@prufrock_91 said:
I may be in the minority in that I actually really enjoyed the actual ground. Nice and close, felt rough and ready.
No, that's perfectly fair, @prufrock_91. We got there late and had no opportunity to sample the delights on offer but it was welcoming enough and I, too, enjoy the appeal of small grounds like this and Forest Green. But even I have a line, drawn fairly low, and it's where I can't see the bloody game.
@fame_46 said: @LeedsBlue - how does playing home or away impact your ability to play?
For the record I’ve seen him play well off the bench away Forest Green 2 seasons ago being an example.
Tactically Gaz sets up to be ultra competitive and press which Freeman can do, but impacts the other side of the game, which we see when he comes on and the game is stretched.
Personally, as a fan I’d rather see him play a part in winning us a game than start and not.
There are definitely two schools of thought here, and I think good cases can be made either way. But as far as the games, in both of those wins, we were a last minute goal away from drawing (or even losing, in the case of Southend). Away to Fleetwood, we were a minute away from winning, and today we missed some great chances. All of which is just to say I don't think the results themselves are the most pertinent factor in whether Freeman should start, simply because they have all been nip and tuck. If we were winning 3-0 with him off the bench, and losing 3-0 with him starting, it would be a bit more cut and dried. Of course, I am aware he was involved in the two last minute winners, but that is where the finishing context comes in versus today.
I don't see Freeman being better against tired legs as a final argument for not starting him, because firstly, everyone is better against tired legs, and secondly, he is still playing well. Today he was involved in four or five chances, two of which (maybe three, I forget) were let down by his shooting. If any of those go in, the conversation is all about how starting him was the right move. I know that's an "if", but my point is that the build up play was still there, let down by poor finishing (and Bayo straying offside before that rebound). Goals shine a brighter spotlight on the quality that led up to them.
This debate is actually a MASSIVE positive though - we are talking about a classy midfielder that we have the luxury of going back and forth about whether to use him as a substitute, just like we can with pretty much all of our forwards (except Fred, who I think is the only nailed on starter up front when fit). What a great dilemma to have!
@HCblue , you've described the Wimbledon view to an absolute tee!
Worst view I've ever had at a game, even last year, getting in a full hour before the start and having the choice of view.
The dugouts block a good chunk out. You can't see the near touchline due to the wall.
The terrace is so shallow that unless you're 6ft 5 it's very hard to get a view of the far corner.
And like you say, if you're unlucky enough to get in late and be at the far end, a totally useless view.
Was comfortable missing today, even as one of the closer games.
@fame_46 said: @LeedsBlue - how does playing home or away impact your ability to play?
For the record I’ve seen him play well off the bench away Forest Green 2 seasons ago being an example.
Tactically Gaz sets up to be ultra competitive and press which Freeman can do, but impacts the other side of the game, which we see when he comes on and the game is stretched.
Personally, as a fan I’d rather see him play a part in winning us a game than start and not.
@fame_46 I couldn’t even get close to setting out the Freeman conundrum as well as @Shev has done. My point was rather more of a simplistic, statistical one anyway, as @LX1 has succinctly noted above.
I’d just like to rejoice in the fact that Freeman is still here, now into his fourth season with us and Gareth and Dobbo are helping to turn him from non-league lad with potential, into a class act.
I have to disagree with Aloysius in his earlier post that ‘long balls to Bayo so rarely work’. It may have been true yesterday because their defenders marshalled him very well, but this tactic has been very successful for us in the last couple of seasons. You might not find it too pleasing on the eye, but it’s brought us a lot of goals for Bayo and his team mates.
Balls lumped from Allsop to Bayo don't always work, I find @glasshalffull - however, deep crosses from full backs are particularly useful, JJ has racked up numerous assists from these over the last few years.
Just a pity that Bayo was marked out of even those yesterday.
Regularly pumping it at him from deep for 90 mins rarely has the desired effect, it just comes back too quickly and makes the game scrappy.That helps against better teams maybe but you also need a bit of variety and ability to read the game and change it. We have always had to be a more reactive team condensing play and living on maximum effort and running but as we improve our quality with players like Fred , Freeman and Wheeler we might have to work on how to give them a bit more freedom. To an extent we did this with Kashket for a while when him and Bayo played in a 442, always seems a bit of a waste to have him running out wide rather than goal hanging.
I agree that we often look better when we keep it on the deck. I was just disagreeing with the statement that ‘long balls to Bayo rarely work’ because they’ve led to a lot of goals. Also, If you’re going to lose possession, surely it’s better to do so deep inside the opposition half than inside your own half.
I wondered if we might have seen Bayo taken off in favour of Samuel had it not been for the forced changes of Kaahket (who looked to be feeling his upper thighs) and Bloomfield.
We'll never know what the strategy might have been going to be but it seemed to me that GA couldn't really take off Bayo at 0-0 with 10mins to go in case Charles or Stewart who both looked (to me) not quite 100% needed to come off.
Plus it's not like Bayo didn't win any of the headers, it just didn't fall right.
We very rarely take Bayo off as well in fairness.
Which sometimes seems surprising at his age, and with upcoming games, but I suppose he's so key to our set up.
@glasshalffull said:
I have to disagree with Aloysius in his earlier post that ‘long balls to Bayo so rarely work’. It may have been true yesterday because their defenders marshalled him very well, but this tactic has been very successful for us in the last couple of seasons. You might not find it too pleasing on the eye, but it’s brought us a lot of goals for Bayo and his team mates.
Sure it occasionally worked before. But we were playing a division lower against worse defenders and Bayo was a few years younger. And as has been pointed out, it worked particularly well when we play a 442 with Kashket close to Bayo to pick up the second balls. But circumstances change. We're playing with a classy midfielder in Freeman who can create something from nothing. We're playing with two wide forwards who aren't close enough to stand a chance winning the second ball - and are more capable of creating goal threats with the ball at their feet having been threaded through the midfield. If we want to play long ball, Samuel in the centre is now much better at hold up play. We now have the resources to play better, more effective football. Long balls to Bayo in the current system are a wasted opportunity.
An unbeaten run of just six games (three of them draws for f*%ks sake) and allowing Ipswich to go two points clear of us and Sunderland just one point behind. All signs of just how tactically inept the current manager is. Get rid of Ainsworth, appoint Freeman as player/manager (as well as giving him a commercial role in the week to boost finances) and surely we will instantly get the results a club of our stature has every right to expect.
Or we could trust the manager's judgement on personnel and tactics and enjoy the ride.
The manager’s judgement has proved very sound up to this point so I agree with DevC. I’m happy to let GA decide when using Bayo as a focal point of our attacks is a tactic that is no longer working. Having said that, Aloysius made some good points and the only phrase I took issue with was that ‘long balls to Bayo rarely work’ because that is simply not accurate.
I'm liking three speedy front players scurrying about when they are all fit (and start scoring regularly) only for Bayo to amble on like the T-Rex in Jurassic Park and have knackered defenders saying 'What the f...?' Except for my shouting for subs which he generally ignores I let Gareth get on with it!
Comments
I may be in the minority in that I actually really enjoyed the actual ground. Nice and close, felt rough and ready.
No, that's perfectly fair, @prufrock_91. We got there late and had no opportunity to sample the delights on offer but it was welcoming enough and I, too, enjoy the appeal of small grounds like this and Forest Green. But even I have a line, drawn fairly low, and it's where I can't see the bloody game.
There are definitely two schools of thought here, and I think good cases can be made either way. But as far as the games, in both of those wins, we were a last minute goal away from drawing (or even losing, in the case of Southend). Away to Fleetwood, we were a minute away from winning, and today we missed some great chances. All of which is just to say I don't think the results themselves are the most pertinent factor in whether Freeman should start, simply because they have all been nip and tuck. If we were winning 3-0 with him off the bench, and losing 3-0 with him starting, it would be a bit more cut and dried. Of course, I am aware he was involved in the two last minute winners, but that is where the finishing context comes in versus today.
I don't see Freeman being better against tired legs as a final argument for not starting him, because firstly, everyone is better against tired legs, and secondly, he is still playing well. Today he was involved in four or five chances, two of which (maybe three, I forget) were let down by his shooting. If any of those go in, the conversation is all about how starting him was the right move. I know that's an "if", but my point is that the build up play was still there, let down by poor finishing (and Bayo straying offside before that rebound). Goals shine a brighter spotlight on the quality that led up to them.
This debate is actually a MASSIVE positive though - we are talking about a classy midfielder that we have the luxury of going back and forth about whether to use him as a substitute, just like we can with pretty much all of our forwards (except Fred, who I think is the only nailed on starter up front when fit). What a great dilemma to have!
@HCblue , you've described the Wimbledon view to an absolute tee!
Worst view I've ever had at a game, even last year, getting in a full hour before the start and having the choice of view.
The dugouts block a good chunk out. You can't see the near touchline due to the wall.
The terrace is so shallow that unless you're 6ft 5 it's very hard to get a view of the far corner.
And like you say, if you're unlucky enough to get in late and be at the far end, a totally useless view.
Was comfortable missing today, even as one of the closer games.
Always a poor game/result there too.
Based upon Wimbledon's projections for the stadium completion, that was our last league game at Kingsmeadow.
Fingers crossed, @shev. Don't know if you've been but it's dreadful for away spectators.
Teams are more likely to win at home than away
@fame_46 I couldn’t even get close to setting out the Freeman conundrum as well as @Shev has done. My point was rather more of a simplistic, statistical one anyway, as @LX1 has succinctly noted above.
I’d just like to rejoice in the fact that Freeman is still here, now into his fourth season with us and Gareth and Dobbo are helping to turn him from non-league lad with potential, into a class act.
I have to disagree with Aloysius in his earlier post that ‘long balls to Bayo so rarely work’. It may have been true yesterday because their defenders marshalled him very well, but this tactic has been very successful for us in the last couple of seasons. You might not find it too pleasing on the eye, but it’s brought us a lot of goals for Bayo and his team mates.
Balls lumped from Allsop to Bayo don't always work, I find @glasshalffull - however, deep crosses from full backs are particularly useful, JJ has racked up numerous assists from these over the last few years.
Just a pity that Bayo was marked out of even those yesterday.
Regularly pumping it at him from deep for 90 mins rarely has the desired effect, it just comes back too quickly and makes the game scrappy.That helps against better teams maybe but you also need a bit of variety and ability to read the game and change it. We have always had to be a more reactive team condensing play and living on maximum effort and running but as we improve our quality with players like Fred , Freeman and Wheeler we might have to work on how to give them a bit more freedom. To an extent we did this with Kashket for a while when him and Bayo played in a 442, always seems a bit of a waste to have him running out wide rather than goal hanging.
I agree that we often look better when we keep it on the deck. I was just disagreeing with the statement that ‘long balls to Bayo rarely work’ because they’ve led to a lot of goals. Also, If you’re going to lose possession, surely it’s better to do so deep inside the opposition half than inside your own half.
I wondered if we might have seen Bayo taken off in favour of Samuel had it not been for the forced changes of Kaahket (who looked to be feeling his upper thighs) and Bloomfield.
We'll never know what the strategy might have been going to be but it seemed to me that GA couldn't really take off Bayo at 0-0 with 10mins to go in case Charles or Stewart who both looked (to me) not quite 100% needed to come off.
Plus it's not like Bayo didn't win any of the headers, it just didn't fall right.
We very rarely take Bayo off as well in fairness.
Which sometimes seems surprising at his age, and with upcoming games, but I suppose he's so key to our set up.
Sure it occasionally worked before. But we were playing a division lower against worse defenders and Bayo was a few years younger. And as has been pointed out, it worked particularly well when we play a 442 with Kashket close to Bayo to pick up the second balls. But circumstances change. We're playing with a classy midfielder in Freeman who can create something from nothing. We're playing with two wide forwards who aren't close enough to stand a chance winning the second ball - and are more capable of creating goal threats with the ball at their feet having been threaded through the midfield. If we want to play long ball, Samuel in the centre is now much better at hold up play. We now have the resources to play better, more effective football. Long balls to Bayo in the current system are a wasted opportunity.
An unbeaten run of just six games (three of them draws for f*%ks sake) and allowing Ipswich to go two points clear of us and Sunderland just one point behind. All signs of just how tactically inept the current manager is. Get rid of Ainsworth, appoint Freeman as player/manager (as well as giving him a commercial role in the week to boost finances) and surely we will instantly get the results a club of our stature has every right to expect.
Or we could trust the manager's judgement on personnel and tactics and enjoy the ride.
I think that is your best ever post Dev.
The manager’s judgement has proved very sound up to this point so I agree with DevC. I’m happy to let GA decide when using Bayo as a focal point of our attacks is a tactic that is no longer working. Having said that, Aloysius made some good points and the only phrase I took issue with was that ‘long balls to Bayo rarely work’ because that is simply not accurate.
My usual breakdown/analysis, on matters on and off-pitch: https://chairboyscentral.com/2019/09/02/light-dark-blue-monday-afc-wimbledon-0-0-wycombe/
I'm liking three speedy front players scurrying about when they are all fit (and start scoring regularly) only for Bayo to amble on like the T-Rex in Jurassic Park and have knackered defenders saying 'What the f...?' Except for my shouting for subs which he generally ignores I let Gareth get on with it!