Yup, still doesn't solve the arguments and breaks the game up. Much prefer one of our strikers to grab the ball and run back to quickly take the centre rather than everyone moaning at the ref and him changing his mind 10 mins later.
It's the inconsistency of its use that makes a mockery of the game. Every football match should be played to the same rules. Fair enough you won't get VAR in non league, but it's not even equally applied at higher levels. So different games in the same competition can be played to different rules. Ridiculous.
I thought the idea was the ref called on VAR if he was unsure about a decision...whereas it looks like someone shouts down his ear-hole and undermines his running of the game.
so why not just get rid of him waddling about in the middle at all and the players can just appeal to a VAR operator to settle their disputes...those 'assistants' could just be cameras on runners up and down the line. Bound to improve the excitement factor for those who go to see football live.
For now let the waddler make the decisions that don't matter too much. but for the really big decisions use technology to make sure they are made with the best info possible.
Can't stand Man City, but last night shows how it's just a passion killing machine.
City believe they've got a last min winner, check with the lino - no flag, and it's pure scenes (or would be if most of the fans hadn't been let in with free tickets, and normally support Stockport).
Then there's a min or so, then the ref does that irritating little tv sign with his hands, and then there's a couple more mins, all passion gone, silence, and then no goal, and it's just farcical really.
I'm with Danny Baker - I love the feeling that there's some outrage, you might have gotten away with something etc.
At least we'll still have it, unless we draw a Premier team away in the cup.
@Wendoverman said:
so why not just get rid of him waddling about in the middle at all and the players can just appeal to a VAR operator to settle their disputes...those 'assistants' could just be cameras on runners up and down the line. Bound to improve the excitement factor for those who go to see football live.
Yep, why not.
No officials, and just massive booming voices, and screens like 1984.
The players don't have any opportunity to dissent, as there's noone there.
Any delaying free kicks, an instant booking. That would almost instantly reduce that tactic - one of Pep's finest, along with rotational fouls.
Outrage and injustice proves we are still alive. I'm glad we are still dependent on unfit part-time little Hitlers (I'm not doing the salute!) making terrible mistakes for and against us myself. I seem to recall Michael Oliver (lauded on TV the other day for being a fine official) in his early days giving us a goal that had actually rolled out of play to the side of the upright.
Still the same though. I prefer getting important decisions right rather than allowing them to be wrong. technology moves on. We have moved ahead of waving flags
Yes, but as your never in a stadium or have any particular allegiance to a team @DevC
You will rarely have felt the euphoric emotion of a last minute winner.
Yeah, imagine you've absolutely ruined your trousers in euphoria, and then suddenly notice the ref is fiddling around on his earpiece and trotting down to casually a watch a bit of tv for a few mins.
Many, many times that we've cheered a goal then spotted the flag! VAR sometimes just takes things over a slightly longer time frame really. Wasn't really a fan initially but I'm slowly growing into it.
VAR is dreadful, and last night's fiasco confirmed it
Linesmen now do not flag for marginal decisions. They wait for the passage of play to take its course knowing they can check it afterwards. They are actually instructed to do this.
Without VAR the linesman would have flagged for that offside. With it, he let the play continue because he didn't want to flag and be proven wrong.
That's before we get on to the sheer cruelty of letting a team's fans experience the exhilaration of a last minute winner only to have it snatched away minutes later.
VAR is the worst thing to happen to football in my lifetime. I hate it.
I can see both sides of this argument. On the one hand, the introduction of VAR has compromised the spontaneity of moments like City’s last minute ‘goal’ and the celebrations that followed it, but on the other hand it has righted possible wrongs. What I don’t understand is that it was only supposed to be used for ‘clear and obvious errors’ and that phrase certainly didn’t apply to Llorente’s goal and arguably didn’t for the offside decision either. On balance, I’m a fan of goal line technology because that’s black or white but I’m unsure about VAR.
Can't stand VAR myself. It's farcical in my view that it's being used for marginal 50/50 decisions. I can understand when it's used to reverse a clear wrong decision, but these are not as frequent as we imagine them to be. Mostly it seems to be used for things like the Man Utd penalty V PSG. It causes as much controversy as it alleviates.
@Malone said:
Yeah, imagine you've absolutely ruined your trousers in euphoria, and then suddenly notice the ref is fiddling around on his earpiece and trotting down to casually a watch a bit of tv for a few mins.
Then it's off.
Dreadful.
If you drink in Monty's pre match, you don't need euphoria to ruin your trolleys.With each draught pint, they should issue beer nappys in preference to beer mats.
@glasshalffull , yes, goalline tech is unarguable - as it's instant. I'm not sure how much it costs, but I can't believe it costs that much to stop other divisions below the Premier league having it.
The obvious mistakes thing is again, more acceptable, but now it's panned out as being a bunch of faceless individuals watch every goal back, watch every pen and situation back, and are chipping away in the ref's ear.
Yet strangely, the ref still gets the final say, which is what delays it all, as he has to trot to a tv, watch for a min or 2, and then trot back.
@Wycombe85 said:
Can't stand VAR myself. It's farcical in my view that it's being used for marginal 50/50 decisions. I can understand when it's used to reverse a clear wrong decision, but these are not as frequent as we imagine them to be. Mostly it seems to be used for things like the Man Utd penalty V PSG. It causes as much controversy as it alleviates.
Also, does it only review pens that are awarded, not ones that aren't?
I remember McTominay was possibly tripped in the Barcelona home game, but they didn't even review it, yet the pen given against was reviewed.
It seems a right old carry on, but at least in league 1 we don't have to worry about such things.
The main time I'd have been in favour for us, was when that QPR idiot ref sent McSporran and Senda off for the same crime!
Watching that back on video now gets me so angry, and I wasn't even there.
@Malone, remember the Spurs v City first leg there was a VAR penalty given for a kick that wasn't awarded or even called for by the City players. That being said I imagine Sky and BT were initially left wondering what the hell they were going to talk about post game with VAR coming but it turns out it is still just as divisive
I just wonder if the tiny handful of decisions you'd really wished were spotted, like Maradona's handball, that Lampard goal a mile over the line are worth the 100s of hours of lost debate about being robbed, or getting away with one.
Once the initial controversy of this being new has settled down.
If it has to be used, then why can't it follow cricket's system. Each manager should be allowed to demand VAR twice only during a match. If a referee decision is proved wrong, the respective manager doesn't lose the review.
@mooneyman yes I'd wondered myself whether VAR could go down the cricket route. Possibly it would be an improvement on the current set up, but of course every late goal would be subject to an appeal in the desperate hope of finding some reason to disallow it. Fines for frivolous appeals perhaps? Not sure that would make much difference with the top end of the game so awash with money.
@Malone I remember the McSporran sending off well. He was stood on the half way line whilst the melee took place in the penalty box. The single worst decision I've ever seen! The equivalent of a goalkeeper being sent of for a 2 footed tackle by a midfielder in the centre circle!
Comments
Yup, still doesn't solve the arguments and breaks the game up. Much prefer one of our strikers to grab the ball and run back to quickly take the centre rather than everyone moaning at the ref and him changing his mind 10 mins later.
It's the inconsistency of its use that makes a mockery of the game. Every football match should be played to the same rules. Fair enough you won't get VAR in non league, but it's not even equally applied at higher levels. So different games in the same competition can be played to different rules. Ridiculous.
I thought the idea was the ref called on VAR if he was unsure about a decision...whereas it looks like someone shouts down his ear-hole and undermines his running of the game.
And helps him to make the right decisions............
so why not just get rid of him waddling about in the middle at all and the players can just appeal to a VAR operator to settle their disputes...those 'assistants' could just be cameras on runners up and down the line. Bound to improve the excitement factor for those who go to see football live.
may be where it ends up one day.
For now let the waddler make the decisions that don't matter too much. but for the really big decisions use technology to make sure they are made with the best info possible.
Can't stand Man City, but last night shows how it's just a passion killing machine.
City believe they've got a last min winner, check with the lino - no flag, and it's pure scenes (or would be if most of the fans hadn't been let in with free tickets, and normally support Stockport).
Then there's a min or so, then the ref does that irritating little tv sign with his hands, and then there's a couple more mins, all passion gone, silence, and then no goal, and it's just farcical really.
I'm with Danny Baker - I love the feeling that there's some outrage, you might have gotten away with something etc.
At least we'll still have it, unless we draw a Premier team away in the cup.
Yep, why not.
No officials, and just massive booming voices, and screens like 1984.
The players don't have any opportunity to dissent, as there's noone there.
Any delaying free kicks, an instant booking. That would almost instantly reduce that tactic - one of Pep's finest, along with rotational fouls.
But but for VAR, Man City would be in the semis and Tottenham would have been wrongly deprived, possibly never to get the opportunity again.
Outrage and injustice proves we are still alive. I'm glad we are still dependent on unfit part-time little Hitlers (I'm not doing the salute!) making terrible mistakes for and against us myself. I seem to recall Michael Oliver (lauded on TV the other day for being a fine official) in his early days giving us a goal that had actually rolled out of play to the side of the upright.
I would always choose justice over injustice
... and VAR is much more suited to a TV / ifollow audience isn't it?
It's football @DevC not the last part of a Midsomer Murders.
Still the same though. I prefer getting important decisions right rather than allowing them to be wrong. technology moves on. We have moved ahead of waving flags
Yes, but as your never in a stadium or have any particular allegiance to a team @DevC
You will rarely have felt the euphoric emotion of a last minute winner.
Yeah, imagine you've absolutely ruined your trousers in euphoria, and then suddenly notice the ref is fiddling around on his earpiece and trotting down to casually a watch a bit of tv for a few mins.
Then it's off.
Dreadful.
Many, many times that we've cheered a goal then spotted the flag! VAR sometimes just takes things over a slightly longer time frame really. Wasn't really a fan initially but I'm slowly growing into it.
VAR is dreadful, and last night's fiasco confirmed it
Linesmen now do not flag for marginal decisions. They wait for the passage of play to take its course knowing they can check it afterwards. They are actually instructed to do this.
Without VAR the linesman would have flagged for that offside. With it, he let the play continue because he didn't want to flag and be proven wrong.
That's before we get on to the sheer cruelty of letting a team's fans experience the exhilaration of a last minute winner only to have it snatched away minutes later.
VAR is the worst thing to happen to football in my lifetime. I hate it.
I can see both sides of this argument. On the one hand, the introduction of VAR has compromised the spontaneity of moments like City’s last minute ‘goal’ and the celebrations that followed it, but on the other hand it has righted possible wrongs. What I don’t understand is that it was only supposed to be used for ‘clear and obvious errors’ and that phrase certainly didn’t apply to Llorente’s goal and arguably didn’t for the offside decision either. On balance, I’m a fan of goal line technology because that’s black or white but I’m unsure about VAR.
Can't stand VAR myself. It's farcical in my view that it's being used for marginal 50/50 decisions. I can understand when it's used to reverse a clear wrong decision, but these are not as frequent as we imagine them to be. Mostly it seems to be used for things like the Man Utd penalty V PSG. It causes as much controversy as it alleviates.
If you drink in Monty's pre match, you don't need euphoria to ruin your trolleys.With each draught pint, they should issue beer nappys in preference to beer mats.
@glasshalffull , yes, goalline tech is unarguable - as it's instant. I'm not sure how much it costs, but I can't believe it costs that much to stop other divisions below the Premier league having it.
The obvious mistakes thing is again, more acceptable, but now it's panned out as being a bunch of faceless individuals watch every goal back, watch every pen and situation back, and are chipping away in the ref's ear.
Yet strangely, the ref still gets the final say, which is what delays it all, as he has to trot to a tv, watch for a min or 2, and then trot back.
Also, does it only review pens that are awarded, not ones that aren't?
I remember McTominay was possibly tripped in the Barcelona home game, but they didn't even review it, yet the pen given against was reviewed.
It seems a right old carry on, but at least in league 1 we don't have to worry about such things.
The main time I'd have been in favour for us, was when that QPR idiot ref sent McSporran and Senda off for the same crime!
Watching that back on video now gets me so angry, and I wasn't even there.
@Malone, remember the Spurs v City first leg there was a VAR penalty given for a kick that wasn't awarded or even called for by the City players. That being said I imagine Sky and BT were initially left wondering what the hell they were going to talk about post game with VAR coming but it turns out it is still just as divisive
I meant handball not kick
I just wonder if the tiny handful of decisions you'd really wished were spotted, like Maradona's handball, that Lampard goal a mile over the line are worth the 100s of hours of lost debate about being robbed, or getting away with one.
Once the initial controversy of this being new has settled down.
England’s third in 1966.
ssshhh we're comfy with that.
If it has to be used, then why can't it follow cricket's system. Each manager should be allowed to demand VAR twice only during a match. If a referee decision is proved wrong, the respective manager doesn't lose the review.
@mooneyman yes I'd wondered myself whether VAR could go down the cricket route. Possibly it would be an improvement on the current set up, but of course every late goal would be subject to an appeal in the desperate hope of finding some reason to disallow it. Fines for frivolous appeals perhaps? Not sure that would make much difference with the top end of the game so awash with money.
@Malone I remember the McSporran sending off well. He was stood on the half way line whilst the melee took place in the penalty box. The single worst decision I've ever seen! The equivalent of a goalkeeper being sent of for a 2 footed tackle by a midfielder in the centre circle!