Oh Dear. A Big win needed. Derek still moaning.
We don;t want this reputation in the Championship! :-)
https://www.metro.news/the-payne-game-fans-lose-out-when-wasting-time-wins/1415791/
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We don;t want this reputation in the Championship! :-)
https://www.metro.news/the-payne-game-fans-lose-out-when-wasting-time-wins/1415791/
Comments
What a (sore) loser.
While not wishing to tar all believers with the same brush, or put down anyone's faith, it seems odd that the two least charitable opposition managers lately have been self-proclaimed devout Christians. Maybe someone should remind Darling Derek that wrath is one of the seven deadly sins.
Adams is an odious losing excuse monkey
Whilst we are definitely not the only culprit in the league at time wasting, this continued "news" in the press is not going to help us.
It's akin to the yellow cards that seem to be waved at your Joey Barton/Lee Cattermole type players for something innocuous but because their reputation preceded them they'd get a yellow whereas others on the pitch would get a talking to.
If we get this rep it is going to be particularly difficult to get rid of, and I'm fairly certain we will get more scrutiny than our opponents in games between now and the end of the season.
I don't think it really gives us any major advantage, if anything the constant kicking away of the ball, diving and time delays seems to galvanise them. We managed to hold on against Plymouth, we may not be quite so lucky in other games...only time will tell
We're definitely not the only culprits - it's sadly just another common facet of the modern game now for teams holding onto a slender lead, but an early-ish yellow for Rocky at Blackpool put a stop to it. Up to refs to punish it really.
Be nice if they could also punish the continual shirt-pulling on Bayo.
"Surely, if the concern over a head injury is genuine, any player who goes down holding their head should be made to leave the pitch for treatment, as they are required to for any other kind of injury."
I'm pretty sure rule number one of a head injury is don't move.
Fair points @Commoner. I did wonder when reading your penultimate paragraph whether an FA or EFL representative might be due to come to Adams Park to deliver a few homilies but fairly quickly realised that you were referring to our reputation.
In general, I think we are about on a par with the majority of other clubs who struggle to win by “safe” margins but the jiggery pokery of our many goalkeepers seems to me to be all too blatant. I think the biscuit was taken by Yves Ma-Kalambay in that respect when, during a penalty shootout, he appeared to be having great difficulty adjusting his headband whilst wearing goalkeeping gloves. It slowly dawned on him that removing the gloves was the answer. For each penalty kick.
Incidentally, he also seems to be taking an inordinately long time to recover from a broken finger.
Hang on - if we are getting so much time tacked on at the end, surely it is not "time wasting" but rather "time re-allocation"?
I'm more angry with the shoddy journalism of Mr Payne (Adams is already dead to me). If I had more time I could ride a coach and horses through his arguments, and the spurious use of stats to back up his ridiculous argument.
However, for now, lets look at some recent matches... I'm ignoring the Plymouth game (as that has been well documented and anyone who was there could see that JJ had a nasty head injury, and Allsop was clattered in the back, then assaulted in mid-air. No referee is ever going to wave play-on in those circumstances, and that made up a significant amount of the added time.) The Doncaster game also had its fair share of incident, but the 9 minutes of added time cannot significantly be attributed to accumulated time-wasting from Wycombe when we were behind for 88 minutes of the game. So... looking at more 'run-of-the-mill' games that we either won or were winning for a significant period recently (Gillingham, Rovers, Blackpool) - these contributed 17 minutes added time in total. In comparison, Plymouth's last three wins before last weekend accumulated 18 minutes. Which team is wasting more time? Fairly even, I'd say. Delving deeper, the 3 games we lost over Xmas (our opposition, in theory, in the position to 'manage the game') accumulated a collective 22 minutes of added time... Not us time wasting, was it?
My point is that you can do a lot with stats, but because of this, you can't just throw out a random figure for time added on and say unilaterally 'what a bunch of time-wasters' when that figure doesn't accurately demonstrate the spurious point being made. Shame on you, Mr Payne, for presenting an Adams-friendly position, whilst ignoring that hypocritical ball-boy instruction from the odious Scot a couple of seasons ago.
I'm not saying we are angels. And the goalkeeping point made by @micra is a good one. But I've seen just about every team do this in similar circumstances, so why is Gareth's picture directly underneath the headline, as if he's the only one...?
But please, now, can this subject be finally put to bed??
This is so true and one of the main reasons why I think that chant ‘We’re time wasting b......s, we know what we are’ is only perpetuating our reputation.
Well said @LeedsBlue . I get the distinct impression Mr. Payne didn't deign to watch the match against Plymouth that he takes great delight in recounting, or if he did he was wearing some green tinted sunglasses.
Well said LeedsBlue, that was lazy journalism at its worst.
There was an excellent reference to this from @oilysailor on 'The Totally Football Show' podcast yesterday
Everyone learns in their first lesson in history class to first ask "what angle is this written from" of any text, and it's pretty obvious it's more Plymouth bitterness, so can be disregarded.
Probably want to keep it sensible this weekend though. Just so this doesn't start building, as the first thing the Rovers fan at my work the other week was about how we clearly have a set of gamesmanship plays.
If one team say it, it's bitter, if a few do, it becomes accepted.
I remember it with Howard Webb. He got such a false reputation for being a United friendly ref, that near the end he was actually going quite far the other way. Yet the reputation stuck.
We need to start calling it Ainsworth time. Strangely they never called Fergie Time time-wasting.
Wasn't Fergie Time additional time added on for seemingly no reason to allow United more time to score?
I Don't think that team wasted any time! It was everyone else wasting time against them!
Sean Dyche is a skilled proponent of the art. Must have set records for how few goals they scored that other season!
Who gives a shit what a other people think especially a fat Scottish wanker...... gaz shows his class by rising above it...
Anyone who forms genuine beliefs based on what they read in the Metro is not worthy of our concern.
Another point being ignored in this, is that time is also added on for substitutions and goal scored. WWFC have been involved in a fair number of fairly high scoring games. Six substitutions in a game is 3 added minutes. 5 goals would add about the same amount of time. A games can therefore have about 6 added minutes without any time wasting.
I also noticed that during the Plymouth game the away fans were counting the second that Rocky held on to the ball. The ball is not out of play and reasonable time is allowed. By contrast Plymouth spent the first hour playing the ball out from the back with short goal kicks, then took 5-7 passes across the back four to reach the half way line (usually to lose the ball at that point). Again this counts as ball in play, and seems to be totally acceptable but is hardly the beautiful game advocated by the holier than thou whinging DA. At goal kicks we will take our time, then punt the ball three quarters of the length of the pitch, I have never understood how this manages to waste so much time, when passing the ball across the back line would take up even more.
When we lose GA looks to see what we did wrong and works to correct it in time for the next game. DA deflects from his own failings by blaming everyone else. I know which approach I prefer.
I'm laughing at Plymouth's bitterness as much as anyone @bluenotes , but you can't possibly equate a goalie taking his time for taking a kick, whether it's in hands, or on the floor from a goal kick, to players passing it around at the back!
There's a humongous difference. You can close down the short passing, you can't do jack when the ball is in someone's hands, or awaiting a goal kick!
I don't entirely disagree with your point @Malone, but unless you are chasing the game why bother closing down the opposition in their own half when they are posing no threat? DA's complaint was (supposedly) about lack of flow and entertainment value. What did Plymouth add to either?
Well, yes that's a good point. Lower level managers talking about entertainment are certainly creating a rod from their own back!
Interesting to note that on two separate occasions last week Plymouth players were booked for cynically hauling down pacey Wycombe strikers in-flight, ball at their feet, in full-on crowd pleasing attack mode. Just two random examples of Wycombe wanting to play the beautiful game, but thwarted by Adams’ players and their blatant anti-football tactics.
And yes, I know we do it too - but that’s the point of this whole debate, we are being singled out, when it’s a football wide issue, and why it shows up Adams as such an ignorant hypocrite.
I think you should ask Klopp and Guardiola that. Whole team pressing the opposition, deep into their own territory are key components of there tactics. Suppress the counterattack, stop the opposition moving your players around the pitch to create holes, force errors in your oppositions half to meaning you build your attack closer to the oppositions goal.
I’m no expert, but it works quite well for them.
It requires very high work rate, fitness and intelligence however.
It certainly seems a much more positive approach than what Mourinho seemed to be doing, which was have as little of the ball as possible, as he thought having the ball means you make more mistakes.
@TheDancingYak, indeed. If only we had a few million quid to afford the players to do it. I somehow don't see Bayo chasing down the ball played across the back four.
It’s less bayo and more your back line you need to worry about.
The key to it is a high back line so that you compress the opposition into there own half - but leaves you open to the ol’ Route one. You need to have defenders that are as quick as traditional striker or wingers.
Bayo wouldn’t be that effective and than a (younger) Tyson/Kashket/PCH/ Samual granted, but if you can comfortably use a high line closing down the opposition in there half - making the pitch your playing in smaller, is a valid tactic. This is also why the ball playing “sweeper keeper” thing is more prevelent. They two can work to help snuff out the long ball route. If you’re able to do the pressing well, you end up limiting the other team to hit and hope long balls, rather than directed ones.
We already make the pitch we're playing in smaller, by...literally reducing the touchlines!!strange font and highlighting!