I am guessing that @ChasHarps is referring to ex-player Andy Harman, who sold his Annodata business to Kyocera last year. Annodata had a box here for several seasons.
Perhaps he was interested, but he met a crying Trevor Stroud (possibly having been pinched by AH) holding up a red bank statement and decided to let the mysterious 1,000 company man with the jaunty outlook take up the offer of a fun journey?
@StrongestTeam said:
How do we know this hasn't been declared to the board, I'm not sure the conflict of interest stuff means you have to ring up all supporters to disclose.
Difficult to say the finances have been an abject failure just because they are warning that current ownership may not be sustainable long term.
I'm as concerned as anyone about getting sold down the river but some of the reaching here is laughable.
@StrongestTeam and @micra, I am totally with you both on this. All the hysterical bemoaning from a few posters on here is pointless and merely deflecting attention from the salient fact that the support base at our club is not sufficient to fully sustain Trust ownership into the future. We have to remember that we are a professional league club and there are many people who earn their livelihood from it. Amateur opinions and messing around could have dire consequences and we have a duty of care to all those who earn their living from the club. Keyboard warriors with either a grudge or just Trolling to try and destabilize our club at a crucial time should make their points correctly at the AGM and at least try to step up to the plate to serve. Younger people who work are not willing to give the time required and/or don't have the expertise required. Some then come on here and are willing to criticize those incumbents for trying to support themselves whilst also trying to run a complex organization such as WWFC. In truth, part of the reason for the seeking of external support is that we must have full time professional management and fully resourced staff that are capable of taking the burden from the voluntary Board members not the other way around which is where we seem to be at present. Rant over and wait for the backlash!?
@micra no idea I've lost track myself...
I just cannot see the advantage for Mr Howard in bullying Mr Stroud or the Board to screw over the club etc etc. If his financial management has been a disaster, that is another thing, but it's not like we did not know we were struggling for money and needed Cup runs and sales to survive. Or was that just me?
And if we've got where we are while they ****ed up the budget over the five year plan...someone must have done something right.
Unless people are suggesting his championing of a certain mystery ownership bidder over another is for corrupt reasons or for a bung...
@Wendoverman said:
Far enough I suppose considering we've done so badly the last couple of seasons anyone would be worried about such an arrangement. Ownership of the club concerns me, but I cannot say I doubt AH motives though. Then again I'm quite thick and can't play golf.
@StrongestTeam said:
How do we know this hasn't been declared to the board, I'm not sure the conflict of interest stuff means you have to ring up all supporters to disclose.
Difficult to say the finances have been an abject failure just because they are warning that current ownership may not be sustainable long term.
I'm as concerned as anyone about getting sold down the river but some of the reaching here is laughable.
Mr Stroud just needs to show when and how it was declared.
But i can say confidently that it wasn’t declared and only came to light when another director let it slip at a meeting .
But even if you claim that is just unfounded scuttlebutt, at last years AGM TS himself spoke of a potential conflict with him being both trust and FC chairman so he did in fact warrant conflict of interest worthy of raising with the membership. So by choosing to talk about some conflict issues but not his own conflict of interest must raise questions surely?
If you don’t see an issue with that then I’m not sure anything a director of our club does or doesn’t do will ever upset you .
@Steve_Peart said:
I am guessing that @ChasHarps is referring to ex-player Andy Harman, who sold his Annodata business to Kyocera last year. Annodata had a box here for several seasons.
Harman must be worth a considerable amount now. A quick browse online suggests that at the time of sale, Annodata's annual revenue was somewhere in the region of £75-80 million per year.
I don't know what his share of the business was at the time of sale, but you'd expect a business with that turnover to have sold for £400m+?
In last night's Fans Council meeting, an update on the potential investors was provided by Trust Director Lawrie Read. Tony Hector was also present, but not Trevor Stroud who was meeting one of the parties last night.
Lawrie confirmed that there are three parties still very much in the running, so that third party in the background, discussed at the Trust Special meeting, seems to be no longer a 'maybe'. One of the parties, we were told, is very keen to get things moving.
New developments were that the potential investors may be introduced to fans, perhaps at a Fans Council meeting, before meeting Trust Members (I am a little uncomfortable with that idea). Also, the club have calculated that there are 818 season ticket holders who qualify as, but are not yet, Legacy Trust Members. A discussion followed on how best to get these people signed up as members, the Fans Council volunteered members for matchday 'face to face' selling, i.e. talking to people as they arrive at Adams Park and explaining how they can have a big say on the future of the club. Other methods of communication, such as mailshots, emails and even leaflets left on seats of these targeted season ticket holders, will be looked into.
With a current total of 561 Legacy Members, increasing that number significantly will probably increase the chances of getting the required 75% majority on any vote on investors. Any vote not cast would be a vote against the motion, the required 75% threshold is for all registered members, not just those voting on the night or by proxy. It was suggested that these 818 potential members are predominantly younger than the current members. I would suggest that younger members are more likely to vote for a motion, for change, but older members are more cautious due to their longer experience.
"The Japanese company is expected to buy Annodata through subsidiary Kyocera Document Solutions for around 10 billion yen ($87.7 million)."
That equates to £67 million in today's prices.
Thanks, very interesting. Seems my estimate was wildly over the top...
Also Steve, do you know how I can find out if I qualify as a legacy member? This is my third consecutive season as a season ticket holder and I think my third season as a trust member too. Do I need to have completed my third year, or just have entered into it, to qualify?
companies House suggests that Andy Harman owned around 57% with his brother Tim owning the balance. none of which may in all likelihood be remotely relevant to WWFC.
@DevC said:
companies House suggests that Andy Harman owned around 57% with his brother Tim owning the balance. none of which may in all likelihood be remotely relevant to WWFC.
Christ, imagine getting criticised by DevC for taking a thread somewhat off-course.
Accounts suggest profit pre tax was around £6m annually (far more relevant than turnover) and was reasonably consistent. Exit price of 11 times pre tax profits not excessively generous or cheap.
@OxfordBlue To qualify as a "Legacy Member" you need to be in at least your fourth consecutive season as a season ticket holder, so it will be next season (assuming you purchase a season ticket next season) until you will meet the requirement.
@Uncle_T said: @OxfordBlue To qualify as a "Legacy Member" you need to be in at least your fourth consecutive season as a season ticket holder, so it will be next season (assuming you purchase a season ticket next season) until you will meet the requirement.
Thanks for clarifying Uncle T.
So I’m just in time to probably miss the most important vote in the trust’s history.
Typical, but only myself to blame for not moving over to a season ticket and trust subscription earlier!
Going back a page in the forum now, but just wondering what is likely to be discussed with regards to ifollow? I would be grateful if someone may be able to shed some light on this.
@Chairwyc, iFollow was discussed at the meeting last night. We didn't get direct feedback from the Club Board meeting on Monday, but Trevor Stroud has since confirmed that Matt Cecil spoke on behalf of the Board. The club's view is that this is very much a trial which will provide some data on which to base a further judgement, and they will continue to canvass the views of the Fans Council.
Matt confirmed the split of receipts, 80% going to the club which sells the Match pass, 20% to EFL. Clubs are not allowed to reveal numbers sold (why not if gate figures are public?), he did give a rough figure on what our club has earnt so far this season. I'm not going to get anyone in trouble by repeating that, and working out numbers, but it is substantial. There was poor EFL communication for the first set of games (from what I read clubs only knew a few days before). Charlton do not subscribe to iFollow, nor do they have their own system for broadcasting matches, so any home fans buying would have bought from Wycombe.
I am all for making EFL games more widely available but not at the expense of significantly reducing attendances, which may be more likely for clubs not so far apart in distance. I am equally concerned that home clubs, with all the hosting costs, get no income from away fans watching online, completely contrary to the home clubs keeping all, or nearly all, of league game receipts. If we happened to play Sunderland at home one Tuesday evening, potentially thousands of away fans could buy tickets with no income coming to us. That doesn't seem fair to me. You can buy the match pass from the home club if you feel they should have the income, but get home commentary. If you do, listening to Phil on 3CR instead won't work well because video and sound won't be synchronised.
I am wary of any EFL initiative, because of their recent record, but we will just have to see how this develops. Championship clubs get four cameras at their games, and in-play replays, so £10 is very good value for those, maybe too cheap.
The Club Board is going to investigate the Fans Council request, for the EFL to consider a discounted price for match passes for those iFollow users who hold a subscription/season-pass.
That's an excellent account @Steve_Peart , nice one.
It is an awkward one. Presumably each club gets a pot just for having the ifollow set up anyway.
But generally, small home clubs who might look forward to a bumper away turnout are the ones who will get screwed by this. The question is, are they losing more in that situation, then they are gaining from the "Presumed" pot through being part of ifollow.
Comments
The Curly haired ex Wanderers only goal for the Blues was in a Berks& Bucks tie, that rules out Steve Perrin.
Curly-haired midfielder?
Wouldn’t want to cause harm ‘n’ name him.
I am guessing that @ChasHarps is referring to ex-player Andy Harman, who sold his Annodata business to Kyocera last year. Annodata had a box here for several seasons.
Perhaps he was interested, but he met a crying Trevor Stroud (possibly having been pinched by AH) holding up a red bank statement and decided to let the mysterious 1,000 company man with the jaunty outlook take up the offer of a fun journey?
I see the Fans' Council are discussing Legacy Trust membership tonight. Tin foil hats at the ready.
Reaching...as in looking for an issue and trying desperately to fit the facts to your position.
@StrongestTeam: gotcha - I think! I was reaching for a length of river (possibly the one we worry about being sold down)!
@Wendoverman: was AH the curly-headed midfielder or the outgoing Sporting Director?
@StrongestTeam and @micra, I am totally with you both on this. All the hysterical bemoaning from a few posters on here is pointless and merely deflecting attention from the salient fact that the support base at our club is not sufficient to fully sustain Trust ownership into the future. We have to remember that we are a professional league club and there are many people who earn their livelihood from it. Amateur opinions and messing around could have dire consequences and we have a duty of care to all those who earn their living from the club. Keyboard warriors with either a grudge or just Trolling to try and destabilize our club at a crucial time should make their points correctly at the AGM and at least try to step up to the plate to serve. Younger people who work are not willing to give the time required and/or don't have the expertise required. Some then come on here and are willing to criticize those incumbents for trying to support themselves whilst also trying to run a complex organization such as WWFC. In truth, part of the reason for the seeking of external support is that we must have full time professional management and fully resourced staff that are capable of taking the burden from the voluntary Board members not the other way around which is where we seem to be at present. Rant over and wait for the backlash!?
@micra no idea I've lost track myself...
I just cannot see the advantage for Mr Howard in bullying Mr Stroud or the Board to screw over the club etc etc. If his financial management has been a disaster, that is another thing, but it's not like we did not know we were struggling for money and needed Cup runs and sales to survive. Or was that just me?
And if we've got where we are while they ****ed up the budget over the five year plan...someone must have done something right.
Unless people are suggesting his championing of a certain mystery ownership bidder over another is for corrupt reasons or for a bung...
Indeed @Wendoverman.
Brilliant post from Valley Wanderer, I agree with every word.
I can’t either, in fact I can’t stand the game
Except the facts formed my position. I’m not reaching ST I think it’s been reasonably clear from past evidence that I don’t guess.
Mr Stroud just needs to show when and how it was declared.
But i can say confidently that it wasn’t declared and only came to light when another director let it slip at a meeting .
But even if you claim that is just unfounded scuttlebutt, at last years AGM TS himself spoke of a potential conflict with him being both trust and FC chairman so he did in fact warrant conflict of interest worthy of raising with the membership. So by choosing to talk about some conflict issues but not his own conflict of interest must raise questions surely?
If you don’t see an issue with that then I’m not sure anything a director of our club does or doesn’t do will ever upset you .
Did unfounded scuttlebutt play the Antelope in the mid 90s?
Harman must be worth a considerable amount now. A quick browse online suggests that at the time of sale, Annodata's annual revenue was somewhere in the region of £75-80 million per year.
I don't know what his share of the business was at the time of sale, but you'd expect a business with that turnover to have sold for £400m+?
In last night's Fans Council meeting, an update on the potential investors was provided by Trust Director Lawrie Read. Tony Hector was also present, but not Trevor Stroud who was meeting one of the parties last night.
Lawrie confirmed that there are three parties still very much in the running, so that third party in the background, discussed at the Trust Special meeting, seems to be no longer a 'maybe'. One of the parties, we were told, is very keen to get things moving.
New developments were that the potential investors may be introduced to fans, perhaps at a Fans Council meeting, before meeting Trust Members (I am a little uncomfortable with that idea). Also, the club have calculated that there are 818 season ticket holders who qualify as, but are not yet, Legacy Trust Members. A discussion followed on how best to get these people signed up as members, the Fans Council volunteered members for matchday 'face to face' selling, i.e. talking to people as they arrive at Adams Park and explaining how they can have a big say on the future of the club. Other methods of communication, such as mailshots, emails and even leaflets left on seats of these targeted season ticket holders, will be looked into.
With a current total of 561 Legacy Members, increasing that number significantly will probably increase the chances of getting the required 75% majority on any vote on investors. Any vote not cast would be a vote against the motion, the required 75% threshold is for all registered members, not just those voting on the night or by proxy. It was suggested that these 818 potential members are predominantly younger than the current members. I would suggest that younger members are more likely to vote for a motion, for change, but older members are more cautious due to their longer experience.
@OxfordBlue, I can't find the actual sale price publicly recorded but, on 7 December 2016, this was stated on https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Kyocera-to-buy-British-IT-and-office-equipment-company:
"The Japanese company is expected to buy Annodata through subsidiary Kyocera Document Solutions for around 10 billion yen ($87.7 million)."
That equates to £67 million in today's prices.
That would seem a bit of a bargain for the turnover mentioned above.
Thanks, very interesting. Seems my estimate was wildly over the top...
Also Steve, do you know how I can find out if I qualify as a legacy member? This is my third consecutive season as a season ticket holder and I think my third season as a trust member too. Do I need to have completed my third year, or just have entered into it, to qualify?
companies House suggests that Andy Harman owned around 57% with his brother Tim owning the balance. none of which may in all likelihood be remotely relevant to WWFC.
Season Ticket aside, if you've got £400 million @OxfordBlue you can be king of the Legacy members. Right now!
Christ, imagine getting criticised by DevC for taking a thread somewhat off-course.
No criticism intended or written Oxford.
Accounts suggest profit pre tax was around £6m annually (far more relevant than turnover) and was reasonably consistent. Exit price of 11 times pre tax profits not excessively generous or cheap.
@OxfordBlue To qualify as a "Legacy Member" you need to be in at least your fourth consecutive season as a season ticket holder, so it will be next season (assuming you purchase a season ticket next season) until you will meet the requirement.
Thanks for clarifying Uncle T.
So I’m just in time to probably miss the most important vote in the trust’s history.
Typical, but only myself to blame for not moving over to a season ticket and trust subscription earlier!
Going back a page in the forum now, but just wondering what is likely to be discussed with regards to ifollow? I would be grateful if someone may be able to shed some light on this.
@Chairwyc, iFollow was discussed at the meeting last night. We didn't get direct feedback from the Club Board meeting on Monday, but Trevor Stroud has since confirmed that Matt Cecil spoke on behalf of the Board. The club's view is that this is very much a trial which will provide some data on which to base a further judgement, and they will continue to canvass the views of the Fans Council.
Matt confirmed the split of receipts, 80% going to the club which sells the Match pass, 20% to EFL. Clubs are not allowed to reveal numbers sold (why not if gate figures are public?), he did give a rough figure on what our club has earnt so far this season. I'm not going to get anyone in trouble by repeating that, and working out numbers, but it is substantial. There was poor EFL communication for the first set of games (from what I read clubs only knew a few days before). Charlton do not subscribe to iFollow, nor do they have their own system for broadcasting matches, so any home fans buying would have bought from Wycombe.
I am all for making EFL games more widely available but not at the expense of significantly reducing attendances, which may be more likely for clubs not so far apart in distance. I am equally concerned that home clubs, with all the hosting costs, get no income from away fans watching online, completely contrary to the home clubs keeping all, or nearly all, of league game receipts. If we happened to play Sunderland at home one Tuesday evening, potentially thousands of away fans could buy tickets with no income coming to us. That doesn't seem fair to me. You can buy the match pass from the home club if you feel they should have the income, but get home commentary. If you do, listening to Phil on 3CR instead won't work well because video and sound won't be synchronised.
I am wary of any EFL initiative, because of their recent record, but we will just have to see how this develops. Championship clubs get four cameras at their games, and in-play replays, so £10 is very good value for those, maybe too cheap.
The Club Board is going to investigate the Fans Council request, for the EFL to consider a discounted price for match passes for those iFollow users who hold a subscription/season-pass.
That's an excellent account @Steve_Peart , nice one.
It is an awkward one. Presumably each club gets a pot just for having the ifollow set up anyway.
But generally, small home clubs who might look forward to a bumper away turnout are the ones who will get screwed by this. The question is, are they losing more in that situation, then they are gaining from the "Presumed" pot through being part of ifollow.
@Malone, I don't know what iFollow pot there is for clubs, if any, apart from subscriptions.