But if it was me and I felt I had been unfairly treated by a couple of individuals behind the back of the trust board and I really wanted to take partial ownership of the entity and I believed my proposal was better than the alternative, then I would have taken one of the many opportunities to state my case (either directly or through my associates)
If however I felt that a reasonable process had taken place, or if my interest was lukewarm or less or if I felt that frankly the other bid was better for the club, I would have done precisely what Harman has done - nothing.
I am not overly interested in @marlowchair or @NiceCarrots per se. I am irritated though if their intervention obstructs proper discussion of a very important decision that needs to be made soon. I am particularly irritated if they give false hope of a better deal being available if the voters reject this one. There seems to be no evidence that there is.
If Harman has a deal to propose that he feels is better than the alternative and feels has not received due consideration, let him make that clear publically. There is another meeting this week which provides a perfect opportunity. It does feel like put up or shut up time.
Be interesting to know who does and does not have a vote on the Gasroom. Once we have that information and have collated it and looked at it statistically, we will still have no bloody idea what will happen in January. Fascinating
Ok. So ownership debate getting no where fast here. As no one knows anyone and have alias names to real life. Unless you are actually called Mr Carrots or Wendoverman.
A simple yes or no is required. American take over or not.
No comments needed
As we have not seen the proposal as yet, and no-one knows anyone and no-one knows who of us actually has a vote or not I fear any Gasroom poll would be untrustworthy. Having said that if @DevC 'Harman' or @TrueBlu 's 'yankees' actually read this vitally important club mouthpiece, I do have a vote, but few scruples and am open to bribery at the right price!
Much of what marlow says is about to happen or has happened turns out to be at least partially true although the reasons for anything are nearly always just opinion to be taken back or inferred only. Nice to agitate though as we get some more info each time.
Have to agree with Dev that if the trust board as a majority don't agree with the proposal or direction of travel, or individuals believe they are being railroaded or decieved, or that their colleagues aren't acting in the best interests of the club they should be making an almighty racket if not resigning. As usual though we don't know any of that to be the case.
As for any vote or trying to move the debate along without real new facts some patience is required.
And lets not do down the gasrooms influence. At least one player that people on here critized went on to leave the club at some stage many months later.
@Wendoverman said:
As we have not seen the proposal as yet, and no-one knows anyone and no-one knows who of us actually has a vote or not I fear any Gasroom poll would be untrustworthy. Having said that if @DevC 'Harman' or @TrueBlu 's 'yankees' actually read this vitally important club mouthpiece, I do have a vote, but few scruples and am open to bribery at the right price!
And lets not do down the gasrooms influence. At least one player that people on here criticised went on to leave the club at some stage many months later.
And more pertinently JJ has obviously responded by using his right foot
@bookertease said:
Reading between the varying lines and making a lot of assumptions of my own, Mr Harman does appear to have been involved with some part of the potential investor discussions to the effect that he (or his consortium) is one of the three potential investors that was being taken, at least on face value, seriously.
As a best guess on what has been said on here, this seems to have manifested itself as a minority share bid.
If (I know its a big 'if') this is the case he has been effectively (knowingly or otherwise) trumped by the decision of the Trust board (albeit unanimously or via majority vote) to have decided that a majority share bid would be the most beneficial for the club.
Where I struggle with this is that for Mr Harman to have got to this stage it doesn't really seem to demonstrate a breakdown of relationships between "alpha males" or at least it does show that parties who are reported to dislike each other are willing to continue to work together in some way.
In this scenario, it would be interesting to know if the Harman consortium had the rug pulled from under their feet so to speak and would have been prepared to develop a viable majority bid (certainly I would guess from previous discussion on here this is the Marlow/Carrots view of things). My guess is that we may find out if and when the legacy members fail to vote through the American deal.
I’d suggest that the eventual resignation of the sporting director who was leading the power group with beeks and employee Stroud and who had the issue , coincided with the “third” option coming back on the table only very recently but as I said earlier it was very obviously a desperate re-inclusion when Stroud realised the US and Saudis May fall through after the sept 12 meeting
Again such negativity - it doesn't help. "Employee Stroud." That is unnecessarily personal and disrespectful whatever you may think of his capabilities. It MAY have been a desperate re-inclusion or it may have been a legitimate re-think. That paragraph.of yours, whatever 'truths' it may or may not contain is seeped in bile.
I genuinely think if you are not careful you could turn enough people off - assuming you are like this with everyone you meet and talk to - that they will ignore all of what you are saying and side with the club board.
But, again reading between the lines. Since Howard has left any personality clashes have ended or been diluted and the Harman Consortium have been happy to develop or put back on the table a potential bid which we have (in theory) considered but not gone with.
And lets not do down the gasrooms influence. At least one player that people on here critized went on to leave the club at some stage many months later.
Don't forget we've had a few player relatives posting on here before.
Definitely Will De Hav's brother, and we all suspect Yves relative has been on before too...
@bookertease said:
Again such negativity - it doesn't help. "Employee Stroud." That is unnecessarily personal and disrespectful whatever you may think of his capabilities. It MAY have been a desperate re-inclusion or it may have been a legitimate re-think. That paragraph.of yours, whatever 'truths' it may or may not contain is seeped in bile.
I genuinely think if you are not careful you could turn enough people off - assuming you are like this with everyone you meet and talk to - that they will ignore all of what you are saying and side with the club board.
But, again reading between the lines. Since Howard has left any personality clashes have ended or been diluted and the Harman Consortium have been happy to develop or put back on the table a potential bid which we have (in theory) considered but not gone with.
You criticise me for not supporting facts yet when I state fact “employee Stroud “ which is very relevant , you dismiss it as personal and steeped in bile ...
Ridiculous.
All bets were off in September , the mishandling had alienated all parties.
We have been desperate ever since ,and the US guys know it and have taken full advantage .
I’ve said I don’t care either way for them , the Saudis or Harmin . It’s not about that, I gave up on a satisfactory outcome being negotiated a while ago and made that clear .
Our board have butchered this incredibly, from the financial mismanagement , poor operational management , leadership void to the basic lack of core competency to oversee a task so important to our club .
The trust directors who do recognise this are slow to affect change and frustrated.
If you think I’m in this to foil the US bid you’re mistaken. Despite ( and due to ) no objective , independent or thorough process to locate and identify the best possible market bids for our club ,It’s our only hope , and those responsible should hang their collective heads in Shame and history will judge them on this disastrous period of governance and mismanagement in our history .
Don Woodward looks like a genius compared to what we are currently witnessing.
I don't for one moment think you are here to foil the US bid @marlowchair. I think you are here to place Trevor Stroud's head on a pike.
If you really can't see the insult implicit in how you phrased that wording I really do worry about you.
And I get it I think. I know this is how you see the world and that your brain has pieced together all these inputs and reached the conclusions that it has which you are then trying to scream from the rafters.
The daft thing about this is that your interpretation could be 100% spot on for all I know, but to my eyes and metaphorical ears all I see and hear is the rantings and ravings of an obsessive. (I did delete 'lunatic' there as it was a little unfair!).
Not for one moment do I think that the trust have handled this process right, but I doubt they do either. I am worried about the puppet master in the background but I also imagine that the trust have acted in what they think is the best way forward for the club.
I don't buy that we are significantly worse run off the field than we were a year or so ago - I think and accept that the positive picture last year was spin that suited the board at the time in the same way as the negative spin suits them now, but the underlying operational losses seem fairly constant.
Lots of questions that still need to be asked and answered about how we got here and where we go, but lets concentrate on asking the right ones and not making up our own answers.
@marlowchair , just to be clear, do I understand that from where we are now, you would advocate accepting the Luby bid?
@bookertease , generally very good post. Out of interest in what way do you think the process has not been handled right. I have no inside information and nothing is ever done perfectly with benefit of hindsight, but IF you accept outside investment is required, not sure on the face of it you are going to much better than what we have found. Obviously time will tell.
Comments
No that is true, @HCblue.
But if it was me and I felt I had been unfairly treated by a couple of individuals behind the back of the trust board and I really wanted to take partial ownership of the entity and I believed my proposal was better than the alternative, then I would have taken one of the many opportunities to state my case (either directly or through my associates)
If however I felt that a reasonable process had taken place, or if my interest was lukewarm or less or if I felt that frankly the other bid was better for the club, I would have done precisely what Harman has done - nothing.
I am not overly interested in @marlowchair or @NiceCarrots per se. I am irritated though if their intervention obstructs proper discussion of a very important decision that needs to be made soon. I am particularly irritated if they give false hope of a better deal being available if the voters reject this one. There seems to be no evidence that there is.
If Harman has a deal to propose that he feels is better than the alternative and feels has not received due consideration, let him make that clear publically. There is another meeting this week which provides a perfect opportunity. It does feel like put up or shut up time.
The facts seem to be everyone is making stuff up.
I don't think anyone has ever overestimated the influence of the gasroom as much as Dev
go to games and talk to people Dev, vast majority will have never heard of Andy Harman, nice carrots, or indeed the gasroom
@eric_plant claims ' Gasroom not that important' shock!
@DevC you could call him Mr Harman....he's done nothing to you. As far as I know.
@Wendoverman it really shouldn't need saying!
Be interesting to know who does and does not have a vote on the Gasroom. Once we have that information and have collated it and looked at it statistically, we will still have no bloody idea what will happen in January. Fascinating
Ok. So ownership debate getting no where fast here. As no one knows anyone and have alias names to real life. Unless you are actually called Mr Carrots or Wendoverman.
A simple yes or no is required. American take over or not.
No comments needed
As we have not seen the proposal as yet, and no-one knows anyone and no-one knows who of us actually has a vote or not I fear any Gasroom poll would be untrustworthy. Having said that if @DevC 'Harman' or @TrueBlu 's 'yankees' actually read this vitally important club mouthpiece, I do have a vote, but few scruples and am open to bribery at the right price!
@trueblu do you not think we need to know how much money they are putting in and for what percentage of the club?
Minor details admittedly
I have a vote. More than that I am not prepared to disclose.
Much of what marlow says is about to happen or has happened turns out to be at least partially true although the reasons for anything are nearly always just opinion to be taken back or inferred only. Nice to agitate though as we get some more info each time.
Have to agree with Dev that if the trust board as a majority don't agree with the proposal or direction of travel, or individuals believe they are being railroaded or decieved, or that their colleagues aren't acting in the best interests of the club they should be making an almighty racket if not resigning. As usual though we don't know any of that to be the case.
As for any vote or trying to move the debate along without real new facts some patience is required.
And lets not do down the gasrooms influence. At least one player that people on here critized went on to leave the club at some stage many months later.
I'll have a vote upon renewing my season ticket at the end of this season, if negotiations drag on that long.
I don't understand why the club board don't just write "We cold spend £350m a week on players if you vote yes" on the side of a bus.
Damn you beat me to it again
And more pertinently JJ has obviously responded by using his right foot
I thought the club board were running Project Fear? Don't confuse me more than I am already
I'm waiting for the "Nice Carrots, Marlow Chair and The Hornet Guy'" podcast, to answer a lot of my questions.
I have a vote, would currently not vote for any takeover as we simply don't know enough details about the bid.
I’d suggest that the eventual resignation of the sporting director who was leading the power group with beeks and employee Stroud and who had the issue , coincided with the “third” option coming back on the table only very recently but as I said earlier it was very obviously a desperate re-inclusion when Stroud realised the US and Saudis May fall through after the sept 12 meeting
"it was very obviously"
Again such negativity - it doesn't help. "Employee Stroud." That is unnecessarily personal and disrespectful whatever you may think of his capabilities. It MAY have been a desperate re-inclusion or it may have been a legitimate re-think. That paragraph.of yours, whatever 'truths' it may or may not contain is seeped in bile.
I genuinely think if you are not careful you could turn enough people off - assuming you are like this with everyone you meet and talk to - that they will ignore all of what you are saying and side with the club board.
But, again reading between the lines. Since Howard has left any personality clashes have ended or been diluted and the Harman Consortium have been happy to develop or put back on the table a potential bid which we have (in theory) considered but not gone with.
Definitely the top post of the page.
Don't forget we've had a few player relatives posting on here before.
Definitely Will De Hav's brother, and we all suspect Yves relative has been on before too...
Scowen’s dad was ace.
You criticise me for not supporting facts yet when I state fact “employee Stroud “ which is very relevant , you dismiss it as personal and steeped in bile ...
Ridiculous.
All bets were off in September , the mishandling had alienated all parties.
We have been desperate ever since ,and the US guys know it and have taken full advantage .
I’ve said I don’t care either way for them , the Saudis or Harmin . It’s not about that, I gave up on a satisfactory outcome being negotiated a while ago and made that clear .
Our board have butchered this incredibly, from the financial mismanagement , poor operational management , leadership void to the basic lack of core competency to oversee a task so important to our club .
The trust directors who do recognise this are slow to affect change and frustrated.
If you think I’m in this to foil the US bid you’re mistaken. Despite ( and due to ) no objective , independent or thorough process to locate and identify the best possible market bids for our club ,It’s our only hope , and those responsible should hang their collective heads in Shame and history will judge them on this disastrous period of governance and mismanagement in our history .
Don Woodward looks like a genius compared to what we are currently witnessing.
We reveal most about ourselves when we speak about others.
I don't for one moment think you are here to foil the US bid @marlowchair. I think you are here to place Trevor Stroud's head on a pike.
If you really can't see the insult implicit in how you phrased that wording I really do worry about you.
And I get it I think. I know this is how you see the world and that your brain has pieced together all these inputs and reached the conclusions that it has which you are then trying to scream from the rafters.
The daft thing about this is that your interpretation could be 100% spot on for all I know, but to my eyes and metaphorical ears all I see and hear is the rantings and ravings of an obsessive. (I did delete 'lunatic' there as it was a little unfair!).
Not for one moment do I think that the trust have handled this process right, but I doubt they do either. I am worried about the puppet master in the background but I also imagine that the trust have acted in what they think is the best way forward for the club.
I don't buy that we are significantly worse run off the field than we were a year or so ago - I think and accept that the positive picture last year was spin that suited the board at the time in the same way as the negative spin suits them now, but the underlying operational losses seem fairly constant.
Lots of questions that still need to be asked and answered about how we got here and where we go, but lets concentrate on asking the right ones and not making up our own answers.
Please.
Pretty please?
And sorry everyone else. I do see the irony in the use of 'obsessive' and 'lunatic' in close proximity. (It's my tablets)
@marlowchair , just to be clear, do I understand that from where we are now, you would advocate accepting the Luby bid?
@bookertease , generally very good post. Out of interest in what way do you think the process has not been handled right. I have no inside information and nothing is ever done perfectly with benefit of hindsight, but IF you accept outside investment is required, not sure on the face of it you are going to much better than what we have found. Obviously time will tell.
Not once in putting my opinion over here have I resorted to any kind of personal commentary on the character or perceived habits of anyone .
Using mental health and clinically diagnosed illnesses to try and discredit my opinion is low.
I find your post highly offensive Booker and i’m done.
That Dev needs to jump in to follow on your low blow with a kick doesn’t surprise.
Good luck with everything I hope it works out .