knowledge, doesn't yet have planning.
Perhaps we should have built Adams Park at Booker?
There's a running track in little marlow but you'd need about triple the room for a footy stadium setup
Is the point not that RC, if owner, could conceivably move the team to a new stadium, leaving the ground empty. Wouldn't have to be a Wimbledon-type situation; he just might find that he can have the club play somewhere nearby that he thinks more suitable or likely to be profitable. I suppose I wouldn't necessarily be against it either if he was right, so long as it was still in Wycombe.
@Twizz said: @WildWestFC based on an hour or so Googling road building cost you're looking at something like £2M per mile just to build it without cost to aquire the land, planning, legal stuff etc assuming you could get approval.
Thanks for doing this research. Connecting to Toweridge Lane is less than a mile, so cost may not be so huge. I was wondering if the cost is more than the stadium value which it may not be, at least for an emergency access road.
This has always been a potential glass ceiling for Wycombe at AP, whether access could be improved in this way needs to be reviewed seriously if it never has been.
@WildWestFC said:
There are “dirt tracks” that approach the ground from West Wycombe and the Lane End road. Has there ever been any thought to trying to improve these with a small extension towards the ground car park? At best only 4x4s could probably use them right now and local residents / land owners may not be pleased. Just wondering if the club has ever seriously tried this?
A few seasons back I had small kids with me so went to park in top field, can’t remember the game, massive crowd and we ended up in the little used overspill field . Post match trapped for hours moaning kids, then saw a guy turn his car round and drive into the top woods, followed him and five mins latter popped out on the back road to Stokenchurch, cut half an hour off my usual journey time!
@HCblue said:
Is the point not that RC, if owner, could conceivably move the team to a new stadium, leaving the ground empty. Wouldn't have to be a Wimbledon-type situation; he just might find that he can have the club play somewhere nearby that he thinks more suitable or likely to be profitable. I suppose I wouldn't necessarily be against it either if he was right, so long as it was still in Wycombe.
Also, some cycle provision should be looked at, with incentives like a free drink or something similar. There are usually a few grants around from local authorities for getting bike racks installed. I know if I lived in Wycombe I would definitely cycle to the match if there was somewhere secure to park the steed.
Well away from.the away end and disappointed Bristol Rovers fans!
@Malone said:
This was deemed the best choice, so goodness knows what that the other "less suitable" sites were! Anyone from the time know where they were?!
Aside from the very unlikely idea of getting the road out the back up the hill going, dare I say we learn from the rugby goons? As in creating an atmosphere more people want to stay and enjoy after the game, so people leave in a staggered fashion?
I always find it weird that so many people choose to go and wait in their car after the game instead of having a drink in the bar, watching the late kick off etc. Part of me wonders whether it just isn’t as popular to sit around in a pub atmosphere now and people would be more likely to hang around in a coffee shop type vibe. After all, cafes have surged in popularity in the last two decades, while pubs have been closing. If you think about it we only have three bars at the ground because traditionally football was accompanied by beer, but actually it may be a false assumption that is the right way to go and actually a lot of people may prefer something different. Also the margins would be pretty decent (better?) on the overpriced shit people consume in Starbucks and alike. I can’t imagine anything worse myself, but I can think of people that might be inclined to sit around with a cappuccino and a cake after the game but would rather sit in their car than be around people drinking beer.
>
I know there will be a number of people who physically aren't up to much walking, or have young kids etc, but the baffling thing to me, as both a tightwad, and someone who hates waiting in large queues, is why people simply don't park a bit further out and walk in?
You've been basically still for 2-3hours, so both a nice little walk, and chat about the game AND being able to avoid the queue has to be worth a go?
Plenty of places to park for free, you can always park say a mile away at most. I know by football fan standards that's a huge walk, but it's not really that far is it?
@Malone said:
This was deemed the best choice, so goodness knows what that the other "less suitable" sites were! Anyone from the time know where they were?!
Aside from the very unlikely idea of getting the road out the back up the hill going, dare I say we learn from the rugby goons? As in creating an atmosphere more people want to stay and enjoy after the game, so people leave in a staggered fashion?
I always find it weird that so many people choose to go and wait in their car after the game instead of having a drink in the bar, watching the late kick off etc. Part of me wonders whether it just isn’t as popular to sit around in a pub atmosphere now and people would be more likely to hang around in a coffee shop type vibe. After all, cafes have surged in popularity in the last two decades, while pubs have been closing. If you think about it we only have three bars at the ground because traditionally football was accompanied by beer, but actually it may be a false assumption that is the right way to go and actually a lot of people may prefer something different. Also the margins would be pretty decent (better?) on the overpriced shit people consume in Starbucks and alike. I can’t imagine anything worse myself, but I can think of people that might be inclined to sit around with a cappuccino and a cake after the game but would rather sit in their car than be around people drinking beer.
On a related note, surely the inaccessibility must in some ways be beneficial. I think we charge £10 a car and there must be a few hundred people that drink in the bars at the club on a match day because they’re basically captive. I would hazard a guess that our revenues per attendee excluding their ticket purchase must be quite high compared to some others. At Wimbledon, for instance, I reckon far more people are just paying for a ticket and nothing else.
The odd thing was, we had a small coffee shop built a few years ago, more or less where the club shop is now. Was always packed pre-match, but was never open afterwards. It only lasted a year or two, before it was closed, with the whole area being redeveloped into the club shop/reception area that we have now.
I thought it was strange that we spent money fitting out the coffee shop, then closing it again so quickly. If it could have been bigger, and open after the game as well as before, I'm sure it could have made money for the club.
I think a lot of people who are driving are loath to have even one beer after the game, for obvious reasons. If there was a decent coffee shop option after the game, I'm sure more people would hang around. Also, I don't think the Vere (Caledonian) is as attractive to as many people these days, because of the general shabby appearance of the place, not to mention the lack of seating.
I actually mentioned all this to Rob before the Southend game, so maybe something might materialise sometime in the future.
I think a lot of people who are driving are loath to have even one beer after the game, for obvious reasons. If there was a decent coffee shop option after the game, I'm sure more people would hang around. Also, I don't think the Vere (Caledonian) is as attractive to as many people these days, because of the general shabby appearance of the place, not to mention the lack of seating.
I actually mentioned all this to Rob before the Southend game, so maybe something might materialise sometime in the future.
Have always wondered on this - what's the average sort of limit for a "Normal" height/weight bloke before you risk being "over"? 1 pint? 2? Or dependent on food etc?
Four Ashes certainly was a serious proposal at one stage.
The road access beyond the old Wellsbourne School is (or certainly was) very narrow country lanes and obviously the wrong side of town to the motorway. Hard to see how that site could have sustained league football.
@NewburyWanderer said: @Malone Lots of variables - no two people the same. That's the problem really.
Some (as in a lot) of years ago for a news item two colleagues of mine were taken to a boozer by a TV crew to check a new breath test system. Needless to say working in journalism one was able to drink a stupendous amount before the needle even slightly moved...whereas the other fella was over after one and half. Both same height and weight. Depressingly, the safest course is not to drink and drive at all. Some people are over the morning after the night before! As I am a sad lone driver I might risk one, but usually opt for shandy, so the quality of the Rebellion ale is lost on me even if I knew how to use an app.
@glasshalffull said:
I also think Perfidious Albion is right in his comments about Hillbottom Road etc.
‘Speedy boarding’ sounds a good idea, I’ll mention it to Mark Palmer once bloody BT restore my email service.
Did you pen some programme notes in the 90s mentioning the possibility of a railway line extension to the ground, or did I imagine that?
At my age I’m pleased if I can remember what I was doing this morning, never mind in the 90’s!
Sorry, but I have no recollection of that and I guess it would be even costlier than building a road plus not many would use it on non match days.
@NewburyWanderer said: @Malone Lots of variables - no two people the same. That's the problem really.
Some (as in a lot) of years ago for a news item two colleagues of mine were taken to a boozer by a TV crew to check a new breath test system. Needless to say working in journalism one was able to drink a stupendous amount before the needle even slightly moved...whereas the other fella was over after one and half. Both same height and weight. Depressingly, the safest course is not to drink and drive at all. Some people are over the morning after the night before! As I am a sad lone driver I might risk one, but usually opt for shandy, so the quality of the Rebellion ale is lost on me even if I knew how to use an app.
Had a works do a few years back in a slightly trendy bar, the young barman didn't actually know what a shandy was.
Similarly, in the Frank Adams concourse earlier this year, when I asked one of the young lads for a Bovril, he replied "Would you like milk with that?".
@NewburyWanderer said: @Malone Lots of variables - no two people the same. That's the problem really.
Some (as in a lot) of years ago for a news item two colleagues of mine were taken to a boozer by a TV crew to check a new breath test system. Needless to say working in journalism one was able to drink a stupendous amount before the needle even slightly moved...whereas the other fella was over after one and half. Both same height and weight. Depressingly, the safest course is not to drink and drive at all. Some people are over the morning after the night before! As I am a sad lone driver I might risk one, but usually opt for shandy, so the quality of the Rebellion ale is lost on me even if I knew how to use an app.
Had a works do a few years back in a slightly trendy bar, the young barman didn't actually know what a shandy was.
Similarly, in the Frank Adams concourse earlier this year, when I asked one of the young lads for a Bovril, he replied "Would you like milk with that?".
I feel your pain @NewburyWanderer it's shaming enough having to ask for one without being quizzed about what it is! When I first came down south in the 1980s as a bitter drinker (drinker of bitter not just a bitter man drinking) the trend was lager-top.
What's that?
Er...a pint of Lager with a bit of lemonade in the top.
Oh, says I, you mean shandy?
It was funny at the time (depending on how many lager-tops the butt of the joke had already consumed, of course!) and made up for three years of cockernee humour: 'From the North? Look! Electric Light! Inside toilet! Where's your whippet? Have you got T'flat Cap? etc etc'
@arnos_grove , yep it's been earmarked for housing since "Adam was a boy" as they say.
Although I was surprised to see it mention in the above article from 1969!
@NewburyWanderer said: @Malone Lots of variables - no two people the same. That's the problem really.
Some (as in a lot) of years ago for a news item two colleagues of mine were taken to a boozer by a TV crew to check a new breath test system. Needless to say working in journalism one was able to drink a stupendous amount before the needle even slightly moved...whereas the other fella was over after one and half. Both same height and weight. Depressingly, the safest course is not to drink and drive at all. Some people are over the morning after the night before! As I am a sad lone driver I might risk one, but usually opt for shandy, so the quality of the Rebellion ale is lost on me even if I knew how to use an app.
Had a works do a few years back in a slightly trendy bar, the young barman didn't actually know what a shandy was.
Similarly, in the Frank Adams concourse earlier this year, when I asked one of the young lads for a Bovril, he replied "Would you like milk with that?".
I feel your pain @NewburyWanderer it's shaming enough having to ask for one without being quizzed about what it is! When I first came down south in the 1980s as a bitter drinker (drinker of bitter not just a bitter man drinking) the trend was lager-top.
What's that?
Er...a pint of Lager with a bit of lemonade in the top.
Oh, says I, you mean shandy?
It was funny at the time (depending on how many lager-tops the butt of the joke had already consumed, of course!) and made up for three years of cockernee humour: 'From the North? Look! Electric Light! Inside toilet! Where's your whippet? Have you got T'flat Cap? etc etc'
I remember Dave Carroll quoting a lager top as his fave drink once.
As a total non drinker id have presumed it was the other way round from your description. What does a tiny bit of lemonade do? Mask the foul lager taste?
A thread about this comes up every few years on the Gasroom in either of its guises as if it hadn't been discussed to death last time.
To summarise, it won't happen because the Dashwoods want planning permission to build houses on any road that gets built on their land. Until the planning permission part isn't a straight up no from the council, there's next to no chance of this happening.
@NewburyWanderer said: @Malone Lots of variables - no two people the same. That's the problem really.
Some (as in a lot) of years ago for a news item two colleagues of mine were taken to a boozer by a TV crew to check a new breath test system. Needless to say working in journalism one was able to drink a stupendous amount before the needle even slightly moved...whereas the other fella was over after one and half. Both same height and weight. Depressingly, the safest course is not to drink and drive at all. Some people are over the morning after the night before! As I am a sad lone driver I might risk one, but usually opt for shandy, so the quality of the Rebellion ale is lost on me even if I knew how to use an app.
Had a works do a few years back in a slightly trendy bar, the young barman didn't actually know what a shandy was.
Similarly, in the Frank Adams concourse earlier this year, when I asked one of the young lads for a Bovril, he replied "Would you like milk with that?".
I feel your pain @NewburyWanderer it's shaming enough having to ask for one without being quizzed about what it is! When I first came down south in the 1980s as a bitter drinker (drinker of bitter not just a bitter man drinking) the trend was lager-top.
What's that?
Er...a pint of Lager with a bit of lemonade in the top.
Oh, says I, you mean shandy?
It was funny at the time (depending on how many lager-tops the butt of the joke had already consumed, of course!) and made up for three years of cockernee humour: 'From the North? Look! Electric Light! Inside toilet! Where's your whippet? Have you got T'flat Cap? etc etc'
I remember Dave Carroll quoting a lager top as his fave drink once.
As a total non drinker id have presumed it was the other way round from your description. What does a tiny bit of lemonade do? Mask the foul lager taste?
Good for a hangover. Slightly sweeter and more refreshing.
@ReadingMarginalista I read the first sentence of that as a reply to the lager top debate and thought "Blimey that's a strong reaction, add lime if you feel so strongly about it".
Then you mentioned Dashwood and the penny dropped ...
Haha
Comments
@WildWestFC based on an hour or so Googling road building cost you're looking at something like £2M per mile just to build it without cost to aquire the land, planning, legal stuff etc assuming you could get approval.
I always find it weird that so many people choose to go and wait in their car after the game instead of having a drink in the bar, watching the late kick off etc. Part of me wonders whether it just isn’t as popular to sit around in a pub atmosphere now and people would be more likely to hang around in a coffee shop type vibe. After all, cafes have surged in popularity in the last two decades, while pubs have been closing. If you think about it we only have three bars at the ground because traditionally football was accompanied by beer, but actually it may be a false assumption that is the right way to go and actually a lot of people may prefer something different. Also the margins would be pretty decent (better?) on the overpriced shit people consume in Starbucks and alike. I can’t imagine anything worse myself, but I can think of people that might be inclined to sit around with a cappuccino and a cake after the game but would rather sit in their car than be around people drinking beer.
On a related note, surely the inaccessibility must in some ways be beneficial. I think we charge £10 a car and there must be a few hundred people that drink in the bars at the club on a match day because they’re basically captive. I would hazard a guess that our revenues per attendee excluding their ticket purchase must be quite high compared to some others. At Wimbledon, for instance, I reckon far more people are just paying for a ticket and nothing else.
Yep, very much aware of this! I do believe that a new stadium may be the long term answer if we are to improve attendances and sustainability. What I would need therefore, is some reassurances about how such a move would take place and where it would leave the trust? How would the sale of AP go and who would own what in the new set up?
There's a running track in little marlow but you'd need about triple the room for a footy stadium setup
Is the point not that RC, if owner, could conceivably move the team to a new stadium, leaving the ground empty. Wouldn't have to be a Wimbledon-type situation; he just might find that he can have the club play somewhere nearby that he thinks more suitable or likely to be profitable. I suppose I wouldn't necessarily be against it either if he was right, so long as it was still in Wycombe.
Where the heck is this H7 site in Hazlemere?
Thanks for doing this research. Connecting to Toweridge Lane is less than a mile, so cost may not be so huge. I was wondering if the cost is more than the stadium value which it may not be, at least for an emergency access road.
This has always been a potential glass ceiling for Wycombe at AP, whether access could be improved in this way needs to be reviewed seriously if it never has been.
A few seasons back I had small kids with me so went to park in top field, can’t remember the game, massive crowd and we ended up in the little used overspill field . Post match trapped for hours moaning kids, then saw a guy turn his car round and drive into the top woods, followed him and five mins latter popped out on the back road to Stokenchurch, cut half an hour off my usual journey time!
@HCblue I think that to be a likely scenario, given the limitations at Adams Park.
Could always move the team to New Orleans!
Well away from.the away end and disappointed Bristol Rovers fans!
>
I know there will be a number of people who physically aren't up to much walking, or have young kids etc, but the baffling thing to me, as both a tightwad, and someone who hates waiting in large queues, is why people simply don't park a bit further out and walk in?
You've been basically still for 2-3hours, so both a nice little walk, and chat about the game AND being able to avoid the queue has to be worth a go?
Plenty of places to park for free, you can always park say a mile away at most. I know by football fan standards that's a huge walk, but it's not really that far is it?
I must admit I didn't get the terminology either.
From this Hazlemere history website - http://www.hazlemereparishcouncil.org.uk/local-information/hazlemere-history/ - "In 1969 came another threat of a huge road from Inkerman Hill to Hughenden splitting Hazlemere in half with thousands of houses to be built. (H7)."
I'd always thought it was Four Ashes which was the proposed site over that way
The odd thing was, we had a small coffee shop built a few years ago, more or less where the club shop is now. Was always packed pre-match, but was never open afterwards. It only lasted a year or two, before it was closed, with the whole area being redeveloped into the club shop/reception area that we have now.
I thought it was strange that we spent money fitting out the coffee shop, then closing it again so quickly. If it could have been bigger, and open after the game as well as before, I'm sure it could have made money for the club.
I think a lot of people who are driving are loath to have even one beer after the game, for obvious reasons. If there was a decent coffee shop option after the game, I'm sure more people would hang around. Also, I don't think the Vere (Caledonian) is as attractive to as many people these days, because of the general shabby appearance of the place, not to mention the lack of seating.
I actually mentioned all this to Rob before the Southend game, so maybe something might materialise sometime in the future.
Have always wondered on this - what's the average sort of limit for a "Normal" height/weight bloke before you risk being "over"? 1 pint? 2? Or dependent on food etc?
@Malone Lots of variables - no two people the same. That's the problem really.
Four Ashes certainly was a serious proposal at one stage.
The road access beyond the old Wellsbourne School is (or certainly was) very narrow country lanes and obviously the wrong side of town to the motorway. Hard to see how that site could have sustained league football.
Some (as in a lot) of years ago for a news item two colleagues of mine were taken to a boozer by a TV crew to check a new breath test system. Needless to say working in journalism one was able to drink a stupendous amount before the needle even slightly moved...whereas the other fella was over after one and half. Both same height and weight. Depressingly, the safest course is not to drink and drive at all. Some people are over the morning after the night before! As I am a sad lone driver I might risk one, but usually opt for shandy, so the quality of the Rebellion ale is lost on me even if I knew how to use an app.
Sorry, but I have no recollection of that and I guess it would be even costlier than building a road plus not many would use it on non match days.
Had a works do a few years back in a slightly trendy bar, the young barman didn't actually know what a shandy was.
Similarly, in the Frank Adams concourse earlier this year, when I asked one of the young lads for a Bovril, he replied "Would you like milk with that?".
I feel your pain @NewburyWanderer it's shaming enough having to ask for one without being quizzed about what it is! When I first came down south in the 1980s as a bitter drinker (drinker of bitter not just a bitter man drinking) the trend was lager-top.
What's that?
Er...a pint of Lager with a bit of lemonade in the top.
Oh, says I, you mean shandy?
It was funny at the time (depending on how many lager-tops the butt of the joke had already consumed, of course!) and made up for three years of cockernee humour: 'From the North? Look! Electric Light! Inside toilet! Where's your whippet? Have you got T'flat Cap? etc etc'
They were talking up that H7 site when I was still at Wellesbourne school. I’m almost 49 now.
@arnos_grove , yep it's been earmarked for housing since "Adam was a boy" as they say.
Although I was surprised to see it mention in the above article from 1969!
I remember Dave Carroll quoting a lager top as his fave drink once.
As a total non drinker id have presumed it was the other way round from your description. What does a tiny bit of lemonade do? Mask the foul lager taste?
A thread about this comes up every few years on the Gasroom in either of its guises as if it hadn't been discussed to death last time.
To summarise, it won't happen because the Dashwoods want planning permission to build houses on any road that gets built on their land. Until the planning permission part isn't a straight up no from the council, there's next to no chance of this happening.
Good for a hangover. Slightly sweeter and more refreshing.
@ReadingMarginalista I read the first sentence of that as a reply to the lager top debate and thought "Blimey that's a strong reaction, add lime if you feel so strongly about it".
Then you mentioned Dashwood and the penny dropped ...
Haha
Why do so few people cycle to the ground?