I prefer centre backs to have pace and power rather than great passing ability. I've not seen enough of Muller to decide but so far I worry about his pace. One Paul Hayes comment seems to have been lept on by many in regards to Max.
At present our first choice centre halves are massively ahead of the reserves but maybe that is down to game time.
Not massively ahead. If that was the case, the recent upturn in results would surely not have occurred. I'll also do the broken record bit and refer to the 3-1 win against Millwall with Max and Will (MaxWill versus Millwall) propping up the defence.
At least slating Muller and WDH will give Blackman and Bloomfield and Hayes and Pierre and Jombati and Gape and Bean a week or two off............ They are fourth division players guys, they all have their weaknesses.
Pierre and Stewart are massively ahead of Muller and De Hav @micra
Thing is you have focused on it as a negative whereas I was actually thinking just how good Pierre and Stewart are at our level and they are a hard act to follow.
I like both the others too but they have a tough act to follow. Game time will help that and I have already spent some time in recent weeks defending De Hav from critisism from the Drones.
I like central defenders who defend. Those who can do more than that like Mawson and Williamson are fantastic to see but shouldn't really be playing at our level.
At the end of the day very few teams are likely to have 4 centre backs of equal standard. If you do, they are likely to be bang average but if they are all of a Pierre standard then two of them are going to be unhappy not playing and other clubs will come in for them.
We at the moment are in an ideal position in that Pierre and Stewart are probably the best pairing in the division and we have adequate cover in Muller and DeHaviland.
@DevC said:
Will be interesting to note whether Stewart looks as good next season assuming he stays and Pierre goes. May be the making of him, I suppose.
He's been on a par with Pierre for much of the season, if anything more cultured, and has been fulfilling the clear promise that we have observed for three or four seasons. I think we have already seen the making of him.
Although AP is a far better footballer than he gets credit for, in my opinion, Stewart looks more comfortable with the ball at his feet. I think Muller looks a decent prospect given he is returning from an injury and has had little game time. Not sure about De Hav but again, I think it's early days.
The "recent upturn in results" you refer to being a massive 2 game streak of one draw and one win?
And your logic of using ONE game v Millwall in a cup most teams didn't give a rat's ass about.
How do either of those tiny sample of examples in any way prove Muller and WDH aren't a big step down from Pierre and Stewart?
I'm not doubting your difficulty in understanding the logic; I am simply following my usual approach of accentuating the positive. The fact is we had a dreadful run of five defeats with permutations of Pierre, Stewart and De Havilland and we have defended just as well in the 3 games since then (albeit losing to Crawley to a goal from a controversial corner and a "worldie" free kick.). I don't accept that Pierre and Stewart are massively superior, much as I admire them both on and off the pitch.
When you have Pierre and Stewart, you have two players who are very quick, exceptionally good in the air, and very strong.
Leaving Muller aside, as a lot of us will only have seen him once or twice, WDH isn't as quick, not nearly as good in the air, and nowhere near as strong.
I don't even see much raw material in him, which was obvious in the other 2 immediately.
It's a fairly sobering thought, as we've been so spoilt for centre backs over the last decade.
If we did lose Stewart as well as Pierre, we have a real mission in that area in the summer.
Not for money, but the idea that no one will come in for either if fully fit, when free (over 24) is pretty optimistic.
Stewart at least has last time's experience to think about, and the injury if more serious than the club are letting on won't help either.
But Pierre? Surely done very soon after the season ends.
Those not yet convinced about WDH's ability to play a pass should observe him closely during the warm-up when he practises his distribution with his centre back partner.
@micra said:
As they used to say Malone, it's being so cheerful that keeps you happy!
I really am getting senile. The catch phrase of Mona Lott, the depressed laundrywoman in the early post-war radio programme ITMA) was "It's being so cheerful as keeps me going". The fact that I was walking the dog when I wrote that is no excuse.
Comments
I prefer centre backs to have pace and power rather than great passing ability. I've not seen enough of Muller to decide but so far I worry about his pace. One Paul Hayes comment seems to have been lept on by many in regards to Max.
At present our first choice centre halves are massively ahead of the reserves but maybe that is down to game time.
Not massively ahead. If that was the case, the recent upturn in results would surely not have occurred. I'll also do the broken record bit and refer to the 3-1 win against Millwall with Max and Will (MaxWill versus Millwall) propping up the defence.
At least slating Muller and WDH will give Blackman and Bloomfield and Hayes and Pierre and Jombati and Gape and Bean a week or two off............ They are fourth division players guys, they all have their weaknesses.
I agree with @Right_in_the_Middle that Stewart and Pierre are clearly a class above WDH and Muller.
Because they are great, not because WDH and Muller are bad.
Pierre and Stewart are massively ahead of Muller and De Hav @micra
Thing is you have focused on it as a negative whereas I was actually thinking just how good Pierre and Stewart are at our level and they are a hard act to follow.
I like both the others too but they have a tough act to follow. Game time will help that and I have already spent some time in recent weeks defending De Hav from critisism from the Drones.
I like central defenders who defend. Those who can do more than that like Mawson and Williamson are fantastic to see but shouldn't really be playing at our level.
Indeed @Right_in_the_Middle to have two decent and two excellent League Two full backs is not too bad.
Centre-backs I meant of course.
@micra , barely understandable logic there.
The "recent upturn in results" you refer to being a massive 2 game streak of one draw and one win?
And your logic of using ONE game v Millwall in a cup most teams didn't give a rat's ass about.
How do either of those tiny sample of examples in any way prove Muller and WDH aren't a big step down from Pierre and Stewart?
At the end of the day very few teams are likely to have 4 centre backs of equal standard. If you do, they are likely to be bang average but if they are all of a Pierre standard then two of them are going to be unhappy not playing and other clubs will come in for them.
We at the moment are in an ideal position in that Pierre and Stewart are probably the best pairing in the division and we have adequate cover in Muller and DeHaviland.
Will be interesting to note whether Stewart looks as good next season assuming he stays and Pierre goes. May be the making of him, I suppose.
He's been on a par with Pierre for much of the season, if anything more cultured, and has been fulfilling the clear promise that we have observed for three or four seasons. I think we have already seen the making of him.
Although AP is a far better footballer than he gets credit for, in my opinion, Stewart looks more comfortable with the ball at his feet. I think Muller looks a decent prospect given he is returning from an injury and has had little game time. Not sure about De Hav but again, I think it's early days.
I'm not doubting your difficulty in understanding the logic; I am simply following my usual approach of accentuating the positive. The fact is we had a dreadful run of five defeats with permutations of Pierre, Stewart and De Havilland and we have defended just as well in the 3 games since then (albeit losing to Crawley to a goal from a controversial corner and a "worldie" free kick.). I don't accept that Pierre and Stewart are massively superior, much as I admire them both on and off the pitch.
When you have Pierre and Stewart, you have two players who are very quick, exceptionally good in the air, and very strong.
Leaving Muller aside, as a lot of us will only have seen him once or twice, WDH isn't as quick, not nearly as good in the air, and nowhere near as strong.
I don't even see much raw material in him, which was obvious in the other 2 immediately.
It's a fairly sobering thought, as we've been so spoilt for centre backs over the last decade.
If we did lose Stewart as well as Pierre, we have a real mission in that area in the summer.
As they used to say Malone, it's being so cheerful that keeps you happy!
As far as I can tell...despite rumours all year...no-one has come in for Pierre or Stewart yet have they?
Not for money, but the idea that no one will come in for either if fully fit, when free (over 24) is pretty optimistic.
Stewart at least has last time's experience to think about, and the injury if more serious than the club are letting on won't help either.
But Pierre? Surely done very soon after the season ends.
Those not yet convinced about WDH's ability to play a pass should observe him closely during the warm-up when he practises his distribution with his centre back partner.
I really am getting senile. The catch phrase of Mona Lott, the depressed laundrywoman in the early post-war radio programme ITMA) was "It's being so cheerful as keeps me going". The fact that I was walking the dog when I wrote that is no excuse.