FIFA ban on the wearing of Poppies
there is a petition on Change.org (goggle [email protected]) which has over 200,000 signatures telling FIFA to give consent. I believe the Sun newspaper is involved but it hasn't stopped me from adding my signature. I hope many more Chairboys join me.
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Comments
Nope.
Ban on political statements is there for a reason.
We like the poppy, and justifiably so. We may not like the statement that another country wishes to make when we have to play them. Blanket ban is the right way to go.
Players wear poppies. Government pays any FIFA fine. All sorted.
I wouldn't wear a poppy if you paid me. One of the reasons Jon Snow is the best news anchor.
Maybe I’m being blinded by my own beliefs on the situation, but the poppy is a sign of remembrance not a political symbol like the Labour rose or the Conservative tree. Should we ask fifa if we should ban the 1 min silence we have for people when they have died, as it equates to a “political protest”.
@DevC I'm not trying to have a pop at you, just try to understand the situation better, but how is the poppy a political statement. I cannot see how it is anything other than a mark of respect, I fail to see the association to a political movement. shall we have a blanket ban on red roses for valentine's day so we dont offend anyone of House of York with the countries overwhelming support for the House of Lancaster.
The poppy is a political symbol, hence it being discussed in Parliament today. Some people wear a white poppy to symbolise their appreciation of those who have died but rejection of military solutions that they died for. Others reject the symbolism full-stop. For example catholics in Ireland refuse to wear them because they believe it commemorates oppression of their people by the UK. Even the FA accept it falls within the definition of political statement.
I am not making any comment on the poppy itself - simply saying that I fully understand the reasons FIFA has a rule against political statements on shirts.
Lets look at a hypothetical situation. We are due to play Argentina in the World Cup on their national day. They want to wear shirts commemorating those who died defending the Malvinas and their right to that land. Are you OK with that?
Are we really so insecure that we cannot quietly and personally remember victims of war in whatever way we wish without 22 footballers running around with a poppy on their arm during the match? Feels like a silly non-issue blown up for political purposes to me.
Wasn't this all discussed last year and a compromise reached? Why is it all going around again? What has changed?
The top bods at FIFA have changed since then.
Firstly thanks Dev for replying, I still fail to see how it comes under, political, religious or commercial messages. However I do appreciate your points about the white poppy etc, Maybe that’s half the problem though personal interpretation of the poppy.
I dispute the part you have said about “the FA accepts it falls within the definition of political statement.”
The poppy is NOT a political statement, it’s a symbol of remembrance and a mark of respect’, Scottish FA chief executive Stewart Regan tells talk SPORT. “He and FA chairman Greg Clarke are hoping to persuade FIFA to allow England and Scotland players to wear the poppy in their upcoming World Cup qualifier at Wembley.” If the two heads of both the English and Scottish FA are saying this I don’t think the FA accepts it falls within the definition of political statement.
The above information was taken from talk sport’s website link here: http://talksport.com/football/poppy-not-political-statement-its-symbol-remembrance-and-mark-respect-scottish-fa-chief
In relation to the Falkland’s yes I wouldn’t like it but I still believe that they should have the right to wear something commemorating their dead.
@NorthumberlandBlue Jon Snow DOES wear a poppy...just not on the air. His protest is against those who demand that all broadcasters wear one...and he gets a load of abuse for it every single year. I understand why republicans see it as an issue (despite lots of Irish soldiers dying in WW1 at least) but I do not see it as a Political Statement, more a commemoration of sacrifice and support for servicemen still affected. They debate anything in Parliament these days @DevC What else would they be doing? Also White poppy??? Haven't seen one of them since the 1980s.
Well at least Jon Snow stands up to poppy facism on air. If some old duffer tried to sell me one I would politely decline.
I took my comment re FA accepting it as political from the BBC which (unless I misread it) said just that. They have updated the report since May jumped on the bandwagon so cant check now.
For me there is no doubt that the poppy is political. You may agree with its message, that doesn't stop it being political.
Cant footballers just get on with playing football and kits be used to tell the two teams apart. Why do we need to use a football match to send out any message at all?
Watch and enjoy the match if you wish. Before or afterwards take a few minutes to privately remember those who have died in warfare if you wish. No need for a collective display (or indeed for an exercise in poppy fascism against those who choose not to).
The poppy symbol itself is not political. It is a mark of remembrance and respect.
Whether, or not, a person wishes to contribute to the appeal and then wear a poppy may be considered a political decision. Each to their own, of course, but to refer to a poppy seller as an "..old duffer.." is, without doubt, a disrespectful and offensive way in which to describe someone who is selflessly giving their time for the benefit of others.
@DevC I assumed your "Nope" was because you agreed with the FIFA statement that it was a political comment. From your comments regarding the Poppy it appears that you are not a wearer of the Poppy during the appropriate period. I can respect that, but I hope that you are supportive of the efforts that many fellow citizens do supporting the victims and dependents of the victims through displaying their Poppies and the contributions they make when buying the Poppies. @ NorthuberlandBlue, your comment about some Old Duffer requires no comment. I just feel very sad that a fellow Chairboy appears to have no respect for the Men and Women who fought and some who gave their lives defending this country in our time of need.
@DevC I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one overall, but thank you for responding in a civil manner and challenging my point of view as I like to try and see both sides of a discussion, like all of us I can get blinded by my own views at time. Apologies if I came across in a strong manner it was not my intention to push people into wearing poppies who choose not to, but on the same side of the coin English and Scottish players who may want to wear a poppy are potentially being barred for doing so.
I agree we will disagree BSE, and you didn't come across in a strong manner by the way.
The fact that English and Scottish players have been given no say in wearing a poppy but ordered to by their association (largely I suspect for PR reasons) is part of my point.
Whether we wish to privately take time to reflect on history should be an individual decision for it to have any meaning. Whether we wish to display that reflection should be a individual decision. Imposed wearing of the poppy and the poppy fascism becoming all to prevalent against those who don't, is contrary to the principles of free speech IMHO.
I support FIFA rules to outlaw political statements on international football matches. Just let footballers play football. I note nobody has expressed any downside to anybody in society if poppies are not worn for this match.
I have been very careful Mr WInformation not to state whether or not I choose to wear a poppy and whether or not I choose to privately remember those who have died in wars around the world - whether serving military personnel or civilian. Frankly that is none of your goddamned business. If I do choose to take a few private moments, I guarantee it will be a much more reflective deeper, more considered few moments of thought than will be possible for Dele Ali as he charges around a football field with a poppy on his arm.
A good point @BSE. I think it should be up to each player if they want to wear a poppy or not.
If FIFA see it as a political symbol aurely fans should be banned as well?
On the Argentina point I would have no problem with it as it is commemorating people who have died in combat, like the poppy, which I have always seen as remembrance of everyone who has died in conflict. I believe people who see it as a political statement are ignorant and/or have an ulterior motive.
Please stop using the phrase 'Poppy facism' folks. It is a very unfortunate phrase in my opinion. I believe the men and women who died, died so that people could choose to wear a poppy or not, but using the word 'fascism' is unnecessary I think. I've seen volunteers standing about with poppies lest anyone wants to buy one @NorthumberlandBlue but I don't think you need to worry about 'old duffers' giving you the hard sell.
With the greatest respect LX, anyone who dismisses others views that they don't like as "Ignorant" is usually displaying not only ignorance but a fair bit of stupidity too.
Fifa has rules for a reason. Play within the rules. Its quite simple really. If players wish (and don't feel coerced) to wear a poppy to the game or on the way home or in post match interviews after they have changed out of their kit, certainly I have no objection whatsoever to them doing so.
Also I assume there will be a minute's silence next Friday. Why is this allowed? All very strange and unnecessary in my humble opinion.
I stopped wearing a poppy a two years back pretty much because there's now an annual witch hunt against people who don't wear one. Also, the creep of stories claiming they're not being sold somewhere in case people get offended - generally circulated by racists to illustrate the 'sad' demise of Merrie England.
I don't recall poppies on football shirts until very recently and I don't recall anyone being remotely bothered about it.
But then this is the age of being offended.
@DevC 'rules are rules' is a pointless statement. The debate is about whether the poppy is a political symbol. If FIFA have said it is and that is the rule, it is quite reasonable to dispute this rule. If they made a rule banning people from Wales playing football would you just say 'rules are rules, get on with it?'
It is an international political statement, not a domestic one.
I have to say I side with FIFA here. If the Argies turned up with Maldinas memorial shirts, can you imagine the hysteria that would be whipped up by the red tops?
Why do you see it as an international political statement?
So should the 'kick out racism' logos be banned? That is political - even if just about everyone agrees with its sentiment?
I can't quite believe I'm typing these words, but, I agree with @DevC
It's international in that in wars there are victims from at least two countries. Whether or not you're offended by country remembering their dead for a particular battle or set of battles will depend on how you were or were not involved.
There is rarely a peaceful settlement that undoes all the atrocities carried out in the waging of war. You wouldn't want the Serbs and the Bosnians to be wearing potentially provocative symbols in a football match supposedly representing nations coming together under sport. In order to avoid such circumstances FIFA have had to make a rule general enough to be applied consistently and unfortunately this impacts our countries too, but so be it if it avoids issues elsewhere.
The stadium will be full with poppies and the evening will be marked with an appropriate gesture I'm sure.
@DevC, Your expression "none of your Goddamned business" seems strange when I have constantly over a long period of time noted that you felt that you can comment on other posters remarks as if it is your Goddamned business to put them right.
Non-story hyped up by the Sun. Thereby making it a commercial issue. On balance probably more sensible for FIFA to have turned a blind eye but I can accept their interpretation. So what? Choosing to remember by wearing a poppy (or not) is a personal thing but it's this insistence that not doing so is 'disrespectful' peddled by the likes of the Sun that contributes to me not buying a poppy (although I sometimes choose to give the "old duffer" the cash and refuse the poppy).
@bookertease I agree with most of what you say but the debate is about whether FIFA should be preventing wearing a poppy. Forget about the Sun it isn't worth reading (apart from the odd Wycombe based journalist)
@Lloyd2084 I understand what you are sayingabout provocative symbols, but I don't understand why the poppy is considered a provocative symbol?