Ched Evans
In one of the most enlightened posts for many a moon, bill stickers wrote this on "most admired " opposition player thread just this morning in respect of Luke McCormick. "Everyone deserves a second chance. He served his time, and has come out the other side a model professional now captaining the side, all the while taking dog's abuse from self-righteous morons up and down the country." He was spot on.
Ironic then that a few hours later, we are drawn against another controversial figure, Ched Evans. Now I cant bring myself to like the man, but all should recognise that not only has Evans done his time and hence earned the right to rebuild his life but even more significantly it has now been legally established that he was an innocent man all along and hence that society (which means all of us) took two and half years of his life away unfairly. Now I am not suggesting that the man deserves a cheer or even any applause at our cup game, his morals were reprehensible, but I would hope that all WWFC supporters should refrain from abusing him and instead shuffle embarrassedly as we reflect on the injustice done to this man in our name.
Comments
Dreadful stuff as usual
Why?
It's nauseatingly condescending
"shuffle embarrassedly" - what does that actually mean?
So in substance you agree but are just picking on tone?
I disagree with that by the way but can live with that.
@DevC thanks for telling me what my own personal feelings and actions should be. Of course I will comply
You could probably do with reading up on some facts. Here, try this: https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/10/14/10-myths-busted-about-the-ched-evans-case/
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this case, Ched Evans has served his time drcongo. He is therefore entitled to restart his life.
Which, unless I'm much mistaken, he already has.
I'm not disputing that @mooneyman, I'm disputing this gross misrepresentation of the law...
And this, which I think is probably lifted from a Hallmark "Sorry you've been banged up" greetings card...
Sorry Dr Congo , you have misunderstood what has happened here.
Evans legally is as innocent of the crime he was accused of as you, me or Mickey Mouse. His case was not some kind of score draw, there is no doctrine of no smoke without fire. Legally it has now been established that he was always innocent and hence our locking him up for 30 months represents a miscarriage of justice.
We may not like him, we may be appalled at his morals. But there is no law against having a threesome or against cheating on his girlfriend. Society has wronged him.
It's an uncomfortable fact, but a fact nonetheless. I hope our Neanderthals don't compound this wrong by abusing him
@DevC I am not sure why you bother. It is clear the bores on here hate you and no matter what you say they will find something to attack you with.
I think we've had this discussion before. His guilt or innocence is a fact outside of the justice system, and the truth of which we will never know.
The prosecution were not able to successfully prove to the jury that he was guilty beyond reasonable doubt. We do know that it can be very difficult to prove rape. None of this means he is in truth any more guilty or innocent than he was at the various stages of the criminal proceedings.
The justice system is the best process we have for making decisions on how to deal with people accused of crimes.
The discussion has probably been had before. It is more pertinent now as in a couple of weeks, he will be playing against us.
The convention has always been that we accept the verdict of the jury as correct. As such he is as innocent as you me or the Archbishop of Canterbury. it would set a very dangerous precedent if we move down the road of regarding human beings found not guilty as probably guilty- we just haven't proven it. Not for the first time, the Scottish system which contains three possible verdicts - including a not proven one - is probably the better system. We do not have that in our jurisdiction.
Evans has the right to be regarded as an innocent man unblemished in the eyes of the law. Because of that he has the right to feel very aggrieved to have been locked up for an extended period for a crime he didn't commit.
Not like @DevC to rehash an old argument and bring it back on repeat.
I don't like being told to refrain from abusing a footballer at a football match. Ched Evans has been worthy of abuse long before this court case and will be long after.
All the rest of the argument has been done to death already. My views are searchable if required I'm sure.
The previous time we had this conversation was after the initial verdict and I held he same view then. The justice system does what it does, but it can't tell us the truth of things.
It isn't at all dangerous for me to have my opinion about whether someone is innocent or guilty - I agree it would be if I were in a position of power.
We do have to accept the reality however that no legal process can be 100% reliable as you said yourself at the time.
Of course it can't.
But it is a vital principle of British Justice that a man found Not Guilty is entitled to leave court without a stain on his character and not be regarded with suspicion and no smoke without fire and suffer prejudice because he has been falsely accused.
Miscarriages of justice will happen of course - no system can be perfect - if we allow ourselves to continue to suspect that a man found not guilty was really guilty and abuse him on that basis, then we would be compounding that miscarriage.
Dev, it is possible to side with your view about innocent before proven guilty whilst also holding that the way he and his team conducted themselves during the trial left a nasty taste in the mouth.
I think the mistake you are making @DevC is confusing the law failure to make a solid prosecution and the grubby little sh1t's innocence.
This was not a great victory for injustice and Evans should not be lauded as such. He should just be simply ignored. Anyone who boos him when we play him is ill advised, anyone who decides to give him an ovation like he is a freed member of The Birmingham 6 etc really should check their moral compass.
And you REALLY should read the secret barrister post for a full explanation of the legal case and its ramifications.
And in one sentence you have destroyed the whole basis of the legal system in this country. If he is found not guilty, he is as innocent as you or me. End of story.
I am not asking you to applaud him. As I said in my original post, his morals at the time were reprehensible, although sadly such feral behaviour is far from uncommon these days. He should not be abused and certainly shouts of rapist, rapist would be as unacceptable and ignorant as cries of murderer murderer are aimed at mccormick. I for one will also feel guilt that we as society took 30 months of his life away as it turns out unjustly.
Incidentally I have read and agree with most of the secret barrister article. Except that it implies that it is OK to continue to regard an acquitted man as probably guilty. It isn't. That is the only chance he has to clear his name. If we take that approach, it is an extremely insidious path.
Of all the injustices in the world this is the one you choose to bang on about.
It's been done to death
The real issue here is Dev yet again appointing himself sole arbiter of morality, predicting that others will fall short of his behavioural standards, and using the whole exercise to feel superior to everyone else
It's dreadful repeated stuff from him. Perhaps he should wait until people actually do stuff he doesn't agree with before calling them "neanderthals"?
Legally @DevC Ched Evans has not been proved innocent unless I have misunderstood the intriguing (and intellectually challenging) "myth busting" item posted yesterday by @drcongo. He has indeed "done his time" and restarted his life. Whether he is the nasty bit of work that some describe is for those who know him to judge.
I may be a bore but I certainly don't hate you @DevC .
Plenty of 'innocent' people receive abuse for their questionable morals. Don't see why Evans would be any different.
He's not been proved innocent, @Micra. But he is innocent until proved guilty. Which he hasn't been following a retrial. Therefore Dev is absolutely right and I share his distaste for @TheAndyGrahamFanClub and @Chris's equivocating. I too have read what the Secret Barrister has written and I believe what I'm saying here is entirely consistent.
There's a creeping sense that decisions made by the judiciary should be fair game for armchair experts following the Ched Evans and Article 50 cases. I profoundly disagree - anyone hinting there's "no smoke without fire" in the case of the former should think long and hard about the consequences of undermining the British system of justice.
If Evans has been done such an injustice, let's see if he sues the authorities, which he'd be entitled to.
Or whether he thanks his lucky stars he's had such an incredible let off, both from his partner (which everyone seems to completely glaze over the cheating on her element), and the laws and doesn't dare push his luck/bring more focus on what i'm certain he'll want to brush away.
Evans behaviour that night as a minimum shows his attitude towards women, and his belief that he could do what he wants. The smearing of the "victim" and attempts to offer cash to the worker to "remember" any key information are truly shady behaviour.
I am touched and slightly blushing Mr Micra.............
The point that article is making is that Evans has not been "proved innocent" because our system does not require anyone to prove themself innocent.
The onus is on the state to prove someone guilty beyond reasonable doubt
Ched Evans has not been "proved innocent" any more than you or I have, because he doesn't have to
Still no new views on Ched Evans but I am interested in how this thread seems to be just as much about DevC as it is about Ched Evans. Some very interesting dynamics forming after recent events.
I'm not sure but I feel like some on here are holding back in their views and I'm not sure that is much better than Ched Evans sleeping with other women behind his girlfriends back and then having his girlfriends parents pay to prove it. Be true to yourselves.
That's one of the most bonkers paragraphs you've ever written, and I don't make that claim lightly
Not even sure what it means to be honest