@peterparrotface said:
DevC it isn't the same people that were calling Muller a donkey that are now saying he looks good.
Indeed. And, to put all the encouraging comments into perspective, the AFC match was surprisingly fiercely contested. Sadly, for them, their joint top scorer last season (Lyle Taylor) had to go off injured late in the game. Luke O'nien took a hell of a battening but managed to finish the game.
I don't really enjoy reading lengthy "realistic" correctives from someone who seems remote, physically and spiritually, from the club we love. It's all about dreams and enjoying the minutiae of supporting the club, good and bad.
Cold logic has its place but is best served in small doses.
I hope that given time to get used to Lg2 style of play and have a full pre-season he may well come good. Who knows. I do also remember how badly reuben Reid exposed both of our centre backs in the spring - big strong lg2 hardened cf. no doubt though they will have learned from that.
Depressing how too many fans seem to need to jump on the back of a player as soon as he has a bad game or two. I suppose that will never change. I wonder who this years victim (s) will be.
@DevC A quick glance at the Facebook page suggests Paul Hayes will be this year's scapegoat.
Even in the drubbing at Exeter, I thought Müller actually started reasonably well. A couple of slips but no disasters and showed glimpses of being a good player. I think it's worth noting (albeit this is just my opinion) that his performance dramatically deteriorated in the second half, which might suggest he was still struggling for fitness at the time. It was when the pacey Ollie Watkins came on and started running at the backline at will (lack of cover from our midfield allowing him to do so) that the horror show really began.
@DevC I don't think anyone on here has called Müller a donkey. From his appearances to date he clearly is better on the ball than Pierre, but he falls well behind Pierre in terms of physicality and pace.
Müller reminds me of McGinn in that they are both good on the ball but not really suited to the hurly burley of the second division. I agree with Glenactico that he could be better utilzed as a defensive midfielder.
I liked what I saw of him on the ball...obviously mistakes are amplified often by the usual naysayers, but I thought MM had potential. It's sometimes hard to be a young/new player in League Two...
The Exeter game was back in January, Dev - depths of winter in this neck of the woods. It was three days after the Herculean effort at White Hart Lane when knackerdom was setting in with a vengeance. And spirits weren't unduly high as the lads made the long trek Devon.
It was only the fourth time Müller and De Havilland had partnered each other. Over the season as a whole, they played together 8 times. There were wins at Millwall, Mansfield and Grimsby and draws at Blackpool and Accrington. Of the three defeats, one was 1-0 at home to a rampant Notts County. Not too bad a record.
@DevC Whilst there is no doubt that AP & JB were excellent players, and probably better individually than their current replacements (although too early to judge in El-Abd's case). it doesn't necessarily mean that we will be weaker in defence. As noted elsewhere, a good organiser/leader could be exactly what we need and whereas some of JB's saves and aerial command undoubtedly helped us gain points, there were times when his inexperience (and possibly a little bit of loss of confidence at one stage) may have helped us lose a few (although I'd certainly put him in the 'credit' file for the season).
Brown and El Abd both look good, solid players at this level but Pierre and Blackman were exceptional for League 2. In all likelihood replacing two players with weaker ones weakens the team - although it is vaguely possible in certain circumstances that it doesn't.
I think the asset we'll miss most from Pierre is his pace.
It is always lovely to see DevC give his expert opinion. Amazing really when he doesn't attend any games. Just imagine the level of expertise he could bestow upon us if he actually saw the players in action.
I have to admit often it seems I have been watching a different game to quite a few posters on the Gasroom. I like someone to explain to me what I have actually seen rather than what I thought I had seen. Educational.
Dev does it again, Muller a "donkey?", what an incredible comment, one no-one ever has said.
While we had a super long wait to see if the hype was anywhere near accurate for Muller, and it's still massively to be even semi proven, he was always a ball player with a bit of culture, the very opposite of a donkey.
It's what @Glenactico says about Pierre that has me concerned about Muller.
Premier league, by all means you can have one lah di dah John Stones-esque player, but in league 2 you need 2 strong guys.
We've a long history of very dominant aerial combos
Pierre will be a huge loss. Height, strength and pace as a combo beyond any centre back I think we've had.
Mawson had more ball playing ability of course, but less excellent mix of the above.
Stewart is a good mix of the three, with some more ball ability, but not quite as strong physically.
The loss of Pierre's pace and ability to recover from situations (sometimes self-inflicted) are the qualities that may be missed but we move on and there will be compensating qualities in the new pairings - eg Adam El-Abd's leadership and organisational skills and vast experience.
Comments
Indeed. And, to put all the encouraging comments into perspective, the AFC match was surprisingly fiercely contested. Sadly, for them, their joint top scorer last season (Lyle Taylor) had to go off injured late in the game. Luke O'nien took a hell of a battening but managed to finish the game.
I don't really enjoy reading lengthy "realistic" correctives from someone who seems remote, physically and spiritually, from the club we love. It's all about dreams and enjoying the minutiae of supporting the club, good and bad.
Cold logic has its place but is best served in small doses.
If that is the case, I stand corrected, peter.
I hope that given time to get used to Lg2 style of play and have a full pre-season he may well come good. Who knows. I do also remember how badly reuben Reid exposed both of our centre backs in the spring - big strong lg2 hardened cf. no doubt though they will have learned from that.
Depressing how too many fans seem to need to jump on the back of a player as soon as he has a bad game or two. I suppose that will never change. I wonder who this years victim (s) will be.
@DevC A quick glance at the Facebook page suggests Paul Hayes will be this year's scapegoat.
Even in the drubbing at Exeter, I thought Müller actually started reasonably well. A couple of slips but no disasters and showed glimpses of being a good player. I think it's worth noting (albeit this is just my opinion) that his performance dramatically deteriorated in the second half, which might suggest he was still struggling for fitness at the time. It was when the pacey Ollie Watkins came on and started running at the backline at will (lack of cover from our midfield allowing him to do so) that the horror show really began.
@DevC I don't think anyone on here has called Müller a donkey. From his appearances to date he clearly is better on the ball than Pierre, but he falls well behind Pierre in terms of physicality and pace.
Müller reminds me of McGinn in that they are both good on the ball but not really suited to the hurly burley of the second division. I agree with Glenactico that he could be better utilzed as a defensive midfielder.
I liked what I saw of him on the ball...obviously mistakes are amplified often by the usual naysayers, but I thought MM had potential. It's sometimes hard to be a young/new player in League Two...
The Exeter game was back in January, Dev - depths of winter in this neck of the woods. It was three days after the Herculean effort at White Hart Lane when knackerdom was setting in with a vengeance. And spirits weren't unduly high as the lads made the long trek Devon.
It was only the fourth time Müller and De Havilland had partnered each other. Over the season as a whole, they played together 8 times. There were wins at Millwall, Mansfield and Grimsby and draws at Blackpool and Accrington. Of the three defeats, one was 1-0 at home to a rampant Notts County. Not too bad a record.
@DevC Whilst there is no doubt that AP & JB were excellent players, and probably better individually than their current replacements (although too early to judge in El-Abd's case). it doesn't necessarily mean that we will be weaker in defence. As noted elsewhere, a good organiser/leader could be exactly what we need and whereas some of JB's saves and aerial command undoubtedly helped us gain points, there were times when his inexperience (and possibly a little bit of loss of confidence at one stage) may have helped us lose a few (although I'd certainly put him in the 'credit' file for the season).
We shall see...
Brown and El Abd both look good, solid players at this level but Pierre and Blackman were exceptional for League 2. In all likelihood replacing two players with weaker ones weakens the team - although it is vaguely possible in certain circumstances that it doesn't.
I think the asset we'll miss most from Pierre is his pace.
It is always lovely to see DevC give his expert opinion. Amazing really when he doesn't attend any games. Just imagine the level of expertise he could bestow upon us if he actually saw the players in action.
I think we all like it when he appears after a particularly excruciatingly awful game he hasn't seen to tell us we shouldn't expect any better
@eric_plant Oh I find his comments help. It usually reminds me to go and retrieve my season ticket from wherever I've thrown it in disgust
I have to admit often it seems I have been watching a different game to quite a few posters on the Gasroom. I like someone to explain to me what I have actually seen rather than what I thought I had seen. Educational.
I find that I never see any match the same way as everyone else does.
Turn around
Every now and then I get a little bit lonely
"Depressing how too many fans seem to need to jump on the back of gasroom posters as soon as they express an opinion or two that I don't agree with"
Oscar Wilde?
Dev does it again, Muller a "donkey?", what an incredible comment, one no-one ever has said.
While we had a super long wait to see if the hype was anywhere near accurate for Muller, and it's still massively to be even semi proven, he was always a ball player with a bit of culture, the very opposite of a donkey.
It's what @Glenactico says about Pierre that has me concerned about Muller.
Premier league, by all means you can have one lah di dah John Stones-esque player, but in league 2 you need 2 strong guys.
We've a long history of very dominant aerial combos
Evans-Crossley
Bates-McCarthy
Williamson-Johnson
Mawson-Pierre
Pierre-Stewart
Pierre will be a huge loss. Height, strength and pace as a combo beyond any centre back I think we've had.
Mawson had more ball playing ability of course, but less excellent mix of the above.
Stewart is a good mix of the three, with some more ball ability, but not quite as strong physically.
The loss of Pierre's pace and ability to recover from situations (sometimes self-inflicted) are the qualities that may be missed but we move on and there will be compensating qualities in the new pairings - eg Adam El-Abd's leadership and organisational skills and vast experience.
Not to mention his physical strength.
https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2017/july/nathan-tyson-on-signing-for-wycombe/
Oh good work, @Chris !