Was certainly a great effort, Saunders and Weston were excellent and the ancient midfield of Bloomfield and Bean put in good perfromances. Sido class alongside AP even if he hates playing there! Bayo was Bayo again to great effect and Kashket showed how we miss him. A few more performances like that at home and we would not have been waiting on other people scoring goals. Good game and bodes well for next year.
Am I the only one who worried every time Jombati got touch tight against their centre forward? I thought he looked uneasy and got booked for a challenge he made a few times. I'm not saying he was awful . He did ok but I wouldn't be happy having him as first choice centre back.
Didn't worry me RITM, not when we had AP with his pace and power to tidy up any mess that may have been made. Might worry me next season though should AP depart for new pastures?
@EwanHoosaami said:
Didn't worry me RITM, not when we had AP with his pace and power to tidy up any mess that may have been made. Might worry me next season though should AP depart for new pastures?
Why? Anthony S showed more power and pace on the second half of the season than Aron P.
Anthony Stewart wasn't playing in the game though so genuinely don't understand your response? AP had enough power & pace to cover Sido in the very rare event that Sido got caught out or turned. The fact that AS offered more of both this season appears to me to be irrelevant in the context of your original post. I could of course be missing something?
I think the argument was that Stewart was more than capable of offering the same support playing alongside Sido as Aaron Pierre.
I still can't equate the praise of Sido against the panning of WDH. I don't actually see that much difference between the two. If WDH had made the two air kicks Sido made along side the foul that led to a great late chance he would have been dismissed as useless by the haters. I suppose in the world of either great or useless Sido has been slightly better so that makes him great and WDH useless. Wish the world was as simple as some of the drones.
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
I think the argument was that Stewart was more than capable of offering the same support playing alongside Sido as Aaron Pierre.
I still can't equate the praise of Sido against the panning of WDH. I don't actually see that much difference between the two. If WDH had made the two air kicks Sido made along side the foul that led to a great late chance he would have been dismissed as useless by the haters. I suppose in the world of either great or useless Sido has been slightly better so that makes him great and WDH useless. Wish the world was as simple as some of the drones.
If you can't see the gulf between Sido and WDH then you're the simpleton not "the drones".
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
I think the argument was that Stewart was more than capable of offering the same support playing alongside Sido as Aaron Pierre.
Ah, see it now, thought I was.missing the obvious.
"Man fridge.syndrome "!
@Malone Kind of proves my point though. It can't just be a post you disagree with. It has to be 'your worst post for a long time'. I don't mind you disagreeing with my opinion. No need to abuse though.
For me a Sido air kick cost us a goal against Morecambe and nearly cost us a goal on Saturday. That's not saying he's rubbish but is just an example of why I don't think he's become Alfie Mawson overnight.
For what it's worth, I don't think Sido is by any means the finished article as a centre half - he needs to learn which challenges to go for and ones where he has no chance of winning the ball and will either get turned or give away a free kick.
That said, he is potentially very good indeed, and has the ability to bring the ball out of defence and distribute like very few others at this level. I'd like to see where he can be come the start of next season with a decent pre-season being coached on the training ground and learning from the other centre halves at the club.
@Right_in_the_Middle , i believe that's what they'd call a classic strawman argument.
You're using your inexplicable view that Sido isn't better than WDH, by arguing that he's not Mawson.
Noone was saying he's a superstar, but he's a lot lot better than a guy who is destined for the Conference south sooner rather than later i'd suggest.
When he's in position at CB he's not bad, certainly has potential, but he gets out of position way too easily. Sometimes it's because he's gone on a run, when we have possession and his absence can be covered without too much difficulty. But too often he's pulled out wide (where I guess he feels more comfortable) leaving a gap in the middle when we're defending. Maybe that can be trained out of him, he seems a bright lad and he's certainly one of our more entertaining players to watch. But otherwise, oppositions will get wise to that if he's a regular starter there.
@Malone Help me understand what you are trying to say. I think I have said I think Sido has been better than WDH over a similar small sample size of games. I just don't see the vast gulf that you seem to see by saying 'he's a lot lot better'. For me that is quite simply not the case and I object to a Wycombe supporter abusing a Wycombe player like you have in your last post.
I agree with Eric about Sido's ability and potential. I just don't see a finished article at the moment and I do worry about him as a centre half at the moment. His faults can be coached out of him. So can WDH's.
I think @eric_plant 's point about Sido getting "turned" quite easily is spot on. He seems to lack patience and gets very close to his man and either tries to win the ball quickly by using the telescopic leg trick (which often works to be fair), or tries to wrestle for supremacy.That is when he can, and often does, get turned and/or gives away daft free kicks. Worse still is his abysmal record, this season, of giving away stupid penalties.
Having said that I like him very much at CB. I just think he needs to develop a bit of a wiser old head and then he'd be absolutely brilliant. As Eric says - he has the ability to bring the ball out (like Alfie) and that is indeed rare at L2 level.
Reading through the weekend posts, I find myself in an odd position
1) I agree with RitM. While I am in no position to judge players attributes, I very much doubt Sido is quite as good at CB as he is being painted as - I don't think he deserves the "new Beckenbauer" status quite yet. Equally while WDH may have had a bad game or two, I very much doubt he has earned the "new Foran" status he seems to have been awarded. Things are rarely black or white, as seems to be the fashion, as RitM says usually they are shades of grey
2) I also sympathise with Tattler on the other thread. While he can undoubtedly be hypocritical (see visit to hooters), his post seemed pretty accurate to me. More women enjoy going shopping than going to football, that seems pretty factual. Men are more likely than women to prefer football to shopping - factual too. That of course doesn't mean that all men prefer football or all women prefer shopping, but then he didn't say that.
I have wrestled with my conscience the last couple of hours, reread the threads to work out what I have missed but no, it is true, I agree with RiTM and Mr Tattler. Its out there, deal with it.
I feel some posters have not taken into account the relative ages of Sido and WDH. The first is 29 and the latter 22. Consequently, on current abilities, WDH has potentially a better chance of improvement than Sido.
I think to write off a player as never being good enough to play league football at 22 is rather stupid. It's interesting to note that Sido didn't play in the football league until he was 23.
I'd hate to have Sido at centre back if we were facing Akinfenwa. I think his lack of experience in (and reported dislike of) the position might be taken advantage of by the kind of physical seasoned campaigner often found up front in a League 2 teams. He can also get wound up fairly easily.
Unless he wants to commit to playing what is a specialist position I'd be looking for alternatives as first choice centre back. He'd remain very useful cover for every position at the back.
@Right_in_the_Middle if he committed to that being his first choice position I'd be happy but not delighted with him there, given a strong calm player like Stewart alongside him. Clearly a step down from Pierre, but he has qualities that could lead the him developing into an excellent centre back. He's not there yet, but if it's an area where he wants to develop I think he could be.
You won't change Sido or "coach out" the idiosyncrasies. He's too old, stubborn and eccentric for that. For that reason, GA may be reluctant to regard him as first and foremost a central defender next season. But with Harriman seemingly a fixture at right back, Sido may well spend a lot of time on the bench and that would be a shame (as it was for quite some time recently) because he is such a great crowd pleaser.
People seem to be stretching the "Sido is a lot better than WDH" fairly well held belief on here, into saying he's going to be a star there.
I don't recall anyone saying that. We're simply saying he's a lot better than WDH
If the option next year is Sido or WDH/Muller i'd take the former. For one thing it feels an absolute waste benching him, whereas the other 2 feels no such waste
You are fully focused on trashing two young players making their way in the game at the club you support. No attempt to do this is too low and you don't really give a toss what you say as your view is the absolute fact.
I certainly would like to see both young players get a chance to impress in pre-season and then an assessment be made which of the two (or both) would more benefit by playing first team football elsewhere on loan and which by acting as back-up at WWFC. Pretty sure whoever is backup will get to play a good few games.
Extremely unlikely we will go into new season with just MH, AS, SJ,JJ and loanee as defenders. Extremely unlikely also that we will be able to afford experienced pros in the back-up roles or loanees not expected to start.
@Right_in_the_Middle , i know you like a little forum wrestle and like to embrace hyperbole and an emotional style of posting, but no, i think that's a bit too strong a take. I think Muller could be quite decent given time, but you have to start with a stronger combination.
I wouldn't dream of booing WDH or doing anything but support him at the game itself. This is merely chat on an internet forum. Take out preferring one player to another, saying who is quality and should be higher, and who...isn't in your own opinion, is surely half the life of a fan after all.
But I'm trying to think whether we've had a centre back who at the start looked pretty ropey and came through to become a mainstay.
Even youngsters like Hause, Stewart and Dunne when he played there looked fairly solid from the off.
I suppose a couple of centre backs in relegation seasons looked a bit poor and were then better in the league below, but that's a bit different
Comments
Was certainly a great effort, Saunders and Weston were excellent and the ancient midfield of Bloomfield and Bean put in good perfromances. Sido class alongside AP even if he hates playing there! Bayo was Bayo again to great effect and Kashket showed how we miss him. A few more performances like that at home and we would not have been waiting on other people scoring goals. Good game and bodes well for next year.
Am I the only one who worried every time Jombati got touch tight against their centre forward? I thought he looked uneasy and got booked for a challenge he made a few times. I'm not saying he was awful . He did ok but I wouldn't be happy having him as first choice centre back.
Didn't worry me RITM, not when we had AP with his pace and power to tidy up any mess that may have been made. Might worry me next season though should AP depart for new pastures?
Why? Anthony S showed more power and pace on the second half of the season than Aron P.
Bet you wouldn't say that if Pierre was standing in front of you!
Anthony Stewart wasn't playing in the game though so genuinely don't understand your response? AP had enough power & pace to cover Sido in the very rare event that Sido got caught out or turned. The fact that AS offered more of both this season appears to me to be irrelevant in the context of your original post. I could of course be missing something?
I think the argument was that Stewart was more than capable of offering the same support playing alongside Sido as Aaron Pierre.
I still can't equate the praise of Sido against the panning of WDH. I don't actually see that much difference between the two. If WDH had made the two air kicks Sido made along side the foul that led to a great late chance he would have been dismissed as useless by the haters. I suppose in the world of either great or useless Sido has been slightly better so that makes him great and WDH useless. Wish the world was as simple as some of the drones.
If you can't see the gulf between Sido and WDH then you're the simpleton not "the drones".
Sido and Will are worlds apart.
Ah, see it now, thought I was.missing the obvious.
"Man fridge.syndrome "!
@Right_in_the_Middle , there's a lot of contenders, but that's got to be your worst post for a long time.
@Malone Kind of proves my point though. It can't just be a post you disagree with. It has to be 'your worst post for a long time'. I don't mind you disagreeing with my opinion. No need to abuse though.
For me a Sido air kick cost us a goal against Morecambe and nearly cost us a goal on Saturday. That's not saying he's rubbish but is just an example of why I don't think he's become Alfie Mawson overnight.
For what it's worth, I don't think Sido is by any means the finished article as a centre half - he needs to learn which challenges to go for and ones where he has no chance of winning the ball and will either get turned or give away a free kick.
That said, he is potentially very good indeed, and has the ability to bring the ball out of defence and distribute like very few others at this level. I'd like to see where he can be come the start of next season with a decent pre-season being coached on the training ground and learning from the other centre halves at the club.
@Right_in_the_Middle , i believe that's what they'd call a classic strawman argument.
You're using your inexplicable view that Sido isn't better than WDH, by arguing that he's not Mawson.
Noone was saying he's a superstar, but he's a lot lot better than a guy who is destined for the Conference south sooner rather than later i'd suggest.
When he's in position at CB he's not bad, certainly has potential, but he gets out of position way too easily. Sometimes it's because he's gone on a run, when we have possession and his absence can be covered without too much difficulty. But too often he's pulled out wide (where I guess he feels more comfortable) leaving a gap in the middle when we're defending. Maybe that can be trained out of him, he seems a bright lad and he's certainly one of our more entertaining players to watch. But otherwise, oppositions will get wise to that if he's a regular starter there.
@Malone Help me understand what you are trying to say. I think I have said I think Sido has been better than WDH over a similar small sample size of games. I just don't see the vast gulf that you seem to see by saying 'he's a lot lot better'. For me that is quite simply not the case and I object to a Wycombe supporter abusing a Wycombe player like you have in your last post.
I agree with Eric about Sido's ability and potential. I just don't see a finished article at the moment and I do worry about him as a centre half at the moment. His faults can be coached out of him. So can WDH's.
I think @eric_plant 's point about Sido getting "turned" quite easily is spot on. He seems to lack patience and gets very close to his man and either tries to win the ball quickly by using the telescopic leg trick (which often works to be fair), or tries to wrestle for supremacy.That is when he can, and often does, get turned and/or gives away daft free kicks. Worse still is his abysmal record, this season, of giving away stupid penalties.
Having said that I like him very much at CB. I just think he needs to develop a bit of a wiser old head and then he'd be absolutely brilliant. As Eric says - he has the ability to bring the ball out (like Alfie) and that is indeed rare at L2 level.
Sido is more experienced I think...and a better footballer but that does not mean I do not think WDH and muller have potential to improve.
Reading through the weekend posts, I find myself in an odd position
1) I agree with RitM. While I am in no position to judge players attributes, I very much doubt Sido is quite as good at CB as he is being painted as - I don't think he deserves the "new Beckenbauer" status quite yet. Equally while WDH may have had a bad game or two, I very much doubt he has earned the "new Foran" status he seems to have been awarded. Things are rarely black or white, as seems to be the fashion, as RitM says usually they are shades of grey
2) I also sympathise with Tattler on the other thread. While he can undoubtedly be hypocritical (see visit to hooters), his post seemed pretty accurate to me. More women enjoy going shopping than going to football, that seems pretty factual. Men are more likely than women to prefer football to shopping - factual too. That of course doesn't mean that all men prefer football or all women prefer shopping, but then he didn't say that.
I have wrestled with my conscience the last couple of hours, reread the threads to work out what I have missed but no, it is true, I agree with RiTM and Mr Tattler. Its out there, deal with it.
I feel some posters have not taken into account the relative ages of Sido and WDH. The first is 29 and the latter 22. Consequently, on current abilities, WDH has potentially a better chance of improvement than Sido.
I think to write off a player as never being good enough to play league football at 22 is rather stupid. It's interesting to note that Sido didn't play in the football league until he was 23.
I'd hate to have Sido at centre back if we were facing Akinfenwa. I think his lack of experience in (and reported dislike of) the position might be taken advantage of by the kind of physical seasoned campaigner often found up front in a League 2 teams. He can also get wound up fairly easily.
Unless he wants to commit to playing what is a specialist position I'd be looking for alternatives as first choice centre back. He'd remain very useful cover for every position at the back.
@Chris So if Sido says he wants to be considered as a centre back next season you wouldn't be looking for alternatives?
@Vital Cheers for another season of reporting, well done all involved.
@Right_in_the_Middle if he committed to that being his first choice position I'd be happy but not delighted with him there, given a strong calm player like Stewart alongside him. Clearly a step down from Pierre, but he has qualities that could lead the him developing into an excellent centre back. He's not there yet, but if it's an area where he wants to develop I think he could be.
And as regards looking for alternatives - Ainsworth should be looking for alternatives for every position, but it's a matter of priorities.
If Jombati wants to make centre back his position (my hunch is he doesn't) then it changes the urgency of the need.
You won't change Sido or "coach out" the idiosyncrasies. He's too old, stubborn and eccentric for that. For that reason, GA may be reluctant to regard him as first and foremost a central defender next season. But with Harriman seemingly a fixture at right back, Sido may well spend a lot of time on the bench and that would be a shame (as it was for quite some time recently) because he is such a great crowd pleaser.
People seem to be stretching the "Sido is a lot better than WDH" fairly well held belief on here, into saying he's going to be a star there.
I don't recall anyone saying that. We're simply saying he's a lot better than WDH
If the option next year is Sido or WDH/Muller i'd take the former. For one thing it feels an absolute waste benching him, whereas the other 2 feels no such waste
I fully follow your point now @Malone . Thanks
You are fully focused on trashing two young players making their way in the game at the club you support. No attempt to do this is too low and you don't really give a toss what you say as your view is the absolute fact.
Would that sum it up?
I certainly would like to see both young players get a chance to impress in pre-season and then an assessment be made which of the two (or both) would more benefit by playing first team football elsewhere on loan and which by acting as back-up at WWFC. Pretty sure whoever is backup will get to play a good few games.
Extremely unlikely we will go into new season with just MH, AS, SJ,JJ and loanee as defenders. Extremely unlikely also that we will be able to afford experienced pros in the back-up roles or loanees not expected to start.
@Right_in_the_Middle , i know you like a little forum wrestle and like to embrace hyperbole and an emotional style of posting, but no, i think that's a bit too strong a take. I think Muller could be quite decent given time, but you have to start with a stronger combination.
I wouldn't dream of booing WDH or doing anything but support him at the game itself. This is merely chat on an internet forum. Take out preferring one player to another, saying who is quality and should be higher, and who...isn't in your own opinion, is surely half the life of a fan after all.
But I'm trying to think whether we've had a centre back who at the start looked pretty ropey and came through to become a mainstay.
Even youngsters like Hause, Stewart and Dunne when he played there looked fairly solid from the off.
I suppose a couple of centre backs in relegation seasons looked a bit poor and were then better in the league below, but that's a bit different