No idea about the pyrotechnic device in the away end - saw or heard absolutely nothing like that, and I was leaving about the same time as the vocal element.
The part about inappropriate behaviour outside the ground is correct though. Saw police and stewards moving at a variety of speeds towards the bus stop about 100 m from the ground as I waited to leave the car park. Heard a lot of the sort of (rather sad) anti-Col. U. chanting that went on during the game from time to time. Not the time or place for it at the bus stop while waiting with other people, including, of course, many Colchester fans. Didn't see any actual "trouble" but was not in eyesight so couldn't have done had any taken place.
Inappropriate behaviour could well include the liberal use of expletives in the anti-Col U chanting by a group of yoofs in the car park outside the stadium after the game. I saw no pyrotechnic device.
The fb had a lot of people pouncing on the twitter account apparently of an individual Col u policeman (since when do individuals take it upon themselves to write as the voice of a policeforce?!) saying that there were No arrests and no trouble, or suchlike.
But right under the post is a comment about, what about the flare let off, and he goes on to say that's being investigated.
There was definitely a flare let off but that was before the game ended. As I drove out of the car park there were definitely a number of our 'supporters' having a bit of an argument with stewards and police involving some pushing, shoving and more than a little choice language resulting in at least one being led away by the police - didn't see what started it or how it all ended.
I was on a waiting bus and saw the yoof group congregating nearby and generally being boorish but nothing more. One indicated the score through the window of the bus at us, not realising we were Wycombe fans!
The investigation should involve the piss-poor organisation at Colchester. Why on earth to they park the away coaches at the opposite end of the ground (behind the home end) so the opposing fans inevitably meet after the game. Furthermore, for a high-profile game why don't they have a bus to the station parked by the away end after the game?
I'm not condoning bad behaviour but at least Colchester should organise themselves to minimise any problems. One of the problems of our-of-town grounds is getting people away after the game to the station or town centre. They need to review this situation.
I respectfully but completely disagree, @A_Worboys. If a group of people can't take themselves away from a game of football in an ordinary, considerate, civilised manner, that is completely their responsibility and no-one else's. In no other sporting event in this country is this so. All of us who made our own way to the ground, rather than by bus, met other Colchester fans on the way out. Oddly, it seemed possible for all concerned not to behave insultingly. It happens every game at Wycombe, too. It's called life.
Is it really the case that some fellow Wycombe supporters are so pathetically lacking in any of the life skills possessed by even the most modestly gifted six year old that they need to be picked up from directly outside the ground for fear that they will embarrass or shame themselves (and those associated with them) by their conduct. Do we all wish to be funnelled en masse in future away games via a police cordon into the away end and away from it at the end because these utter dolts cannot comport themselves with any consideration for fellow human beings? I say no with bells on. Instead of passing blame to our hosts on Saturday, who without exception were wholly friendly and accommodating when I interracted with them, let us put it where it belongs. I suggest embarrassment is the proper reaction, not blameshifting.
Excellent post @HCblue. Why should the Neananderthal conduct of a minority of our "supporters" result in the game with Colchester being labelled "high profile"?
These morons are really starting to cause the club and the majority of the supporter base some problems. The cost in fines and additional policing will soon add up and the increased security at games will make it a much less relaxing atmosphere for us all in the future.
These idiots need to be shopped by those on the edges of the group or told to grow up. As someone who spent more years than not following Wycombe in unsegregated and normally friendly grounds I fail to see how people have to be so disrespectful to others when the opportunity to mix with fans of other teams happen.
@HCblue I'm not defending it at all. I'm just dealing with the situation as exists or trying to shift the blame. If you went to Layer Road 20+ years ago you'll know there have always been problems at this fixture.
It still doesn't answer why Colchester feel it's a good idea to park the away coaches by the exit from the home end rather than simply drive them up to the away end after the game? I'm an advocate of Non-League football where you can chat to whoever. But a bit more planning is needed for a potentially problematic fixture like this. The same would go for games against Luton, Oxford and Bristol Rovers. You have to deal with reality not idealism.
@A_Worboys - Instead of castigating the away club for not taking special measures (at their cost) to control our yobs, shouldn't you be pressing our club to actually deal with them. Hopefully the current investigation will result in some positive action being taken but I have my doubts.
@mooneyman I'm not castigating Colchester per se but just saying do a couple of things better to minimise any potential problems (by the way there were home fans ready to have a go outside before the match too).
Please just answer one point with a simple yes or no. Do you think it's a good idea to park the away coaches outside the home end exits when they could be parked at the away end instead?
The coach comment made me remember Man City away when we had to run the gauntlet to get to our coaches through thousands of City fans who were less than impressed by our historic day out.
I remember being kept in the old Layer Road away end after matches so the home fans had time to leave the ground and congregate by the away exit. This was in the bad old days of a real rivalry and at least once led to being pushed back in to the terrace as a fight broke out at the exit.
@A_Worboys I do wonder if you're making these points in the right place. As you imply, where the coaches park is a matter for the home club. I'd be interested to know what they have to say, if you felt minded to raise it with them, rather than with the relatively powerless members of the Gasroom community.
Letting a flare off in the ground should not be tolerated and the perpetrator should be help to account but "anti social behaviour " ? it sounds like some younger fans getting boisterous and trying to wind up the away fans . There were apparently not arrests . The Colchester police said "no offences committed " . I think people need to accept we do not have a hooligan problem and trying to make out that we have is not helpful .Some young men are bound to act in this way . Who ever let off the flare should be banned as the club have warned about it on countless occasions but banning young men for acting like some young men do ? . I feel this world we live in is becoming far too sensitive , these same "anti social" fans were also likely to have been some of the most vocal inside the ground . The manager himself praised the volume created by the fans , ban some of the younger fans for being boisterous will only mean less singing and support for the team during the match in my opinion and would be a big mistake . Leaving the ground in high spirits and wanting to wind up the away fans is a million miles away form hooliganism . It is not unique to this club and it is being made into something it is not . This was a football match not a Christmas panto at the Swan . Move on .
I would answer "yes" to that question, as in there's not good reason not to assume that people are capable of walking to their coach home without needlessly and rudely antagonising other people. Anything that encourages segregation serves to perpetuate the absurd notion that fans of different clubs are incapable of intermingling normally. It is this unspoken assumption that, in fact, fuels the antisocial behaviour of these people, most of whom lack the imagination to do anything other than follow those around them. Taken individually, there was no-one in that group on Saturday that would remotely think of behaving as they did on Sunday, nor would they speak so rudely to someone sitting next to them at the game.
If anything, I would like to see an end to segregation of away fans. By all means have sections of the ground dedicated to those fans, of both teams, that wish to sing in unison. But otherwise, why not just let people sit and enjoy the game.
@A_Worboys - No, but there must be some logistical reason why they do this. If not, surely the police would require Colchester to do as you suggest as it would make their job of policing games easier.
@James said:
Letting a flare off in the ground should not be tolerated and the perpetrator should be help to account but "anti social behaviour " ? it sounds like some younger fans getting boisterous and trying to wind up the away fans . There were apparently not arrests . The Colchester police said "no offences committed " . I think people need to accept we do not have a hooligan problem and trying to make out that we have is not helpful .Some young men are bound to act in this way . Who ever let off the flare should be banned as the club have warned about it on countless occasions but banning young men for acting like some young men do ? . I feel this world we live in is becoming far too sensitive , these same "anti social" fans were also likely to have been some of the most vocal inside the ground . The manager himself praised the volume created by the fans , ban some of the younger fans for being boisterous will only mean less singing and support for the team during the match in my opinion and would be a big mistake . Leaving the ground in high spirits and wanting to wind up the away fans is a million miles away form hooliganism . It is not unique to this club and it is being made into something it is not . This was a football match not a Christmas panto at the Swan . Move on .
Well bloody said. It's almost like some people actually want us to have a problem so that they have something to moan about. A few lads boasting a fantastic victory to our old foes fans after a game.. hardly hooliganism.
@HCblue said:
I would answer "no" to that question. Anything that encourages segregation serves to perpetuate the absurd notion that fans of different clubs are incapable of intermingling normally. It is this unspoken assumption that, in fact, fuels the antisocial behaviour of these people, most of whom lack the imagination to do anything other than follow those around them. Taken individually, there was no-one in that group on Saturday that would remotely think of behaving as they did on Sunday, nor would they speak so rudely to someone sitting next to them at the game.
If anything, I would like to see an end to segregation of away fans. By all means have sections of the ground dedicated to those fans, of both teams, that wish to sing in unison. But otherwise, why not just let people sit and enjoy the game.
This is football. Segregation will ALWAYS be a thing. It's just the way it is. Unfortunately the way you wish football to be will simply never ever happen and is incredibly unrealistic
@HCblue , lovely sentiments, but to suggest no segregation is bonkers. You can't change mentalities and tribalism just like that.
It might work at lowly non league level, but you're generally dealing with miniscule crowds.
Even at the Wycombe Maidenhead friendly last year I saw some little flashpoints. Luckily nothing came of it, as the Maidenhead contingent were mostly 12 year olds!
I have attended football matches over the last 60 years. I vast majority of opposing fans I have met have always been normal courteous people, who are happy to discuss the merits of players from both teams. If a few idiots cannot behave in a civilised manner, regardless of where their coach is parked, then the responsibility for their poor behaviour rests with themselves.
If Col U. are to be held accountable for it's parking arrangements for away coaches, then WWFC will fair no better in this respect. It is impossible to access or leave AP without coming into contact with opposing fans.
I find myself enormously depressed by the responses to my last post. "Segregation will always be a thing...the way you want to football to be is incredibly unrealistic"? It is pathetically unimaginative to describe as unrealistic the idea that people watching sport might be able to behave in civilised fashion towards fellow spectators. If that is the majority view among football fans, football is sunk and I might need to find a better way to spend my time than around people with such a limited, miserable world view.
From a distance, I witnessed the behaviour described. Absolutely, it was a continuation of the singing inside the ground which, while mean-spirited and petty, was the right time and place for it, if there is such a thing. Is it so hard to understand that once the game is over, the game is over and we revert to being fellow human beings? Surely, not one person reading this harbours actual malice to a Colchester fan because he/she supports that team rather than ours? This is the stuff of the playground. You don't need to describe it as hooliganism to deprecate the behaviour. Not for nothing did the police run over to the bus stop. The behaviour, however you might like to characterise it after the event, created a hostile atmosphere that was both unjustified and uncivilised. It was wholly the creation of "our" fans. It would have been highly unpleasant for you to stand outside Wycombe's ground waiting for the bus there to leave to be surrounded by dozens of away fans singing abusive songs and taunting you and other Wycombe supporters while you peacefully waited to get on with your life. Why is it so hard to accept that the reverse is true?
@HCblue said:
I find myself enormously depressed by the responses to my last post. "Segregation will always be a thing...the way you want to football to be is incredibly unrealistic"? It is pathetically unimaginative to describe as unrealistic the idea that people watching sport might be able to behave in civilised fashion towards fellow spectators. If that is the majority view among football fans, football is sunk and I might need to find a better way to spend my time than around people with such a limited, miserable world view.
From a distance, I witnessed the behaviour described. Absolutely, it was a continuation of the singing inside the ground which, while mean-spirited and petty, was the right time and place for it, if there is such a thing. Is it so hard to understand that once the game is over, the game is over and we revert to being fellow human beings? Surely, not one person reading this harbours actual malice to a Colchester fan because he/she supports that team rather than ours? This is the stuff of the playground. You don't need to describe it as hooliganism to deprecate the behaviour. Not for nothing did the police run over to the bus stop. The behaviour, however you might like to characterise it after the event, created a hostile atmosphere that was both unjustified and uncivilised. It was wholly the creation of "our" fans. It would have been highly unpleasant for you to stand outside Wycombe's ground waiting for the bus there to leave to be surrounded by dozens of away fans singing abusive songs and taunting you and other Wycombe supporters while you peacefully waited to get on with your life. Why is it so hard to accept that the reverse is true?
If only every football fan thought like you HCBlue, then we'd have no football violence and no need for police whatsoever! Unfortunately this is the real world and not a fantasy!
HC, i'm pretty sure everyone reading your posts would agree to a lot of it. It's why most of us can manage to go to a game, and not abuse anyone, not get into any issues, and not make anyone else feel unsafe.
However, you'll always get the small section who can't go without the above. And it's why you can't take segregation away, as those types cause the problems.
Comments
No idea about the pyrotechnic device in the away end - saw or heard absolutely nothing like that, and I was leaving about the same time as the vocal element.
The part about inappropriate behaviour outside the ground is correct though. Saw police and stewards moving at a variety of speeds towards the bus stop about 100 m from the ground as I waited to leave the car park. Heard a lot of the sort of (rather sad) anti-Col. U. chanting that went on during the game from time to time. Not the time or place for it at the bus stop while waiting with other people, including, of course, many Colchester fans. Didn't see any actual "trouble" but was not in eyesight so couldn't have done had any taken place.
Inappropriate behaviour could well include the liberal use of expletives in the anti-Col U chanting by a group of yoofs in the car park outside the stadium after the game. I saw no pyrotechnic device.
The fb had a lot of people pouncing on the twitter account apparently of an individual Col u policeman (since when do individuals take it upon themselves to write as the voice of a policeforce?!) saying that there were No arrests and no trouble, or suchlike.
But right under the post is a comment about, what about the flare let off, and he goes on to say that's being investigated.
Ho hum
There was definitely a flare let off but that was before the game ended. As I drove out of the car park there were definitely a number of our 'supporters' having a bit of an argument with stewards and police involving some pushing, shoving and more than a little choice language resulting in at least one being led away by the police - didn't see what started it or how it all ended.
I’m sure our “loyal supporters” are worth every penny of the “several thousand pounds” the additional police costs will come to
But they go to Carlisle away etc etc
I was on a waiting bus and saw the yoof group congregating nearby and generally being boorish but nothing more. One indicated the score through the window of the bus at us, not realising we were Wycombe fans!
And there was a flare or smoke bomb in the away end down the far left before the final whistle but I don't think it prompted any asthma attacks
The investigation should involve the piss-poor organisation at Colchester. Why on earth to they park the away coaches at the opposite end of the ground (behind the home end) so the opposing fans inevitably meet after the game. Furthermore, for a high-profile game why don't they have a bus to the station parked by the away end after the game?
I'm not condoning bad behaviour but at least Colchester should organise themselves to minimise any problems. One of the problems of our-of-town grounds is getting people away after the game to the station or town centre. They need to review this situation.
I respectfully but completely disagree, @A_Worboys. If a group of people can't take themselves away from a game of football in an ordinary, considerate, civilised manner, that is completely their responsibility and no-one else's. In no other sporting event in this country is this so. All of us who made our own way to the ground, rather than by bus, met other Colchester fans on the way out. Oddly, it seemed possible for all concerned not to behave insultingly. It happens every game at Wycombe, too. It's called life.
Is it really the case that some fellow Wycombe supporters are so pathetically lacking in any of the life skills possessed by even the most modestly gifted six year old that they need to be picked up from directly outside the ground for fear that they will embarrass or shame themselves (and those associated with them) by their conduct. Do we all wish to be funnelled en masse in future away games via a police cordon into the away end and away from it at the end because these utter dolts cannot comport themselves with any consideration for fellow human beings? I say no with bells on. Instead of passing blame to our hosts on Saturday, who without exception were wholly friendly and accommodating when I interracted with them, let us put it where it belongs. I suggest embarrassment is the proper reaction, not blameshifting.
Excellent post @HCblue. Why should the Neananderthal conduct of a minority of our "supporters" result in the game with Colchester being labelled "high profile"?
These morons are really starting to cause the club and the majority of the supporter base some problems. The cost in fines and additional policing will soon add up and the increased security at games will make it a much less relaxing atmosphere for us all in the future.
These idiots need to be shopped by those on the edges of the group or told to grow up. As someone who spent more years than not following Wycombe in unsegregated and normally friendly grounds I fail to see how people have to be so disrespectful to others when the opportunity to mix with fans of other teams happen.
@HCblue I'm not defending it at all. I'm just dealing with the situation as exists or trying to shift the blame. If you went to Layer Road 20+ years ago you'll know there have always been problems at this fixture.
It still doesn't answer why Colchester feel it's a good idea to park the away coaches by the exit from the home end rather than simply drive them up to the away end after the game? I'm an advocate of Non-League football where you can chat to whoever. But a bit more planning is needed for a potentially problematic fixture like this. The same would go for games against Luton, Oxford and Bristol Rovers. You have to deal with reality not idealism.
@A_Worboys - Instead of castigating the away club for not taking special measures (at their cost) to control our yobs, shouldn't you be pressing our club to actually deal with them. Hopefully the current investigation will result in some positive action being taken but I have my doubts.
@mooneyman I'm not castigating Colchester per se but just saying do a couple of things better to minimise any potential problems (by the way there were home fans ready to have a go outside before the match too).
Please just answer one point with a simple yes or no. Do you think it's a good idea to park the away coaches outside the home end exits when they could be parked at the away end instead?
The coach comment made me remember Man City away when we had to run the gauntlet to get to our coaches through thousands of City fans who were less than impressed by our historic day out.
I remember being kept in the old Layer Road away end after matches so the home fans had time to leave the ground and congregate by the away exit. This was in the bad old days of a real rivalry and at least once led to being pushed back in to the terrace as a fight broke out at the exit.
@A_Worboys I do wonder if you're making these points in the right place. As you imply, where the coaches park is a matter for the home club. I'd be interested to know what they have to say, if you felt minded to raise it with them, rather than with the relatively powerless members of the Gasroom community.
Letting a flare off in the ground should not be tolerated and the perpetrator should be help to account but "anti social behaviour " ? it sounds like some younger fans getting boisterous and trying to wind up the away fans . There were apparently not arrests . The Colchester police said "no offences committed " . I think people need to accept we do not have a hooligan problem and trying to make out that we have is not helpful .Some young men are bound to act in this way . Who ever let off the flare should be banned as the club have warned about it on countless occasions but banning young men for acting like some young men do ? . I feel this world we live in is becoming far too sensitive , these same "anti social" fans were also likely to have been some of the most vocal inside the ground . The manager himself praised the volume created by the fans , ban some of the younger fans for being boisterous will only mean less singing and support for the team during the match in my opinion and would be a big mistake . Leaving the ground in high spirits and wanting to wind up the away fans is a million miles away form hooliganism . It is not unique to this club and it is being made into something it is not . This was a football match not a Christmas panto at the Swan . Move on .
I would answer "yes" to that question, as in there's not good reason not to assume that people are capable of walking to their coach home without needlessly and rudely antagonising other people. Anything that encourages segregation serves to perpetuate the absurd notion that fans of different clubs are incapable of intermingling normally. It is this unspoken assumption that, in fact, fuels the antisocial behaviour of these people, most of whom lack the imagination to do anything other than follow those around them. Taken individually, there was no-one in that group on Saturday that would remotely think of behaving as they did on Sunday, nor would they speak so rudely to someone sitting next to them at the game.
If anything, I would like to see an end to segregation of away fans. By all means have sections of the ground dedicated to those fans, of both teams, that wish to sing in unison. But otherwise, why not just let people sit and enjoy the game.
I wish you luck in your Idealistic dream HCBlue .
@A_Worboys - No, but there must be some logistical reason why they do this. If not, surely the police would require Colchester to do as you suggest as it would make their job of policing games easier.
Well bloody said. It's almost like some people actually want us to have a problem so that they have something to moan about. A few lads boasting a fantastic victory to our old foes fans after a game.. hardly hooliganism.
This is football. Segregation will ALWAYS be a thing. It's just the way it is. Unfortunately the way you wish football to be will simply never ever happen and is incredibly unrealistic
@HCblue , lovely sentiments, but to suggest no segregation is bonkers. You can't change mentalities and tribalism just like that.
It might work at lowly non league level, but you're generally dealing with miniscule crowds.
Even at the Wycombe Maidenhead friendly last year I saw some little flashpoints. Luckily nothing came of it, as the Maidenhead contingent were mostly 12 year olds!
I have attended football matches over the last 60 years. I vast majority of opposing fans I have met have always been normal courteous people, who are happy to discuss the merits of players from both teams. If a few idiots cannot behave in a civilised manner, regardless of where their coach is parked, then the responsibility for their poor behaviour rests with themselves.
If Col U. are to be held accountable for it's parking arrangements for away coaches, then WWFC will fair no better in this respect. It is impossible to access or leave AP without coming into contact with opposing fans.
I find myself enormously depressed by the responses to my last post. "Segregation will always be a thing...the way you want to football to be is incredibly unrealistic"? It is pathetically unimaginative to describe as unrealistic the idea that people watching sport might be able to behave in civilised fashion towards fellow spectators. If that is the majority view among football fans, football is sunk and I might need to find a better way to spend my time than around people with such a limited, miserable world view.
From a distance, I witnessed the behaviour described. Absolutely, it was a continuation of the singing inside the ground which, while mean-spirited and petty, was the right time and place for it, if there is such a thing. Is it so hard to understand that once the game is over, the game is over and we revert to being fellow human beings? Surely, not one person reading this harbours actual malice to a Colchester fan because he/she supports that team rather than ours? This is the stuff of the playground. You don't need to describe it as hooliganism to deprecate the behaviour. Not for nothing did the police run over to the bus stop. The behaviour, however you might like to characterise it after the event, created a hostile atmosphere that was both unjustified and uncivilised. It was wholly the creation of "our" fans. It would have been highly unpleasant for you to stand outside Wycombe's ground waiting for the bus there to leave to be surrounded by dozens of away fans singing abusive songs and taunting you and other Wycombe supporters while you peacefully waited to get on with your life. Why is it so hard to accept that the reverse is true?
If only every football fan thought like you HCBlue, then we'd have no football violence and no need for police whatsoever! Unfortunately this is the real world and not a fantasy!
HC, i'm pretty sure everyone reading your posts would agree to a lot of it. It's why most of us can manage to go to a game, and not abuse anyone, not get into any issues, and not make anyone else feel unsafe.
However, you'll always get the small section who can't go without the above. And it's why you can't take segregation away, as those types cause the problems.
@HCblue do you ever watch live football other than Wycombe matches, out of interest?