It was razzmatazz of the highest order - the likes of which have not been seen in the Vere since Lewis Montrose poured a celebratory milkshake over his semi-naked torso.
These guys are charming and infectious. Then again people say that about a lot of folk in positions of power. For what it’s worth I think it’s a reasonable position to be in right now. We will have an exciting few months and we will get to see if this external charm is a veneer or the real deal.
Our stadium is in a desperate state right now and clearly needs more love and attention than a few volunteers can give it. I doubt it’s even safe in some areas. Money for infrastructure is dearly needed and I think their fresh approach could also restore some feel good factor into the club which is often in short supply.
Do I want to be playing Slough Town in a few years? Preferably not ... then again it wasn’t the worst time in the world was it?
Reading back through this post I guess I’m conflicted but cautiously optimistic.
on the plus side I suppose, it's in their very best interests to make the next few months as good as they can possibly be for Wycombe, so we might as well enjoy it while we can
The Legacy Members vote is expected to be after Rob, Pete Couhig (his nephew) and Mark Palmer have been been involved for 6-9 months- therefore probably around Easter time next year.
I am much more optimistic than @eric_plant that 75% in favour is achievable. My optimism is based on a combination of the impressive energy and dynamism of the Couhigs and the value of Mark Palmer’s knowledge and experience of “the football industry” which I feel sure will together lead to significant improvements in the financial situation and general running of the club. They will undoubtedly find some of their goals difficult, if not impossible, to achieve but the strength of their drive and commitment were plain to see and they deserve our wholehearted backing, at least for the 6-9 month “probationary period”.
I don’t think, as members, we were expecting the involvement of Peter Couhig, an interesting character whose mission entails a commitment to Cost Benefit Analysis, reducing costs and optimising income by improved efficiency, something which I think may have been slightly lacking hitherto. He will be providing his services free of charge for a year and, if I understood it correctly, will be based here (or at least spend much of his time here). He became quite emotional when referring to his 18,15 and 12 year old children.
I tend to agree with @eric_plant regarding the Italian guy who spoke no English but I suppose we can excuse a little theatricality. Mr Couhig’s delightful wife, Missy, also chipped in on that score.
As someone else has commented, ten times more impressive than Bill and Ben.
@Cambridge_Blue said:
That'll be handy when we need to start a new club.
This arrangement sounds horrendous, I can't believe we are doing all this again.
Still waiting to hear your alternative solution to our outstanding debt and lack of capital going forward.
The situation with Yeovil was fully explained and, on the face of it, shamefully handled by the club. Three supporters’ groups and the players were in favour of the involvement of Messrs Couhig and Palmer but a few board members wanted to carry on as they had been, not entirely successfully it would seem.
@James said:
Perhaps @eric_plant & @Chris should campaign for a positive vote for this guy then ? I am sure they understand there will always be risk ,but that the alternative is a derby against Slough town in a few years , or no club ... come on guys , the fan owned model is not working . Do you expect any investment from any other party to be any better ? you guys need to smell the coffee !
James no discrespect intended but I think that you are missing the point here. Well aware that without additional funds it could be Slough that we could be facing in a year or two The real issue is that any prudent Board would have a plan B up their sleeve just in case or are we just intending being in debt up to our eyeballs which makes any takeover inevitable with no viable alternative at time of takeover. We haven't heard anything as yet from the Board on this. Whilst I was impressed by the knowledge, professionalism and passion that was expressed by the prospective buyers last night and I would certainly like to see this succeed, for all parties, we need to think through all potential outcomes and act in the best I interests of the club. Just letting it happen is not the best approach in my opinion.
@micra said:
The situation with Yeovil was fully explained and, on the face of it, shamefully handled by the club. Three supporters’ groups and the players were in favour of the involvement of Messrs Couhig and Palmer but a few board members wanted to carry on as they had been, not entirely successfully it would seem.
I thought Mark Palmer has been helping them since 2017? Was that mentioned?
Yes the Yeovil issue was raised more than once and at least to my ears, Rob provided an honest and plausible explanation. There was never any real involvement with Yeovil as it didn't reach that stage. (This edited to add that the above response to @StrongestTeam's question has dropped out of phase and @micra has now provided a similar response)
@eric_plant said:
I would like to know the immediate state of the club's finances that led the board to accept a loan/loans from the proposed investors.
If it was anything other than the life or death of the club then it seems reckless to me.
As I said though, I could be missing something
According to M Davies. Everything since the end of the season has been bought on tick. We don’t even have 50p
Interesting mix of showmanship and pragmatic belief last night. The cap and the Italy story was a classic disarming tactic and didn't really have to be true. I was a bit bothered about Rob being just a bit of a joker but his mask dropped a couple of times to show someone who I think does actually just want to be popular despite his comments to the contrary.
I fully expected to hate the football consultant but thought he came across pretty well and if he can get a youth set up back then he's doing well in my eyes. He skillfully avoided being at Yeovil for most of their relegation season so I'd like to know more.
Most of the money they are putting in is to pay existing debt so all we've done us transfer ownership of that. The Trust need to explain why it appears to be at worse terms.
The elephant in the room for me though was the minority share holding discussed in the press release. At the last meeting the Trust promised a vote on any offering like this. Last night showed the deal to be initially a debt one so no minority share but a major input in the running of the club. Also circumvents the vote promise.
Seems to me that we have no choice but to support this deal. Which I think is better than the club disappearing altogether.
As for those on here stating that we need to think this through before voting positively in Jan/April, then you are certainly in denial. We are already much further in debt by accepting the £300K so that horse has well and truly bolted.
Be thankful we have someone who wants to put hard cash and effort into the project and at the same time rid the club of the debt hanging over Adams Park.
The 500 club, although a very good gesture, did not raise enough funds to make a small scratch, so it is investment or no club, easy choice.
I agree with @eric_plant that a 75% vote will still be very difficult to achieve. Even if the new regime is a great success, there will always be members who don't vote and some who will always be opposed to losing control. When the vote takes place, we will be in debt to a huge amount, the consequences of a no vote do not bear thinking about.
What I cannot get my head around are the large amounts of money we are having to borrow just to keep afloat. £500k from L & C, £600k from Couhig, and more likely from him. Last season we received £1.39m from Premier League and EFL payments. Our playing budget was believed to be around £1.5m last season, although I am beginning to doubt that now and think it may be more. Is this borrowing required just for wages, playing and office staff? Couhig said we lost £700k last season, £400k the season before, so presumably his loan is covering that.
On ground maintenance, I noticed that several ridge tiles are missing from the roof by the Caledonian Suite entrance, exposing an open seam. That needs fixing, like, today as any rain will cause damage.
Overall won't we will only be in increased debt, more than we would without the Couhig involvement, by the amount it's been agreed to increase the playing budget for this year?
All the other debt is being aggregated into a single debt rather than several different debts, but it hasn't increased.
As regards to the terms of the debt, I'm not sure we can say how it compares to the Luby & Collis debt because we don't know if interest might be accrued on that. Or do we?
I wonder if the need to put in two loans of £300k each might be to meet the EFL rules about prospective owners having to demonstrate the necessary funding to finance the club (something the EFL didn't do at Bury it seems)?
It's been asked if the Trust have a plan B.
Maybe the answer to that is to go into liquidation and try to rise again as a phoenix club, with no debt, but playing at a lower level.
Don't forget that the Couhig money is going to be used to clear the £150k (?) debt to Chairboys funders(?).
It's usually assumed when asking the "Do we have a plan B?" question that the answer will be a plan to continue as a league club, but it doesn't have to be.
I know for sure that it was the opinion of certain ex Trust Board members that this was the ONLY option which was actually sustainable for us.
@Cambridge_Blue said:
That'll be handy when we need to start a new club.
This arrangement sounds horrendous, I can't believe we are doing all this again.
Still waiting to hear your alternative solution to our outstanding debt and lack of capital going forward.
Cut the playing budget to an affordable level. If we lost £700k last year then the club is not being managed well enough.
@Cambridge_Blue said:
That'll be handy when we need to start a new club.
This arrangement sounds horrendous, I can't believe we are doing all this again.
Still waiting to hear your alternative solution to our outstanding debt and lack of capital going forward.
Cut the playing budget to an affordable level. If we lost £700k last year then the club is not being managed well enough.
We have already cut the playing budget by almost a third giving us easily the lowest budget in League One and lower than most in League Two. Any further substantial cuts would put us below the level of many National League clubs. The likely consequences of such action are obvious.
It's been mentioned by @JohnnyAllAlone that all their time over the next nine months comes 'at no cost,' thats not true is it? what am i missing?
I understand that things never really got going from an investment standpoint at Yeovil, but Palmer was involved in the football side of things wasn't he? Did anyone ask how Gareth felt about having a football consultant hanging around?
@Cambridge_Blue said:
That'll be handy when we need to start a new club.
This arrangement sounds horrendous, I can't believe we are doing all this again.
Still waiting to hear your alternative solution to our outstanding debt and lack of capital going forward.
Cut the playing budget to an affordable level. If we lost £700k last year then the club is not being managed well enough.
We have already cut the playing budget by almost a third giving us easily the lowest budget in League One and lower than most in League Two. Any further substantial cuts would put us below the level of many National League clubs. The likely consequences of such action are obvious.
What leads you to believe that the club would still exist?
We’ve been perilously close to administration more than once. Are you saying you’d be happy to see us drop down through the leagues?
@floyd Ok so there is a cost for their time if we do not take up the offer.....max 17.5 per cent of what we borrow.
Mark Palmer is not a Football Consultant but a Football Industry Consultant. The former implies that he is involved in team affairs etc. They were all going to great lengths to explain that was not the case and that Gareth was in charge of that side.
@glasshalffull said:
What leads you to believe that the club would still exist?
We’ve been perilously close to administration more than once. Are you saying you’d be happy to see us drop down through the leagues?
Wycombe Wanderers would still exist because we exist. Wycombe Wanderers the football club is not Wycombe Wanderers the business. Surely it can't still surprise you that many of us don't view progress up the leagues as the be all and end all.
Comments
Oh and most importantly, the stadium remains in the hands of the Trust
I wasn't there last night. For me it is a quite straight forward decision. Do we go forward or backwards?
That'll be handy when we need to start a new club.
This arrangement sounds horrendous, I can't believe we are doing all this again.
It was razzmatazz of the highest order - the likes of which have not been seen in the Vere since Lewis Montrose poured a celebratory milkshake over his semi-naked torso.
These guys are charming and infectious. Then again people say that about a lot of folk in positions of power. For what it’s worth I think it’s a reasonable position to be in right now. We will have an exciting few months and we will get to see if this external charm is a veneer or the real deal.
Our stadium is in a desperate state right now and clearly needs more love and attention than a few volunteers can give it. I doubt it’s even safe in some areas. Money for infrastructure is dearly needed and I think their fresh approach could also restore some feel good factor into the club which is often in short supply.
Do I want to be playing Slough Town in a few years? Preferably not ... then again it wasn’t the worst time in the world was it?
Reading back through this post I guess I’m conflicted but cautiously optimistic.
I would like to know the immediate state of the club's finances that led the board to accept a loan/loans from the proposed investors.
If it was anything other than the life or death of the club then it seems reckless to me.
As I said though, I could be missing something
on the plus side I suppose, it's in their very best interests to make the next few months as good as they can possibly be for Wycombe, so we might as well enjoy it while we can
Anyone know if Ivor’s been on holiday to Italy recently?
that was total nonsense wasn't it?
The Legacy Members vote is expected to be after Rob, Pete Couhig (his nephew) and Mark Palmer have been been involved for 6-9 months- therefore probably around Easter time next year.
I am much more optimistic than @eric_plant that 75% in favour is achievable. My optimism is based on a combination of the impressive energy and dynamism of the Couhigs and the value of Mark Palmer’s knowledge and experience of “the football industry” which I feel sure will together lead to significant improvements in the financial situation and general running of the club. They will undoubtedly find some of their goals difficult, if not impossible, to achieve but the strength of their drive and commitment were plain to see and they deserve our wholehearted backing, at least for the 6-9 month “probationary period”.
I don’t think, as members, we were expecting the involvement of Peter Couhig, an interesting character whose mission entails a commitment to Cost Benefit Analysis, reducing costs and optimising income by improved efficiency, something which I think may have been slightly lacking hitherto. He will be providing his services free of charge for a year and, if I understood it correctly, will be based here (or at least spend much of his time here). He became quite emotional when referring to his 18,15 and 12 year old children.
I tend to agree with @eric_plant regarding the Italian guy who spoke no English but I suppose we can excuse a little theatricality. Mr Couhig’s delightful wife, Missy, also chipped in on that score.
As someone else has commented, ten times more impressive than Bill and Ben.
Did anyone ask him about how his expertise helped Yeovil?
Still waiting to hear your alternative solution to our outstanding debt and lack of capital going forward.
The situation with Yeovil was fully explained and, on the face of it, shamefully handled by the club. Three supporters’ groups and the players were in favour of the involvement of Messrs Couhig and Palmer but a few board members wanted to carry on as they had been, not entirely successfully it would seem.
James no discrespect intended but I think that you are missing the point here. Well aware that without additional funds it could be Slough that we could be facing in a year or two The real issue is that any prudent Board would have a plan B up their sleeve just in case or are we just intending being in debt up to our eyeballs which makes any takeover inevitable with no viable alternative at time of takeover. We haven't heard anything as yet from the Board on this. Whilst I was impressed by the knowledge, professionalism and passion that was expressed by the prospective buyers last night and I would certainly like to see this succeed, for all parties, we need to think through all potential outcomes and act in the best I interests of the club. Just letting it happen is not the best approach in my opinion.
https://images.app.goo.gl/pTDVjimAMeuiYn3eA
I thought Mark Palmer has been helping them since 2017? Was that mentioned?
Yes the Yeovil issue was raised more than once and at least to my ears, Rob provided an honest and plausible explanation. There was never any real involvement with Yeovil as it didn't reach that stage. (This edited to add that the above response to @StrongestTeam's question has dropped out of phase and @micra has now provided a similar response)
According to M Davies. Everything since the end of the season has been bought on tick. We don’t even have 50p
Interesting mix of showmanship and pragmatic belief last night. The cap and the Italy story was a classic disarming tactic and didn't really have to be true. I was a bit bothered about Rob being just a bit of a joker but his mask dropped a couple of times to show someone who I think does actually just want to be popular despite his comments to the contrary.
I fully expected to hate the football consultant but thought he came across pretty well and if he can get a youth set up back then he's doing well in my eyes. He skillfully avoided being at Yeovil for most of their relegation season so I'd like to know more.
Most of the money they are putting in is to pay existing debt so all we've done us transfer ownership of that. The Trust need to explain why it appears to be at worse terms.
The elephant in the room for me though was the minority share holding discussed in the press release. At the last meeting the Trust promised a vote on any offering like this. Last night showed the deal to be initially a debt one so no minority share but a major input in the running of the club. Also circumvents the vote promise.
Seems to me that we have no choice but to support this deal. Which I think is better than the club disappearing altogether.
As for those on here stating that we need to think this through before voting positively in Jan/April, then you are certainly in denial. We are already much further in debt by accepting the £300K so that horse has well and truly bolted.
Be thankful we have someone who wants to put hard cash and effort into the project and at the same time rid the club of the debt hanging over Adams Park.
The 500 club, although a very good gesture, did not raise enough funds to make a small scratch, so it is investment or no club, easy choice.
I agree with @eric_plant that a 75% vote will still be very difficult to achieve. Even if the new regime is a great success, there will always be members who don't vote and some who will always be opposed to losing control. When the vote takes place, we will be in debt to a huge amount, the consequences of a no vote do not bear thinking about.
What I cannot get my head around are the large amounts of money we are having to borrow just to keep afloat. £500k from L & C, £600k from Couhig, and more likely from him. Last season we received £1.39m from Premier League and EFL payments. Our playing budget was believed to be around £1.5m last season, although I am beginning to doubt that now and think it may be more. Is this borrowing required just for wages, playing and office staff? Couhig said we lost £700k last season, £400k the season before, so presumably his loan is covering that.
On ground maintenance, I noticed that several ridge tiles are missing from the roof by the Caledonian Suite entrance, exposing an open seam. That needs fixing, like, today as any rain will cause damage.
Overall won't we will only be in increased debt, more than we would without the Couhig involvement, by the amount it's been agreed to increase the playing budget for this year?
All the other debt is being aggregated into a single debt rather than several different debts, but it hasn't increased.
As regards to the terms of the debt, I'm not sure we can say how it compares to the Luby & Collis debt because we don't know if interest might be accrued on that. Or do we?
I wonder if the need to put in two loans of £300k each might be to meet the EFL rules about prospective owners having to demonstrate the necessary funding to finance the club (something the EFL didn't do at Bury it seems)?
It's been asked if the Trust have a plan B.
Maybe the answer to that is to go into liquidation and try to rise again as a phoenix club, with no debt, but playing at a lower level.
Don't forget that the Couhig money is going to be used to clear the £150k (?) debt to Chairboys funders(?).
It's usually assumed when asking the "Do we have a plan B?" question that the answer will be a plan to continue as a league club, but it doesn't have to be.
I know for sure that it was the opinion of certain ex Trust Board members that this was the ONLY option which was actually sustainable for us.
Cut the playing budget to an affordable level. If we lost £700k last year then the club is not being managed well enough.
@Steve_Peart It was $700k and $400k respectively not GBP
We have already cut the playing budget by almost a third giving us easily the lowest budget in League One and lower than most in League Two. Any further substantial cuts would put us below the level of many National League clubs. The likely consequences of such action are obvious.
Huzzah the first 'smell the coffee' of the summer? Obviously not long to kick off.
It's been mentioned by @JohnnyAllAlone that all their time over the next nine months comes 'at no cost,' thats not true is it? what am i missing?
I understand that things never really got going from an investment standpoint at Yeovil, but Palmer was involved in the football side of things wasn't he? Did anyone ask how Gareth felt about having a football consultant hanging around?
So be it, at least the club will still exist.
What leads you to believe that the club would still exist?
We’ve been perilously close to administration more than once. Are you saying you’d be happy to see us drop down through the leagues?
@floyd Ok so there is a cost for their time if we do not take up the offer.....max 17.5 per cent of what we borrow.
Mark Palmer is not a Football Consultant but a Football Industry Consultant. The former implies that he is involved in team affairs etc. They were all going to great lengths to explain that was not the case and that Gareth was in charge of that side.
Wycombe Wanderers would still exist because we exist. Wycombe Wanderers the football club is not Wycombe Wanderers the business. Surely it can't still surprise you that many of us don't view progress up the leagues as the be all and end all.