It's difficult to follow everything being said and by whom but slides (themselves barely readbale) shown suggest that without outside investment, unless we have a significant cup run (or presumably, though not mentioned) sell a player for a huge amount, we are on course to lose £2million over the next 3 years. The club are unable to get a loan or overdraft from any bank.
Fair point - but most teams that get shafted get their ground pinched off them. I'm not instinctively in favour of selling by the way but clearly not enough people have got involved in share scheme etc. I'm always amazed that some people think paying a tenner a year makes them a massive investor.
Due diligence etc etc. Only one question I need answered from any potential investor ....why? On paper with our catchment we make no sense at all as in investment. So unless there is a sentimental attachment...why?
If I followed correctly there are three potentially interested parties and so far conversations have been for either a minority or majority sale, not the full sale option.
Laying it on nice and thick that cash flow is bad and people have loaned cash cheaply or for free but no indication that anything has really changed or these people no longer will do so
From the sound of it we are currently between a rock and a hard place.
We either carry on hoping that we have a major cup run, or less likely, develop a player worth around a million. We drastically cut the wage budget (which is difficult with a number of players on 2/3 year contracts). The eventual effect of cutting wages is a much weaker squad, probably resulting in relegation and the start of a slippery slope back to non league. As we go down, income will reduce making matters even worse. The possibility of liquidation will also rear it's head.
The other alternative is to take a gamble on selling the club, which could result in the existing club eventually ceasing to exist, due to us ending up again with a loan shark type owner.
The only safeguard we have is owning the ground (although I am not sure how we would cover the cost of maintaining it) enabling us to form a phoenix club in an effort to go through the non league pyramid à la Aldershot.
Whatever we decide is unfortunately a worrying gamble
This all sounds very familiar. Much the same background, financially, as before the last 'potential investor' was sniffing around. My memory was they never showed their hand and although no actual vote occured most people were not so keen to sell out. Somehow, we have managed to get Lg1 status despite this, but surely even Lg2 isn't really sustainable for WWFC as a fan owned club as we don't generate enough revenue?
It's all very well being as we are but why SHOULD certain people (whoever they are, like them or not, think they earn very good interest on their investment or not) keep covering the operating loses when football fortune isn't kind to us.
Most people seem not to want to hear that though. They want to hear we CAN be a fan owned league club.
Unfortunately I don't think that we can generate the revenue to keep this going; eventually "football fortune" will piss on us and we'll have to have a fire sale to survive. Better to have that sale now when we're able to negotiate some of the terms is my view.
@Twizz You’re happy to trust parties that want to remain anonymous? I’m a bit more cynical in life and my detector goes up to 11 on football ownership.
If there are interested parties and they want everything to be super duper and rainbows let’s have a beauty contest and an open discussion. Why not? They won’t have anything to hide. Shared goals and ambitions.
Unfortunately, if we decide to stay supporter owned against the advice of the elected Board, we may end up losing some or all of the current Board members, and much more importantly, our manager.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub if you think I said that then I didn't explain myself well.
I said let's not have a fire sale, let's have a negotiation now. What I do believe is that WWFC isn't a sustainable fan owned league club.
I take it that you don't believe the people who are telling us this now? Or those who did before?
Comments
They're saying that they can't get cash in from members. It sounds brutal but it's true.
@shev that sounds disastrous?
3 potential (unnamed) partners mentioned, who have undergone due diligence tests by the trust board over last 2 years.
Trevor Stroud "All parties understand that ownership of Adams Park is not up for sale". That's at least a small relief.
If the club is going to lose money forever more, why would these people be interested?
@arnos_grove what would stop them moving elsewhere?
It's halftime. Q&A to follow in 15 mins
15 minute break now. General gist is - we need outside investment to realistically survive.
Forgive me @MindlessDrugHoover... Why is it unrealistic to survive? Had that been explained?
It's difficult to follow everything being said and by whom but slides (themselves barely readbale) shown suggest that without outside investment, unless we have a significant cup run (or presumably, though not mentioned) sell a player for a huge amount, we are on course to lose £2million over the next 3 years. The club are unable to get a loan or overdraft from any bank.
Fair point - but most teams that get shafted get their ground pinched off them. I'm not instinctively in favour of selling by the way but clearly not enough people have got involved in share scheme etc. I'm always amazed that some people think paying a tenner a year makes them a massive investor.
Live streaming of the drinks break “Trevor, Trevor!”
Due diligence etc etc. Only one question I need answered from any potential investor ....why? On paper with our catchment we make no sense at all as in investment. So unless there is a sentimental attachment...why?
Agreed @TheAndyGrahamFanClub (I'm in now)
If I followed correctly there are three potentially interested parties and so far conversations have been for either a minority or majority sale, not the full sale option.
Sorry, clearly way behind the curve as I was replying to a much earlier post.
Didn't need any updates to know the gist was going to be -
Currently - unsustainable
Future - need more dough.
While those "fans give money" schemes were incredible by those involved, they couldn't just keep milking that year in year out
Interested to see what happens next
Laying it on nice and thick that cash flow is bad and people have loaned cash cheaply or for free but no indication that anything has really changed or these people no longer will do so
From the sound of it we are currently between a rock and a hard place.
We either carry on hoping that we have a major cup run, or less likely, develop a player worth around a million. We drastically cut the wage budget (which is difficult with a number of players on 2/3 year contracts). The eventual effect of cutting wages is a much weaker squad, probably resulting in relegation and the start of a slippery slope back to non league. As we go down, income will reduce making matters even worse. The possibility of liquidation will also rear it's head.
The other alternative is to take a gamble on selling the club, which could result in the existing club eventually ceasing to exist, due to us ending up again with a loan shark type owner.
The only safeguard we have is owning the ground (although I am not sure how we would cover the cost of maintaining it) enabling us to form a phoenix club in an effort to go through the non league pyramid à la Aldershot.
Whatever we decide is unfortunately a worrying gamble
So playing devils advocate here, and no offence to the player in question
WHO THE FUCK SANCTIONED THE SIGNING OF MCCARTHY????
Agree @mooneyman - neither scenario seems great.
This all sounds very familiar. Much the same background, financially, as before the last 'potential investor' was sniffing around. My memory was they never showed their hand and although no actual vote occured most people were not so keen to sell out. Somehow, we have managed to get Lg1 status despite this, but surely even Lg2 isn't really sustainable for WWFC as a fan owned club as we don't generate enough revenue?
It's all very well being as we are but why SHOULD certain people (whoever they are, like them or not, think they earn very good interest on their investment or not) keep covering the operating loses when football fortune isn't kind to us.
Most people seem not to want to hear that though. They want to hear we CAN be a fan owned league club.
Unfortunately I don't think that we can generate the revenue to keep this going; eventually "football fortune" will piss on us and we'll have to have a fire sale to survive. Better to have that sale now when we're able to negotiate some of the terms is my view.
There's a real danger that shelving cost cutting for wider investment could go pear shaped and us lose far more than the figure invested.
@Twizz You’re happy to trust parties that want to remain anonymous? I’m a bit more cynical in life and my detector goes up to 11 on football ownership.
If there are interested parties and they want everything to be super duper and rainbows let’s have a beauty contest and an open discussion. Why not? They won’t have anything to hide. Shared goals and ambitions.
Unfortunately, if we decide to stay supporter owned against the advice of the elected Board, we may end up losing some or all of the current Board members, and much more importantly, our manager.
@mooneyman it's that kind of pointing a gun at someones head that left us with Hayes in charge
No one person (or board) is bigger than the future of the club
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub if you think I said that then I didn't explain myself well.
I said let's not have a fire sale, let's have a negotiation now. What I do believe is that WWFC isn't a sustainable fan owned league club.
I take it that you don't believe the people who are telling us this now? Or those who did before?
Who is Alan Parkes? He seems to like to criticise everything about the Trust board without any actual constructive ideas.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub - the people telling us this aren't anonymous.
I accept they may not be believed ...
His big idea is that we need to run the club profitably. It really is that easy!