I completely agree that there will be an impact on attendances. Given this now means our away game at Sunderland will be available to watch on iFollow I guarantee some fans will decide it's an easier and cheaper option.
@Malone If you're on Twitter, have a look at Andy Holt (the Accrington owner's account). It seems the club had no idea this was happening, and he's summed up the issues with it better then I can.
Well, Sunderland will very likely have 3 internationals, so it won't be on that weekend, but take your general point.
When Wycombe occasionally got on tv, they'd get a cash payment from the tv company to cover the loss in attendance (main reason). With ifollow, the worry is there doesn't seem to be that payment, and you still end up losing the revenue of people who instead just watch online.
The big Premier league clubs will use this as leverage to get their games on their own channels, which would really be their last untapped potential.
Fans of those clubs would probably love it though, and be delighted to pay say £100 a year to watch every game.
At the moment it's probably way more than that to get Sky and BT Sports, and even then that probably only gives you 25% of a team's games at most.
Sunderland haven't had three call-ups in this international break and are playing this weekend, so our match against them may go ahead on a Saturday too.
How depressing. I watch a bit of footy on the telly, and I understand that away games are expensive and sometimes tricky to attend but surely people would not give up the adams park experience? Nothing is as good as going there to be upset by poor quality beverages, fat deaf officials, opposition fans, managers and people singing 'we know what we are...'
If you’re someone that sometimes goes to AP but sometimes doesn’t bother I just can’t see that you would choose instead to stream it at home for slightly less cost.
Under certain circumstances I agree it would harm away crowds and take a few off the home gate at the margins. The Luton game a few years back is a good example, although even then it was a case of being ‘free’ (to those with a sky sub) whereas now it would be ten quid.
If it is true, as Andy Holt (Accy chairman) suggests, that the EFL has hoodwinked its members and changed the rules to allow live streaming on Saturdays without their conscious consent, it is hard to see how trust can ever be regained. Surely the chief exec must be voted out.
It is difficult to know whether livestreaming on a Saturday increases or decreases revenue for small clubs like ours. That's not really the point.
Although good for those of us living a long way away from the clubs we support, It would be very sad if the football experience changes from being consumed live to be consumed on a screen at home with no atmosphere. If that is what it becomes, why support your local club and not a PL team. the quality is better and both would be consumed on your sofa.
This way clubs are only just revealing that the game is available on Ifollow now, 1hour ago (12ish?) on WWFC official, suggests this has been appallingly communicated to clubs.
Sunderland away would be quite a quandry now, especially with what @Uncle_T says.
I'm sure it's one heck of a ground, a potential one off chance to see us play there as league equals.
But £10 on the laptop versus perhaps £100+ travel, ticket, staying over somewhere?
A friend of mine (who is usually very reliable) recently told me that not all League One clubs participate in the iFollow coverage. 2 of the examples he quoted were Accrington and Sunderland. I've just emailed the club seeking clarification of this. Also, it looks to me that our away fixture at Coventry coincides with an international break - perhaps this game will be available on iFollow?
Accrington Stanley, Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Bristol City, Charlton Athletic, Derby County, Hull City, Forest Green Rovers, Middlesbrough, QPR, Stoke City, Swansea City and Sunderland.
Accrington Stanley, Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Bristol City, Charlton Athletic, Derby County, Hull City, Forest Green Rovers, Middlesbrough, QPR, Stoke City, Swansea City and Sunderland.
@Buzz Charlton can stream it via another streaming service instead of iFollow.
From the EFL iFollow site: "Please note that the iFollow service is only available to clubs playing in the EFL during the 2018/19 season who have opted in to utilise the iFollow platform. Those clubs who have not will have access to the same live streaming opportunity and will be able to provide their fans with access through their own club digital services."
Match is filmed on the camera used for the Sky highlights. Part of the TV deal. |those apply to all clubs. Clubs can choose whether to use IFollow and use their websites to sell the coverage on to their supporters. Charlton choose not to.
Charlton supporters cant watch the game via Ifollow. There is nothing to stop them registering as a WWFC supporter and watching "our" coverage.
So a club don't actually have to subscribe to ifollow for one of their home games to be available?
But it can be shown as long as one of the two clubs in a fixture does subscribe? (Like tomorrow appears to be?)
So for example, Charlton v Sunderland couldn't be available? But obviously us at non subscribing Charlton is?
So Charlton away is available to WW fans on iFollow, despite Charlton not being part of the scheme. Will this also apply to Accrington and Sunderland, I wonder. If the club give a helpful response to my email I'll come back on here.
The previous company before iFollow allowed users to login to any club once subscribed. I quite liked this as I'd sometimes listen to the away commentary to get a different perspective on the game.
Agree with @DevC insofar as this amounts to a deception. I don’t think it will have a big impact on crowds but the poor communication/lies about availability of this service in the UK is troubling.
The way the news has just dropped a day before is quite strange.
For one thing, surely the ifollow bods would want as much notice as possible so people know they can do it!
I do believe that those clubs who have said today that they were unaware that these matches would be available live in the UK are telling the truth.
The EFL website states, "Please note, for UK users, matches within the blocked hours of 14.45-17.15 on Saturday afternoons will be blacked out and not available on iFollow. Fixtures taking place on Bank Holidays or Easter will also be unavailable," and makes no reference to this restriction being relaxed for international weekends. All the publicity I had seen before today has stated that Saturday matches will not be available to watch as a live stream in the UK, with no mention of international breaks.
Either the EFL signed up to this but failed to explain the situation clearly to their member clubs or, quite possibly, the EFL signed the TV rights contract without reading or fully understanding the small print and have been caught out themselves. Whatever the reason, it doesn't reflect well on the EFL.
Looks like the EFL haven't quite caught up with this themselves yet. There is a feature on their website that you can use to look up which of your team's matches are not available for live broadcast. The next international breaks are 8-16 October, 12-20 November and 18-26 March.
Our match at Coventry on 13th October is not on the list (indicating it will be available to view) but our matches on the following two breaks - Sunderland away; Charlton home - are both listed as being "unavailable to watch live on iFollow."
I can't be certain, as I've never looked at that webpage before, but I suspect that tomorrow's match at Charlton and our Coventry away game may have been appearing in the list as "unavailable to watch live on iFollow" until very recently too and that somebody is hastily going through updating the lists after realising that this loophole exists.
The reason streaming of the matches tomorrow cannot be restricted is because the UEFA Regulations only consider the "top or top two domestic leagues" or "national cup(s)" to qualify as the domestic football season and state that "No prohibition can apply during interruptions to the fixture schedule, such as ‘winter-breaks’."
The international break is considered an interruption to our domestic season, since the top two leagues are not active.
I wonder if anyone at all had realised this was possible when they made the deal. As someone who doesn't live locally I think I would watch 10 or so of these a season which is extra revenue for the club although how much of this they get I don't know. I only get to about 10 games a season and I don't think this would be an alternative, it would just allow me to see some more games where I don't have time (or the wife doesn't allow me to) to travel. I couldn't rule out it being a factor that stopped me going to perhaps one game a season but it won't hit that same spot in terms of experience as being there.
Like someone else said, the sort of fan who goes to the likes of Plymouth, and Accy away on a midweek night will still go.
It's those floating fans who if they have the chance to just watch a home midweeker online, instead of going will take it.
Impossible to say if the "gain" from doing this, via any TV money pot we get, justifies the "loss" from them not going.
I'm half considering the Tuesday Checkatrade cup games on Ifollow.
The gate will be terrible, and the atmosphere zero, so the "it's better to be at the game" argument isn't as strong as the usual games
Comments
I completely agree that there will be an impact on attendances. Given this now means our away game at Sunderland will be available to watch on iFollow I guarantee some fans will decide it's an easier and cheaper option.
@Malone If you're on Twitter, have a look at Andy Holt (the Accrington owner's account). It seems the club had no idea this was happening, and he's summed up the issues with it better then I can.
Well, Sunderland will very likely have 3 internationals, so it won't be on that weekend, but take your general point.
When Wycombe occasionally got on tv, they'd get a cash payment from the tv company to cover the loss in attendance (main reason). With ifollow, the worry is there doesn't seem to be that payment, and you still end up losing the revenue of people who instead just watch online.
The big Premier league clubs will use this as leverage to get their games on their own channels, which would really be their last untapped potential.
Fans of those clubs would probably love it though, and be delighted to pay say £100 a year to watch every game.
At the moment it's probably way more than that to get Sky and BT Sports, and even then that probably only gives you 25% of a team's games at most.
Sunderland haven't had three call-ups in this international break and are playing this weekend, so our match against them may go ahead on a Saturday too.
There's no doubt streaming Saturday games would impact attendances.
People who go to Plymouth on a Tuesday night are going to probably go regardless of whether they can stream it.
But a lot of people may opt to watch at home rather than trek down to Adams Park on a Saturday, esp. if they don't live too close to the town.
How depressing. I watch a bit of footy on the telly, and I understand that away games are expensive and sometimes tricky to attend but surely people would not give up the adams park experience? Nothing is as good as going there to be upset by poor quality beverages, fat deaf officials, opposition fans, managers and people singing 'we know what we are...'
Never. Well, at my age I probably shouldn’t say that. Never say never.
If you’re someone that sometimes goes to AP but sometimes doesn’t bother I just can’t see that you would choose instead to stream it at home for slightly less cost.
Under certain circumstances I agree it would harm away crowds and take a few off the home gate at the margins. The Luton game a few years back is a good example, although even then it was a case of being ‘free’ (to those with a sky sub) whereas now it would be ten quid.
Well this is extraordinary.
If it is true, as Andy Holt (Accy chairman) suggests, that the EFL has hoodwinked its members and changed the rules to allow live streaming on Saturdays without their conscious consent, it is hard to see how trust can ever be regained. Surely the chief exec must be voted out.
It is difficult to know whether livestreaming on a Saturday increases or decreases revenue for small clubs like ours. That's not really the point.
Although good for those of us living a long way away from the clubs we support, It would be very sad if the football experience changes from being consumed live to be consumed on a screen at home with no atmosphere. If that is what it becomes, why support your local club and not a PL team. the quality is better and both would be consumed on your sofa.
Oh dear.
This way clubs are only just revealing that the game is available on Ifollow now, 1hour ago (12ish?) on WWFC official, suggests this has been appallingly communicated to clubs.
Sunderland away would be quite a quandry now, especially with what @Uncle_T says.
I'm sure it's one heck of a ground, a potential one off chance to see us play there as league equals.
But £10 on the laptop versus perhaps £100+ travel, ticket, staying over somewhere?
Will see how this pans out.
A friend of mine (who is usually very reliable) recently told me that not all League One clubs participate in the iFollow coverage. 2 of the examples he quoted were Accrington and Sunderland. I've just emailed the club seeking clarification of this. Also, it looks to me that our away fixture at Coventry coincides with an international break - perhaps this game will be available on iFollow?
Clubs not covered
Accrington Stanley, Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Bristol City, Charlton Athletic, Derby County, Hull City, Forest Green Rovers, Middlesbrough, QPR, Stoke City, Swansea City and Sunderland.
Thanks Mr C
Hold on a minute - that list includes Charlton?!
Yes, they do not subscribe to Ifollow (apparently).
But WWFC have stated this morning that tomorrow's match is available to watch.
@Buzz Charlton can stream it via another streaming service instead of iFollow.
From the EFL iFollow site: "Please note that the iFollow service is only available to clubs playing in the EFL during the 2018/19 season who have opted in to utilise the iFollow platform. Those clubs who have not will have access to the same live streaming opportunity and will be able to provide their fans with access through their own club digital services."
Yes, it will be.
Match is filmed on the camera used for the Sky highlights. Part of the TV deal. |those apply to all clubs. Clubs can choose whether to use IFollow and use their websites to sell the coverage on to their supporters. Charlton choose not to.
Charlton supporters cant watch the game via Ifollow. There is nothing to stop them registering as a WWFC supporter and watching "our" coverage.
So a club don't actually have to subscribe to ifollow for one of their home games to be available?
But it can be shown as long as one of the two clubs in a fixture does subscribe? (Like tomorrow appears to be?)
So for example, Charlton v Sunderland couldn't be available? But obviously us at non subscribing Charlton is?
Basically as I understand it.
Not sure if you as a customer signed up through Wycombe could purchase a Charlton v Sunderland "ticket".
So Charlton away is available to WW fans on iFollow, despite Charlton not being part of the scheme. Will this also apply to Accrington and Sunderland, I wonder. If the club give a helpful response to my email I'll come back on here.
The previous company before iFollow allowed users to login to any club once subscribed. I quite liked this as I'd sometimes listen to the away commentary to get a different perspective on the game.
Ifollow doesn't allow this.
it appears it will if those games are played on international weekends or Tuesdays Buzz.
Funny old world.
Agree with @DevC insofar as this amounts to a deception. I don’t think it will have a big impact on crowds but the poor communication/lies about availability of this service in the UK is troubling.
The way the news has just dropped a day before is quite strange.
For one thing, surely the ifollow bods would want as much notice as possible so people know they can do it!
I do believe that those clubs who have said today that they were unaware that these matches would be available live in the UK are telling the truth.
The EFL website states, "Please note, for UK users, matches within the blocked hours of 14.45-17.15 on Saturday afternoons will be blacked out and not available on iFollow. Fixtures taking place on Bank Holidays or Easter will also be unavailable," and makes no reference to this restriction being relaxed for international weekends. All the publicity I had seen before today has stated that Saturday matches will not be available to watch as a live stream in the UK, with no mention of international breaks.
Either the EFL signed up to this but failed to explain the situation clearly to their member clubs or, quite possibly, the EFL signed the TV rights contract without reading or fully understanding the small print and have been caught out themselves. Whatever the reason, it doesn't reflect well on the EFL.
Looks like the EFL haven't quite caught up with this themselves yet. There is a feature on their website that you can use to look up which of your team's matches are not available for live broadcast. The next international breaks are 8-16 October, 12-20 November and 18-26 March.
Our match at Coventry on 13th October is not on the list (indicating it will be available to view) but our matches on the following two breaks - Sunderland away; Charlton home - are both listed as being "unavailable to watch live on iFollow."
I can't be certain, as I've never looked at that webpage before, but I suspect that tomorrow's match at Charlton and our Coventry away game may have been appearing in the list as "unavailable to watch live on iFollow" until very recently too and that somebody is hastily going through updating the lists after realising that this loophole exists.
The reason streaming of the matches tomorrow cannot be restricted is because the UEFA Regulations only consider the "top or top two domestic leagues" or "national cup(s)" to qualify as the domestic football season and state that "No prohibition can apply during interruptions to the fixture schedule, such as ‘winter-breaks’."
The international break is considered an interruption to our domestic season, since the top two leagues are not active.
For anyone who is interested, the relevant UEFA Regulation can be viewed here: https://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/88494.pdf
I wonder if anyone at all had realised this was possible when they made the deal. As someone who doesn't live locally I think I would watch 10 or so of these a season which is extra revenue for the club although how much of this they get I don't know. I only get to about 10 games a season and I don't think this would be an alternative, it would just allow me to see some more games where I don't have time (or the wife doesn't allow me to) to travel. I couldn't rule out it being a factor that stopped me going to perhaps one game a season but it won't hit that same spot in terms of experience as being there.
Like someone else said, the sort of fan who goes to the likes of Plymouth, and Accy away on a midweek night will still go.
It's those floating fans who if they have the chance to just watch a home midweeker online, instead of going will take it.
Impossible to say if the "gain" from doing this, via any TV money pot we get, justifies the "loss" from them not going.
I'm half considering the Tuesday Checkatrade cup games on Ifollow.
The gate will be terrible, and the atmosphere zero, so the "it's better to be at the game" argument isn't as strong as the usual games