I can only speak for Montys...as all of its pumps had broken we were transported back to 1885 and beer being poured out of big jugs. I assume the new manager used to be at The Chiltern Open Air Museum.
my criticisms and obtuse tone have offended some here however this is getting to the crux of my frustration.At a time when we are selling players and making trust statements about cash flow shortfalls month to month and our trust board are looking to lenders and indeed bigger much more critical investment discussions ( ownership), the same directors are in my opinion also responsible for improving and getting the basic management and operations right especially in revenue streams such as food and beverage.
I'm frustrated lately that we are crying poor yet not manging the critical business areas at the same high level that GA and AH apply to our football operations. The bottom line is, well the bottom line. Revenue being missed or lost directly affects playing budget.
Generally I find other club's food in terms of choice and quality is much higher than ours. I used to buy food at every home match but now I only do if I am desperate.
Which is a rather telling position Mooneyman. We have 30 home matches with cups and friendlies give or take one or two either way?
Some basic industry figures tell us 40% of turnover is profit on food and beverage at a conservative estimate.
Big modern stadiums for concerts and matches get huge numbers in terms of average spend per head and no one is saying we should compete with them however let's look at a very low target of £6 spend per supporter at Adams park - a beer in Monty's or Vere Suite before kick off and something from the T bar at halftime or during the match would see a turnover of £24000 per match at home in all outlets with a net profit of £9600 per match. £288,000 per season of revenue in clear profit toward playing budget which is a large portion of the total playing budget if last years £1million budget is correct.
If most of our core supporters agree that our T bars and overall food and beverage service and value are poor, below average and have been for a number of years. Surely it stands to reason that we are missing a huge opportunity , or at best costing ourselves tens , if not hundreds of thousands of relatively core revenue? No improvement or focus in a few seasons seems extremely wasteful and neglectful given the large portion of our operating profit this represents in my opinion.
Do you know what the current average spend per head is? Otherwise your calculations are pointless without something to compare against.
I agree the food in the stadium is dreadful (I stop off at the excellent van outside the gates myself) but there are always queues at the outlets in the stadium so we must be selling something despite it being bad
Got to agree that Monty's was a complete shambles on Saturday. I rarely moan as I know the club is on a shoestring but it was comically bad:
Bar had no-one behind it for the first 5 minutes of the Sunderland game despite several people waiting and requesting bar staff. Most of the lights turned off too.
First game of the season, so months to prepare. No card machines.
Couldn't get any card machines from the Vere as they only had one.
Smelt rather peculiar. A bit like hot sick.
Steward at the front entrance couldn't even tell me if they were even intending to televise the early KO in there. They did turn it on just about in time but with no sound for the first 25 minutes despite multiple requests.
No Heineken on tap, as it was cloudy and too lively. Only overpriced bottles.
Opted for bloody Fosters for lack of other draught option, was cloudy and tasted like gone off tomato juice
Saw two people return pints of that Theakstons bitter for also being cloudy and generally tasting like arse as well.
As a result, we were in and out of there after one bottle of Heineken and a revolting Fosters, and had a better experience in the Vere.
All the beer and cider pumps in the Woodland Lounge were producing luke warm fluids. We rather shrugged it off at the time (a) because we were just delighted to be back and looking forward to a game of football and (b) because there was nothing we could do about it. We were offered and, with no chilled alternative, accepted, bottled beer that appeared to have been in the fridge for maybe a quarter of an hour.
I can’t speak for other outlets but, for the same problem to have occurred in the Caledonian (Vere) Suite, a hugely more populated area, full of much younger folk and some serious ale connoisseurs, well, that is certainly a matter for concern.
Well progress at least. At least marlow Chair has found something substantive to complain about.
But I am afraid his numbers for lost contribution are nonsensical.
Firstly he appears to assume nil revenue currently. That is plainly factually wrong.
He ignores the issues with catering at football matches which relate to timing. There will be some home and away who wish to arrive at 1pm and have a beer or two. I understand that these are reasonably well catered for inside and in the "beer tent" outside when economic to open.
The vast majority of fans though will arrive between 230 and 250. It is just about possible you may sell something to them then but probably not. Then there is a ten minute window between 345 and 355 ish. The idea that you will get anything like a £6 average spend per fan in that ten minute window would seem to me to be fanciful.
Is there any evidence to support this contention from say other football clubs?
Reality is that it is very hard to service a 5000 crowd all wanting to buy a tea in a ten minute window but then having nothing for those staff to do outside that window.
The claim of a £300k shortfall due to mismanagement (or anything like it simply doesn't stack up). Do you have anything more credible marlow?
@FmG is right...I don't eat me dinner at the football...but poor quality or not the queue at the kiosk seemed the same as usual. So if it's bad, they are paying for it. Monty's was a pretty poor show and there seemed to be no-one doing...or able to do anything about it. I got there about 2pm and people were still buying beer eventhough it was being poured from a jug. As @micra pointed out there was little we could do about it. I don't eat and I drive so am reduced to drinking shandy...but two 50/50s and a beer easily went over your £6. And we all know fatties like chips...lukewarm or not. I'm assuming they will get their act together....not panicking yet. Did the Board sack the last manager @marlowchair ? Is it your belief they are purposefully wrecking the hospitality?
I don’t like criticising the club. I appreciate that so many people achieve a lot on a shoestring. But…
So many opportunities were missed on Saturday. I turned up at 2:50pm and bought a coke from the Terrace kiosk, which despite coming out of the fridge was definitely a few degrees above room temperature. I would’ve bought another drink at half time had it been quickly available and cold – why not set up a few ice buckets away from the kiosk and sell properly chilled drinks out of those? Why not set up a Beechdean ice cream station in the car park pre and post-match? The club have huge opportunity to make a decent wad of money from food and drink when the weather is either very hot or very cold, so it was a real shame to see this missed when there are some simple opportunities available.
@Last_Quarter They were selling drinks from an ice bucket against Stevenage, out of that Bisto hut in the terrace that is usually never open. It was a great idea and also alleviated the pressure on the other T bar.
Shame they didn't do it on Saturday - I too had a room temperature drink pre-match and didn't bother returning at half time.
@DevC said:
Well progress at least. At least marlow Chair has found something substantive to complain about.
But I am afraid his numbers for lost contribution are nonsensical.
Firstly he appears to assume nil revenue currently. That is plainly factually wrong.
He ignores the issues with catering at football matches which relate to timing. There will be some home and away who wish to arrive at 1pm and have a beer or two. I understand that these are reasonably well catered for inside and in the "beer tent" outside when economic to open.
The vast majority of fans though will arrive between 230 and 250. It is just about possible you may sell something to them then but probably not. Then there is a ten minute window between 345 and 355 ish. The idea that you will get anything like a £6 average spend per fan in that ten minute window would seem to me to be fanciful.
Is there any evidence to support this contention from say other football clubs?
Reality is that it is very hard to service a 5000 crowd all wanting to buy a tea in a ten minute window but then having nothing for those staff to do outside that window.
The claim of a £300k shortfall due to mismanagement (or anything like it simply doesn't stack up). Do you have anything more credible marlow?
I didn't suggest a £300L shortfall but that wouldn't support your job as henchman to Bully opposing views....
I used rough numbers that are clearly stated as guesswork taken from other industry figures a basic google search presented. I said that at £6 per head the yearly profit would be around that mark.
The point I made was that if we all agree our food and beverage options and service are poor, and as many regulars have said on here they choose NOT to spend on food and beverage at Adams Park, having "given up" over recent years, then there is a substantial missed opportunity. It isn't that hard to comprehend Dev. If our current profit per year is only £100K then so be it, if it is £300K so be it, if it is £600K so be it....that only tells us the market as it's been pointed out above that lines are still decent and we still sell the dogfood equivelent despite it's quality. The point being that if it is 40% of it's optimal performance as a revenue stream, then if it is currently profiting £100K in its current form which we all agree is poor, then optimally it will be earning the club much more in profit.
that's credible common sense Dev. Let me simplify it for you ( and I hope you are not in any position that can influence the running of our club such is your defeatist attitude toward the challenge of improving the offering and profitability of our match day food and beverage department)
Majority of supporters agree our bars and food are pants.
It turns over a decent profit yearly. I worked out a profit of around £300K at £6 spend per head but that's isn't the point, it could be £100K per year it could be £600K
So we mostly agree that even us as regular passionate supporters don't spend as much as we might due to the poor quality and operational failings of the Food and Bev.
It therefore stands to reason and common sense that if it were better , that profit would increase.
At a time when we are selling players and our trust is saying cashflow is an issue, I think even my most ardent critic might see clear to agree that it isn't an ideal situation.
We all contributed to a player transfer fund recently that saw £75K requested to help Gareth in the market. At 40% profit on turnover that equates to £6600 spend per match extra required yearly at our outlets. £1.6 per person.
If we get our act together that is easily attainable. My point is that it is an area that has been a problem for a long time and that on day one of a new season appears to have deteriorated further the burger I was served was not fit for human consumption. Are you happy with that Dev or will you and Right_In_The_Middle continue to argue against my point purely because I am the one making it?
There is no guesswork in saying the food and beverage operation is poor at our club Right in the Middle and that view is supported by a majority of gasroomers it would appear.
If the profit each year from it is only £100 but could/should be £140 are you happy with that?
That's a very long post when you could have just said you have no idea what we are making from match day food and have made up some numbers to hope to create a false impression and are now desperately rowing back.
Could match day food and drink be improved. of course. it always can. Could it make a material difference to the bottom line, my guess is not.
I’ve read these posts with interest and there is clearly an issue here. However, making complaints on social media -no matter how valid-isn’t going to lead to any improvement in the situation. Can I respectfully suggest that someone collates the many sensible suggestions and sends them to the club where they will hopefully be taken into consideration.
@marlowchair I'm not sure anyone (outside of the men in the WWFC Board car outside your house checking your Gasroom postings) is bullying you about your views...just asking for a bit of clarity or disagreeing with you. But you seem to be saying the food and beverage side of things is crap...but it turns a profit....but it could be more profit. That could be said about most things. Perhaps if it is turning a profit it is not a side the Board feels it has to focus on. That may not be a good thing but it might not be a priority at present. They might have more pressing issues to deal with. Also having told us all for a week now it was poorly run and poor quality food...why did you have a burger at all?
(As a regular at Adams Park I don't eat my meals there, so you could get Jamie Ramsey's Football Dinners in for all I care and I would not hand over my hard earned...)
@DevC said:
That's a very long post when you could have just said you have no idea what we are making from match day food and have made up some numbers to hope to create a false impression and are now desperately rowing back.
@Wendoverman said: @FmG is right...I don't eat me dinner at the football...but poor quality or not the queue at the kiosk seemed the same as usual. So if it's bad, they are paying for it. Monty's was a pretty poor show and there seemed to be no-one doing...or able to do anything about it. I got there about 2pm and people were still buying beer eventhough it was being poured from a jug. As @micra pointed out there was little we could do about it. I don't eat and I drive so am reduced to drinking shandy...but two 50/50s and a beer easily went over your £6. And we all know fatties like chips...lukewarm or not. I'm assuming they will get their act together....not panicking yet. Did the Board sack the last manager @marlowchair ? Is it your belief they are purposefully wrecking the hospitality?
No it isn't Wendoverman I don't think they or anyone are purposefully wrecking anything. No managers have been sacked or appointed to be fair.Things just seem to contiuously be ignored in terms of supporters complaints around the food and beverage.
I'm accused by Dev and Right in the MIddle of making things up.I don't.the vast majority of Food outlets and businesses within a radius of a few miles of Adams Park have a 5 star hygeine rating. This means " Very good". Don't take my word for it the My Wycombe council website has a search feature.
Our club has a 3 rating. We were assessed late last season as prior to May 2018 we were a 2 star rating. That is low, very low compared to the area and when seeing some of the establishments who score that low mark. Our staff worked hard towards the end of last season knowing the inspectors were coming and managed to get back to a 3 star rating but still issues were highlighted by the inspectors and still we are not at the level we were 24 months ago when we were stripped of our 4 stars and given 2 which we remained at for over 12 months.
Training,investment in people,supervision,people management,support are all needed in these industry areas to avoid long term decline in standards and compliance.
@DevC said:
That's a very long post when you could have just said you have no idea what we are making from match day food and have made up some numbers to hope to create a false impression and are now desperately rowing back.
Could match day food and drink be improved. of course. it always can. Could it make a material difference to the bottom line, my guess is not.
You have a good point @marlowchair that the catering facilities could be improved.
However, you inflate the financial importance of this way beyond what is reasonable.
The food and drink services available are significant beyond the profit they bring in, because they contribute to the ‘customer experience’ and help get people back through the door again another time. I’d be keen to go back to Forest Green if the chance came up again because the food there was great. It all helps (along with the football of course) to make sure people enjoy their day out.
Comments
I can only speak for Montys...as all of its pumps had broken we were transported back to 1885 and beer being poured out of big jugs. I assume the new manager used to be at The Chiltern Open Air Museum.
my criticisms and obtuse tone have offended some here however this is getting to the crux of my frustration.At a time when we are selling players and making trust statements about cash flow shortfalls month to month and our trust board are looking to lenders and indeed bigger much more critical investment discussions ( ownership), the same directors are in my opinion also responsible for improving and getting the basic management and operations right especially in revenue streams such as food and beverage.
I'm frustrated lately that we are crying poor yet not manging the critical business areas at the same high level that GA and AH apply to our football operations. The bottom line is, well the bottom line. Revenue being missed or lost directly affects playing budget.
Generally I find other club's food in terms of choice and quality is much higher than ours. I used to buy food at every home match but now I only do if I am desperate.
Our food is shocking... end of
I'm generally happy with the beer, I'll basically drink anything.... but that might say more about me I guess !
Which is a rather telling position Mooneyman. We have 30 home matches with cups and friendlies give or take one or two either way?
Some basic industry figures tell us 40% of turnover is profit on food and beverage at a conservative estimate.
Big modern stadiums for concerts and matches get huge numbers in terms of average spend per head and no one is saying we should compete with them however let's look at a very low target of £6 spend per supporter at Adams park - a beer in Monty's or Vere Suite before kick off and something from the T bar at halftime or during the match would see a turnover of £24000 per match at home in all outlets with a net profit of £9600 per match. £288,000 per season of revenue in clear profit toward playing budget which is a large portion of the total playing budget if last years £1million budget is correct.
If most of our core supporters agree that our T bars and overall food and beverage service and value are poor, below average and have been for a number of years. Surely it stands to reason that we are missing a huge opportunity , or at best costing ourselves tens , if not hundreds of thousands of relatively core revenue? No improvement or focus in a few seasons seems extremely wasteful and neglectful given the large portion of our operating profit this represents in my opinion.
Do you know what the current average spend per head is? Otherwise your calculations are pointless without something to compare against.
I agree the food in the stadium is dreadful (I stop off at the excellent van outside the gates myself) but there are always queues at the outlets in the stadium so we must be selling something despite it being bad
Got to agree that Monty's was a complete shambles on Saturday. I rarely moan as I know the club is on a shoestring but it was comically bad:
Bar had no-one behind it for the first 5 minutes of the Sunderland game despite several people waiting and requesting bar staff. Most of the lights turned off too.
First game of the season, so months to prepare. No card machines.
Couldn't get any card machines from the Vere as they only had one.
Smelt rather peculiar. A bit like hot sick.
Steward at the front entrance couldn't even tell me if they were even intending to televise the early KO in there. They did turn it on just about in time but with no sound for the first 25 minutes despite multiple requests.
No Heineken on tap, as it was cloudy and too lively. Only overpriced bottles.
Opted for bloody Fosters for lack of other draught option, was cloudy and tasted like gone off tomato juice
Saw two people return pints of that Theakstons bitter for also being cloudy and generally tasting like arse as well.
As a result, we were in and out of there after one bottle of Heineken and a revolting Fosters, and had a better experience in the Vere.
All the beer and cider pumps in the Woodland Lounge were producing luke warm fluids. We rather shrugged it off at the time (a) because we were just delighted to be back and looking forward to a game of football and (b) because there was nothing we could do about it. We were offered and, with no chilled alternative, accepted, bottled beer that appeared to have been in the fridge for maybe a quarter of an hour.
I can’t speak for other outlets but, for the same problem to have occurred in the Caledonian (Vere) Suite, a hugely more populated area, full of much younger folk and some serious ale connoisseurs, well, that is certainly a matter for concern.
Well progress at least. At least marlow Chair has found something substantive to complain about.
But I am afraid his numbers for lost contribution are nonsensical.
Firstly he appears to assume nil revenue currently. That is plainly factually wrong.
He ignores the issues with catering at football matches which relate to timing. There will be some home and away who wish to arrive at 1pm and have a beer or two. I understand that these are reasonably well catered for inside and in the "beer tent" outside when economic to open.
The vast majority of fans though will arrive between 230 and 250. It is just about possible you may sell something to them then but probably not. Then there is a ten minute window between 345 and 355 ish. The idea that you will get anything like a £6 average spend per fan in that ten minute window would seem to me to be fanciful.
Is there any evidence to support this contention from say other football clubs?
Reality is that it is very hard to service a 5000 crowd all wanting to buy a tea in a ten minute window but then having nothing for those staff to do outside that window.
The claim of a £300k shortfall due to mismanagement (or anything like it simply doesn't stack up). Do you have anything more credible marlow?
@DevC numbers aside what do you make of it?
@FmG is right...I don't eat me dinner at the football...but poor quality or not the queue at the kiosk seemed the same as usual. So if it's bad, they are paying for it. Monty's was a pretty poor show and there seemed to be no-one doing...or able to do anything about it. I got there about 2pm and people were still buying beer eventhough it was being poured from a jug. As @micra pointed out there was little we could do about it. I don't eat and I drive so am reduced to drinking shandy...but two 50/50s and a beer easily went over your £6. And we all know fatties like chips...lukewarm or not. I'm assuming they will get their act together....not panicking yet. Did the Board sack the last manager @marlowchair ? Is it your belief they are purposefully wrecking the hospitality?
I don't understand your question Peter.
Why is Marlow making stuff up to create disharmony?
No idea.
Another thread containing bitter guesswork @marlowchair .
Could you please either put up or shut up.
I think he probably meant what do think about not being able to get a beer at the game Dev
No-one is making that up
I don’t like criticising the club. I appreciate that so many people achieve a lot on a shoestring. But…
So many opportunities were missed on Saturday. I turned up at 2:50pm and bought a coke from the Terrace kiosk, which despite coming out of the fridge was definitely a few degrees above room temperature. I would’ve bought another drink at half time had it been quickly available and cold – why not set up a few ice buckets away from the kiosk and sell properly chilled drinks out of those? Why not set up a Beechdean ice cream station in the car park pre and post-match? The club have huge opportunity to make a decent wad of money from food and drink when the weather is either very hot or very cold, so it was a real shame to see this missed when there are some simple opportunities available.
@Last_Quarter indeed...Mr Whippy seemed to be doing a roaring trade from his van in purveying lollies to red-faced football fans!
In interests of completeness, I didn't see any issues in the Vere on Saturday other than a certain amount of liveliness with a couple of the pumps.
@Last_Quarter They were selling drinks from an ice bucket against Stevenage, out of that Bisto hut in the terrace that is usually never open. It was a great idea and also alleviated the pressure on the other T bar.
Shame they didn't do it on Saturday - I too had a room temperature drink pre-match and didn't bother returning at half time.
and didn't they have someone selling stuff from a trolley last season around the Beechdean...or did I dream that?
I didn't suggest a £300L shortfall but that wouldn't support your job as henchman to Bully opposing views....
I used rough numbers that are clearly stated as guesswork taken from other industry figures a basic google search presented. I said that at £6 per head the yearly profit would be around that mark.
The point I made was that if we all agree our food and beverage options and service are poor, and as many regulars have said on here they choose NOT to spend on food and beverage at Adams Park, having "given up" over recent years, then there is a substantial missed opportunity. It isn't that hard to comprehend Dev. If our current profit per year is only £100K then so be it, if it is £300K so be it, if it is £600K so be it....that only tells us the market as it's been pointed out above that lines are still decent and we still sell the dogfood equivelent despite it's quality. The point being that if it is 40% of it's optimal performance as a revenue stream, then if it is currently profiting £100K in its current form which we all agree is poor, then optimally it will be earning the club much more in profit.
that's credible common sense Dev. Let me simplify it for you ( and I hope you are not in any position that can influence the running of our club such is your defeatist attitude toward the challenge of improving the offering and profitability of our match day food and beverage department)
Majority of supporters agree our bars and food are pants.
It turns over a decent profit yearly. I worked out a profit of around £300K at £6 spend per head but that's isn't the point, it could be £100K per year it could be £600K
So we mostly agree that even us as regular passionate supporters don't spend as much as we might due to the poor quality and operational failings of the Food and Bev.
It therefore stands to reason and common sense that if it were better , that profit would increase.
At a time when we are selling players and our trust is saying cashflow is an issue, I think even my most ardent critic might see clear to agree that it isn't an ideal situation.
We all contributed to a player transfer fund recently that saw £75K requested to help Gareth in the market. At 40% profit on turnover that equates to £6600 spend per match extra required yearly at our outlets. £1.6 per person.
If we get our act together that is easily attainable. My point is that it is an area that has been a problem for a long time and that on day one of a new season appears to have deteriorated further the burger I was served was not fit for human consumption. Are you happy with that Dev or will you and Right_In_The_Middle continue to argue against my point purely because I am the one making it?
There is no guesswork in saying the food and beverage operation is poor at our club Right in the Middle and that view is supported by a majority of gasroomers it would appear.
If the profit each year from it is only £100 but could/should be £140 are you happy with that?
That's a very long post when you could have just said you have no idea what we are making from match day food and have made up some numbers to hope to create a false impression and are now desperately rowing back.
Could match day food and drink be improved. of course. it always can. Could it make a material difference to the bottom line, my guess is not.
I’ve read these posts with interest and there is clearly an issue here. However, making complaints on social media -no matter how valid-isn’t going to lead to any improvement in the situation. Can I respectfully suggest that someone collates the many sensible suggestions and sends them to the club where they will hopefully be taken into consideration.
@marlowchair I'm not sure anyone (outside of the men in the WWFC Board car outside your house checking your Gasroom postings) is bullying you about your views...just asking for a bit of clarity or disagreeing with you. But you seem to be saying the food and beverage side of things is crap...but it turns a profit....but it could be more profit. That could be said about most things. Perhaps if it is turning a profit it is not a side the Board feels it has to focus on. That may not be a good thing but it might not be a priority at present. They might have more pressing issues to deal with. Also having told us all for a week now it was poorly run and poor quality food...why did you have a burger at all?
(As a regular at Adams Park I don't eat my meals there, so you could get Jamie Ramsey's Football Dinners in for all I care and I would not hand over my hard earned...)
>
speechless
No it isn't Wendoverman I don't think they or anyone are purposefully wrecking anything. No managers have been sacked or appointed to be fair.Things just seem to contiuously be ignored in terms of supporters complaints around the food and beverage.
I'm accused by Dev and Right in the MIddle of making things up.I don't.the vast majority of Food outlets and businesses within a radius of a few miles of Adams Park have a 5 star hygeine rating. This means " Very good". Don't take my word for it the My Wycombe council website has a search feature.
Our club has a 3 rating. We were assessed late last season as prior to May 2018 we were a 2 star rating. That is low, very low compared to the area and when seeing some of the establishments who score that low mark. Our staff worked hard towards the end of last season knowing the inspectors were coming and managed to get back to a 3 star rating but still issues were highlighted by the inspectors and still we are not at the level we were 24 months ago when we were stripped of our 4 stars and given 2 which we remained at for over 12 months.
Training,investment in people,supervision,people management,support are all needed in these industry areas to avoid long term decline in standards and compliance.
The prosecution rests M'lord....
You have a good point @marlowchair that the catering facilities could be improved.
However, you inflate the financial importance of this way beyond what is reasonable.
The food and drink services available are significant beyond the profit they bring in, because they contribute to the ‘customer experience’ and help get people back through the door again another time. I’d be keen to go back to Forest Green if the chance came up again because the food there was great. It all helps (along with the football of course) to make sure people enjoy their day out.