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WWFC Accounts

For those who have not seen it, the accounts have been posted via the trust website for the football club. As anticipated they show a loss. http://wycombewandererstrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/WWFC-Accounts-30.6.18-Copy-for-shareholders.pdf

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Comments

  • Perhaps I am missing something, but there is a line on page 8 that says:

    "they [the directors] have a reasonable expectation that the company has the adequate resources to continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future"

    This completely contradicts all that was said in the Trust meeting in September?

  • Indeed I saw that but ahead of all that the accountants have put in a warning about the company being a going concern.

  • Perhaps I am missing something, but there is a line on page 8 that says:

    "they [the directors] have a reasonable expectation that the company has the adequate resources to continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future"

    This completely contradicts all that was said in the Trust meeting in September?

    Well spotted Tom, But from a ยฃ1m profit in the previous year to a ยฃ650k loss last year isn't going to be sustainable for too much longer

  • Don't read too much into the going concern statement, Tom - just accounting.

    Slightly odd that the football club accounts are published but not FALL's which is where the debt is held. It would be interesting to see how this years loss has been funded.

    Marginally good I suppose to see the underlying loss reduced by ยฃ100k or so, but at ยฃ650k or so, still a huge number (as said previously equivalent to an extra 1500 attendance per game, or an extra ยฃ6 per head per game, or perhaps 8-10 less senior players - scary stuff).

    While transfer fees are by their nature lumpy, depressing to see transfer income fall to effectively zero. Although O'Nien will have raised a little this year, hard to see any major windfalls this season either.

  • @DevC said:
    Don't read too much into the going concern statement, Tom - just accounting.

    Slightly odd that the football club accounts are published but not FALL's which is where the debt is held. It would be interesting to see how this years loss has been funded.

    Marginally good I suppose to see the underlying loss reduced by ยฃ100k or so, but at ยฃ650k or so, still a huge number (as said previously equivalent to an extra 1500 attendance per game, or an extra ยฃ6 per head per game, or perhaps 8-10 less senior players - scary stuff).

    While transfer fees are by their nature lumpy, depressing to see transfer income fall to effectively zero. Although O'Nien will have raised a little this year, hard to see any major windfalls this season either.

    FALL's accounts are signed off @DevC and will be published as soon as signed copy is received back from auditors who are filing them at Co House. See also http://www.wycombewandererstrust.com/2018/10/audited-accounts-fye-30th-june-2018

  • Excellent. As soon as possible Alan please. Given the structure it gives the whole picture.

    Incidentally both Fall and WWFC appear to meet the criteria for not needing an audit. In which case perhaps an opportunity for saving a few quid by not bothering next year.

  • Thank you very much Alan. ยฃ650k annual underlying loss is definitely scary and unsustainable.

  • It's interesting to see that admin expenses are down 500k, but cost of sales has increased by 400k.

    Does anyone know what the breakdown is between COS and admin expenses? Is COS playing staff only?

  • Not sure why we are losing that much considering the cutbacks we had to make seems like that was all for nothing.

  • @trevor
    It got a massively unsustainable situation less unsustainable.

    Did you think it'd be as simple as getting to profit, that easily?

  • So we need to win the League, the TOOLKITOVERALLS CUP, beat Luton and get City away in the FA Cup? Draw and being them back to AP? Simples.

  • My question is why have we allowed the squad size to increase to the size it is (26), if we knew we did not have the income to support it. I accept Gareth needs all the support he can get but if the clubs future is at risk what is the point of allowing the squad size to increase to its current level? Players wages must be the biggest outgoing

  • @HG1 I am no businessman but I as far as I understand it all business is a tricky...well...business. I suspect this is Speculate to accumulate. A calculated risk that some would welcome and some believe the thin end of the wedge. The problem is however well run the burger bar, sponsorship, hospitality end of things is...without challenging for cups or promotion with decent players and results it will be all be somewhat futile...and without challenging for cups and promotion with decent players and results...you might not attract investors...or more customers. It's the Football Club balancing act.

  • We have gambled like most other clubs do, in the hope that we stay in this division AND have a decent cup run or manage to sell a player for a substantial profit.

  • We really good a strong commercial manager in place to promote the club to look at the long term drive of Wycombe in the community.

    In my opinion there is an opportunity to add 300-500 on the gates year on year in ticket sales with increased food and beverage sales on top.

    Also why do with not promote the facilities locally for rental for birthday parties etc. Surely local kids would love to meet the hero's etc and package it up with catering and disco at cost per hire. Local businesses could use the meeting rooms etc. These things have to be marketed 365 to retain turnover.

    I feel the reason we only have the core fan base is the lack of appeal to casuals and Fairweather's which every club needs to attract.

  • @fame_46 said:
    We really good a strong commercial manager in place to promote the club to look at the long term drive of Wycombe in the community.

    In my opinion there is an opportunity to add 300-500 on the gates year on year in ticket sales with increased food and beverage sales on top.

    Also why do with not promote the facilities locally for rental for birthday parties etc. Surely local kids would love to meet the hero's etc and package it up with catering and disco at cost per hire. Local businesses could use the meeting rooms etc. These things have to be marketed 365 to retain turnover.

    I feel the reason we only have the core fan base is the lack of appeal to casuals and Fairweather's which every club needs to attract.

    Get ready for one of Dev's hastily typed up speculative spreadsheets.

  • @fame_46 said:
    I feel the reason we only have the core fan base is the lack of appeal to casuals and Fairweather's which every club needs to attract.

    Are you referring to Andy Fairweather Low's family once of Amen Corner?

  • @Malone said:
    @trevor
    It got a massively unsustainable situation less unsustainable.

    Did you think it'd be as simple as getting to profit, that easily?

    Did we owe alot of money before Hayes showed up then because I thought that money we paid him was all we owed and that our finances where healthy.

  • @HG1 said:
    My question is why have we allowed the squad size to increase to the size it is (26), if we knew we did not have the income to support it. I accept Gareth needs all the support he can get but if the clubs future is at risk what is the point of allowing the squad size to increase to its current level? Players wages must be the biggest outgoing

    How can player budget be blamed when the budget is always carefully planned out and we don't spend much on the player wages anyway compared to most lower League clubs.

  • Because lower league football as a whole is unsustainable, Trevor.

  • @Chris said:
    Because lower league football as a whole is unsustainable, Trevor.

    And what's the solution being suggested to us? Do what everybody else is doing

    This was another confusing part of the presentation for me.

    "All football league clubs are in financial trouble"

    "We need to be like other football league clubs"

  • @Chris said:
    Because lower league football as a whole is unsustainable, Trevor.

    so how are the other smaller clubs in the football league surviving then considering alot have less gates than us and less revenue plus they still have there youth setups also .

  • @fame_46 said:
    We really good a strong commercial manager in place to promote the club to look at the long term drive of Wycombe in the community.

    In my opinion there is an opportunity to add 300-500 on the gates year on year in ticket sales with increased food and beverage sales on top.

    Also why do with not promote the facilities locally for rental for birthday parties etc. Surely local kids would love to meet the hero's etc and package it up with catering and disco at cost per hire. Local businesses could use the meeting rooms etc. These things have to be marketed 365 to retain turnover.

    I feel the reason we only have the core fan base is the lack of appeal to casuals and Fairweather's which every club needs to attract.

    You might be right but I don't have any idea what's being done now, what's been tried, what hasn't and why.

    I don't want to speculate because I'm just not very informed.

  • @mooneyman I remember him - always wide-eyed and legless?
    @peterparrotface 'I don't want to speculate because I'm just not very informed'
    Reading that here on the Gasroom made me smile.

  • @trevor said:

    @Malone said:
    @trevor
    It got a massively unsustainable situation less unsustainable.

    Did you think it'd be as simple as getting to profit, that easily?

    Did we owe alot of money before Hayes showed up then because I thought that money we paid him was all we owed and that our finances where healthy.

    Why were you under the perception that Hayes was the only one we owed money to?

    Even if we only owed money to Hayes, do you think we quickly managed to turn a massive loss into sustainable over a few years?

    This "small budget" talk is used quite often, but I'd love to see if it's balanced against not having any reserve or youth team like other teams do.

    You only have to look at a cast of Bayo, Tyson, CMS, El Abd, Saunders etc to see we can't be that poor a payer.

  • From an aged memory, I believe we did owe somewhere between 1-2 million before Hayes, equally I could be well wide of the mark?

  • @Malone , you can see the preponderance of "experience strong" players two ways. it may be we are attracting them because we are high payers. it may be that we are attracting players who have generally made decent money already in their careers and now want to play a season or two more in the right area of the country with a manager who treats them like adults and are prepared to be paid a little less to get that. I think I favour the latter explanation, but pure speculation.

    Clubs that run reserve and youth teams presumably do so because they believe they get financial or playing benefit that justify doing so. Exeter (otherwise very similar to us) have made large sums from their your scheme in recent seasons.

    Experience has embittered me to the casual theory that throwing more marketing at it also solves a financial hole. I have tried it a few times. Never worked yet. Perhaps I have been unlucky. it is possible that having more marketing would deliver more through the gate and/or more commercial sponsorship but I would want to see some evidence before incurring the spend.

    @eric_plant said:

    @Chris said:
    Because lower league football as a whole is unsustainable, Trevor.

    And what's the solution being suggested to us? Do what everybody else is doing

    This was another confusing part of the presentation for me.

    "All football league clubs are in financial trouble"

    "We need to be like other football league clubs"

    Eric, you have a point but I don't see the alternative plan. Given the scale of what we are talking about (1500 extra supporters per game, OR ยฃ6 price increase OR 8-10 less senior players), what would you suggest we actually do, IF retaining our league place is considered vital.

  • @EwanHoosaami said:
    From an aged memory, I believe we did owe somewhere between 1-2 million before Hayes, equally I could be well wide of the mark?

    I thought that cleared after Hayes came in .

  • @trevor until he asked for it back.

  • @Malone - Of those players you mention, Tyson, CMS and Saunders are all nearing the end of their careers AND, more importantly, have had fairly major injury problems in recent years. Consequently, there would probably not be a huge number of clubs seeking to sign them, hence the wages they are demanding may not be as high as you think. Bayo has interests outside football so again wages may not be his prime objective, more perhaps being near London.

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