@DevC If you really believe that there are less than 24 "thickos" in Wycombe that when tanked up could not organise a pitch invasion at another ground, then you must be extremely naive or else stupid. It is actually your idea that is bonkers!
Even if Richie couldn't organise such an operation, I am sure you could get my scenario occur on other grounds where there is fierce rivalry e.g West Ham/Chelsea Arsenal/Spurs if you had the chance of getting the "enemy" deducted 10 points.
If they're thick, or don't really care that much about football they won't care about or possibly even understand banning orders. That's the point...the league can say we'll ban them, fine the club's whose fans do it, fine the club's who fall to stop it happening, and you know what. It will still happen. It's like warning people not to boo the opposition or call Gareth a gypsy **** you can warn them but chances are it's still going to happen.
If you had 1000 stewards holding hands and encircling the pitch, you might prevent an invasion (defined as “an incursion by a large number of people”) but a significant number would doubtless breach the cordon at various points and others would inevitably follow. Stupid hypothesis, I know, and it might be just a little difficult to rustle up 1000 stewards!
You’ll never stop it.
I was around Micra when black players were subjected to monkey noises and bananas being thrown. I suspect you were to. I remember being told then "you'll never stop it". We did though (largely)
I remember when it was fairly normal for fights to break out inside and outside football grounds. "You'll never stop it". We did though (largely)
I remember watching football from behind eight foot fences. You'll never stop it. We did though - but it took a tragedy to learn that lesson. Lets hope we learn this one without anyone getting seriously hurt.
@DevC said:
first of all, lets nail the lie that you have to have a pitch invasion to express your passion and joy. Bollocks. Possibly the most emotional moment I have experienced at a football match came at Torquay. There was no pitch invasion (due to some fine stewarding), the post match celebrations were far better as a result.
Most pitch invasions are good natured, but sadly there is always the potential for a few numpties to spoil it for the goodnatured majority. Immediately running to confront the away supporters is one thing - stewards will almost certainly keep them apart, but opposition players and officials can very quickly get caught up in the chaos.
A young lad assaulting a 78 year old man could have very quickly developed into something much worse. A young lad carrying a knife and coming into contact with a controversial opposition player much worse.
God forbid if someone gets seriously injured (or worse) and the call for reintroduction of fences will be hard to resist.
New rule from next season, if there is a pitch invasion of more than 20 people, automatic 10 point penalty unless club can prove strong mitigating circumstances. if it happens in a play off, you are disqualified.
interesting and slightly amusing that the archetypal liberal who would have villains roaming our streets and claims that we jail too many people has now gone all hard line on pitch invaders.
There is little wrong with running onto the pitch when a team have been promoted (e.g Chesterfield) the stewards were great at chesterfield and I had a good chat with one who said it was fine.
Appreciably goading players should not happen, but i have some great photo's of being on the pitch @ Chesterfield and at home vs Stevenage with my little lad in front of the valley. Let people live a little and enjoy a moment, if you want to stay in stand enjoy but don't chastise those who want a special moment, after all, no one's getting out of here alive.
Perhaps future celebrations could be organized with fans forming an orderly queue to take turns running around the pitch individually, before shaking the players' hands and doffing their cap to the manager?
The fences may have to be re-introduced, I suppose, but I sincerely hope not. That would fly in the face of all the good things that have come to pass in recent times, not least the closeness, literally and figuratively, of fans and players.
Sorry glasshalffull. Not sure where DevC ‘ s words end and yours begin. (Might be a malfunction of my little iPhone of course.)
Sorry Micra there’s supposed to be a gap. ‘Interesting’ is my first word and I was alluding to a recent thread about crime and punishment that you might not have seen.
@Aimlesslywandering said:
There is little wrong with running onto the pitch when a team have been promoted (e.g Chesterfield) the stewards were great at chesterfield and I had a good chat with one who said it was fine.
Appreciably goading players should not happen, but i have some great photo's of being on the pitch @ Chesterfield and at home vs Stevenage with my little lad in front of the valley. Let people live a little and enjoy a moment, if you want to stay in stand enjoy but don't chastise those who want a special moment, after all, no one's getting out of here alive.
Brilliant post.
I'm pretty sure Ainsworth enjoyed being held aloft amongst all the fans holding a Wycombe scarf/flag up in the air.
I'm pretty sure the players as they sprinted over to the fans at full-time at Chesterfield expected/enjoyed embracing joyous supporters. None of them told me to "Get off the f****** pitch" but just celebrated with me and the many others on there.
Pitch invasions have become part and parcel of promotion (and survival) celebrations, and probably more recently reaching Wembley in play-offs (we did 3 years ago and all 5 teams (home 2nd leg) have so far this season).
There could be a minority who ruin it, as it seems may've happened at Exeter last night (these are still just accusations), but on the whole they're well-natured with supporters relishing in the opportunity to celebrate the achievements with their players.
Pitch invasions are good fun. Much like all good and fun things in life, some idiots will take it too far. I suppose we could legislate against it by banning anything fun but I'm not in favour of it.
It's a beautiful evening. The bottle of wine is tasting good. Let's chill a little and take this one step at a time.
Opportunities for celebration for small football clubs don't come along often. In recent years wwfc has had more than it's fair share with Torquay, chesterfield and Plymouth.
Torquay is relevant to this discussion because the celebrations there were held on the terraces not the pitch. as a result the players were in full view of all 1000 supporters as players and supporters celebrated together.
Genuine question no 1 for those who were there. Do you think the post match celebrations would have been more or less fun if say 200 supporters had run onto the pitch at final whistle or about the same. If more or less, would you much or a bit?
A good provocative debate and perfect closed season reading on the train home.
Nice one @DevC. I know some on here dislike threads like these but I always find it useful to challenge and question my views on subjects like this and these discussions help so keep it up.
So...
Going back to the risk assessment approach, what are the risks from a pitch invasion?
Harm to players, staff and stewards (and fellow fans) is one but in a ‘joyous’ pitch invasion this is likely to be more as a result of excess high spirits than a more malicious intent. The knife argument doesn’t really work in this context. If there is a risk or threat of a player being injured by a knife attack better to introduce other control measures to stop, for example, knives getting into the ground.
Fences could prevent someone getting onto the pitch but as we know from history this brings new risks and behaviours.
The other, more realistic in my opinion, risk is the pitch invasion with malicious intent - usually to get to opposing fans (which is why I think we ended up with fences originally).
This is where intelligence and stewarding is much more important and is a risk that is generally well-managed in recent years.
But, given that there is a risk, is the ‘threat’ worthwhile? My answer would be yes. I celebrated Chesterfield from behind the goal (too old for all that jumping over fences) but I do think those on the pitch probably got a slightly better experience and memory than I did.
More importantly so too I believe did the players and management team. There aren’t many opportunities for the team and fans to come together like that.
I remember talking to one of our players a year or two after the Sutton trophy semi-final victory and he said he still got goose bumps thinking about the crowd in front of the stand at the end.
It’s still too early to know what happened at Exeter, but if it is the case that an assault occurred then this should be dealt with as any other assault would be.
I’m sure the vast majority of those on the pitch did get a slightly better experience and memory than those who kept off the grass. I spotted @TheChair cuddling someone in one of the photos. He’s only a youngster, a little short of 70 I believe, but 12 year old Jamie (hope I’ve got his name right) broke a leg and had to have surgery. He was apparently still “buzzing” despite the pain and I hope he is well on the road to recovery.
Dev, the pitch invasion at Chesterfield was incredible. I'll never ever forget it in my entire life. I hugged at least 5 players, got an accidental nosebleed from Scott Brown, and gave Ainsworth the flag he was holding when getting carried by the fans.
We all left the pitch after about 20 mins, and the players got a brilliant reception from everyone in the stands when they came back out. It was extremely good-natured, well-stewarded and well-policed. No issues at all apart from the poor lad who broke his leg. I just can't work out your thinking. Its being a complete kill-joy for no reason.
Once again I find myself slightly siding with Dev. I wasn't at Chesterfield but I was at Stevenage where the pitch invasion (which, for the record, I took part in) was a bit of a damp squib. It all seemed very half-hearted without the players or any real sense of exhilaration having been promoted a week before. All it did was delay the very long, convoluted medal-awarding ceremony to such an extent that by the time the players did their lap of honour the ground was only a third full. It was all a little anti-climatic. If we had all stayed in place and got on with the ceremony half an hour earlier I think everyone would have had a far better time in the lap of honour.
Comments
@DevC If you really believe that there are less than 24 "thickos" in Wycombe that when tanked up could not organise a pitch invasion at another ground, then you must be extremely naive or else stupid. It is actually your idea that is bonkers!
Even if Richie couldn't organise such an operation, I am sure you could get my scenario occur on other grounds where there is fierce rivalry e.g West Ham/Chelsea Arsenal/Spurs if you had the chance of getting the "enemy" deducted 10 points.
POTD
If they're thick, or don't really care that much about football they won't care about or possibly even understand banning orders. That's the point...the league can say we'll ban them, fine the club's whose fans do it, fine the club's who fall to stop it happening, and you know what. It will still happen. It's like warning people not to boo the opposition or call Gareth a gypsy **** you can warn them but chances are it's still going to happen.
If you had 1000 stewards holding hands and encircling the pitch, you might prevent an invasion (defined as “an incursion by a large number of people”) but a significant number would doubtless breach the cordon at various points and others would inevitably follow. Stupid hypothesis, I know, and it might be just a little difficult to rustle up 1000 stewards!
You’ll never stop it.
I always thought it was against FL rules for spectators to enter the field of play.
I was around Micra when black players were subjected to monkey noises and bananas being thrown. I suspect you were to. I remember being told then "you'll never stop it". We did though (largely)
I remember when it was fairly normal for fights to break out inside and outside football grounds. "You'll never stop it". We did though (largely)
I remember watching football from behind eight foot fences. You'll never stop it. We did though - but it took a tragedy to learn that lesson. Lets hope we learn this one without anyone getting seriously hurt.
(just to be clear, I was around, not necessarily around Micra!)
Sorry @glasshalffull. Not sure where @DevC ‘ s words end and yours begin. (Might be a malfunction of my little iPhone of course.)
There is little wrong with running onto the pitch when a team have been promoted (e.g Chesterfield) the stewards were great at chesterfield and I had a good chat with one who said it was fine.
Appreciably goading players should not happen, but i have some great photo's of being on the pitch @ Chesterfield and at home vs Stevenage with my little lad in front of the valley. Let people live a little and enjoy a moment, if you want to stay in stand enjoy but don't chastise those who want a special moment, after all, no one's getting out of here alive.
Perhaps future celebrations could be organized with fans forming an orderly queue to take turns running around the pitch individually, before shaking the players' hands and doffing their cap to the manager?
The fences may have to be re-introduced, I suppose, but I sincerely hope not. That would fly in the face of all the good things that have come to pass in recent times, not least the closeness, literally and figuratively, of fans and players.
S> @micra said:
Sorry Micra there’s supposed to be a gap. ‘Interesting’ is my first word and I was alluding to a recent thread about crime and punishment that you might not have seen.
Main problem was that both the original comment and your response were within the “shaded”area. Not even sure how you do that!
Brilliant post.
I'm pretty sure Ainsworth enjoyed being held aloft amongst all the fans holding a Wycombe scarf/flag up in the air.
I'm pretty sure the players as they sprinted over to the fans at full-time at Chesterfield expected/enjoyed embracing joyous supporters. None of them told me to "Get off the f****** pitch" but just celebrated with me and the many others on there.
Pitch invasions have become part and parcel of promotion (and survival) celebrations, and probably more recently reaching Wembley in play-offs (we did 3 years ago and all 5 teams (home 2nd leg) have so far this season).
There could be a minority who ruin it, as it seems may've happened at Exeter last night (these are still just accusations), but on the whole they're well-natured with supporters relishing in the opportunity to celebrate the achievements with their players.
Never knowingly been encircled by @DevC.
In respect of mr Glasshalffull's post, I refer the learned gentleman to the first paragraph of my post at 3:02...........
Nor do I!
When are you going to learn how to refer to people by their username @DevC ?
I will take no response as no explanation for the change of tune. And you don’t need to respond.
Pitch invasions are good fun. Much like all good and fun things in life, some idiots will take it too far. I suppose we could legislate against it by banning anything fun but I'm not in favour of it.
Spoilsport.
Fun is over-rated and almost always ends up in 78 year olds being biffed and knives being drawn. I read that somewhere.
It's a beautiful evening. The bottle of wine is tasting good. Let's chill a little and take this one step at a time.
Opportunities for celebration for small football clubs don't come along often. In recent years wwfc has had more than it's fair share with Torquay, chesterfield and Plymouth.
Torquay is relevant to this discussion because the celebrations there were held on the terraces not the pitch. as a result the players were in full view of all 1000 supporters as players and supporters celebrated together.
Genuine question no 1 for those who were there. Do you think the post match celebrations would have been more or less fun if say 200 supporters had run onto the pitch at final whistle or about the same. If more or less, would you much or a bit?
My view for what it's worth is it would have been a bit less fun.
@glasshalffull, welcome to the world of Dev!
The only consistency in approach is taking the view he knows will be the opposite to what most think, and running with it, for max trolling
A good provocative debate and perfect closed season reading on the train home.
Nice one @DevC. I know some on here dislike threads like these but I always find it useful to challenge and question my views on subjects like this and these discussions help so keep it up.
So...
Going back to the risk assessment approach, what are the risks from a pitch invasion?
Harm to players, staff and stewards (and fellow fans) is one but in a ‘joyous’ pitch invasion this is likely to be more as a result of excess high spirits than a more malicious intent. The knife argument doesn’t really work in this context. If there is a risk or threat of a player being injured by a knife attack better to introduce other control measures to stop, for example, knives getting into the ground.
Fences could prevent someone getting onto the pitch but as we know from history this brings new risks and behaviours.
The other, more realistic in my opinion, risk is the pitch invasion with malicious intent - usually to get to opposing fans (which is why I think we ended up with fences originally).
This is where intelligence and stewarding is much more important and is a risk that is generally well-managed in recent years.
But, given that there is a risk, is the ‘threat’ worthwhile? My answer would be yes. I celebrated Chesterfield from behind the goal (too old for all that jumping over fences) but I do think those on the pitch probably got a slightly better experience and memory than I did.
More importantly so too I believe did the players and management team. There aren’t many opportunities for the team and fans to come together like that.
I remember talking to one of our players a year or two after the Sutton trophy semi-final victory and he said he still got goose bumps thinking about the crowd in front of the stand at the end.
It’s still too early to know what happened at Exeter, but if it is the case that an assault occurred then this should be dealt with as any other assault would be.
I’m sure the vast majority of those on the pitch did get a slightly better experience and memory than those who kept off the grass. I spotted @TheChair cuddling someone in one of the photos. He’s only a youngster, a little short of 70 I believe, but 12 year old Jamie (hope I’ve got his name right) broke a leg and had to have surgery. He was apparently still “buzzing” despite the pain and I hope he is well on the road to recovery.
Dev, the pitch invasion at Chesterfield was incredible. I'll never ever forget it in my entire life. I hugged at least 5 players, got an accidental nosebleed from Scott Brown, and gave Ainsworth the flag he was holding when getting carried by the fans.
We all left the pitch after about 20 mins, and the players got a brilliant reception from everyone in the stands when they came back out. It was extremely good-natured, well-stewarded and well-policed. No issues at all apart from the poor lad who broke his leg. I just can't work out your thinking. Its being a complete kill-joy for no reason.
Once again I find myself slightly siding with Dev. I wasn't at Chesterfield but I was at Stevenage where the pitch invasion (which, for the record, I took part in) was a bit of a damp squib. It all seemed very half-hearted without the players or any real sense of exhilaration having been promoted a week before. All it did was delay the very long, convoluted medal-awarding ceremony to such an extent that by the time the players did their lap of honour the ground was only a third full. It was all a little anti-climatic. If we had all stayed in place and got on with the ceremony half an hour earlier I think everyone would have had a far better time in the lap of honour.