I am pleased you are not doing that, but to be honest if you reread your posts on this thread it would be easy to conclude you were and I fear many others are doing precisely that. And that is all my "terrible post" was saying. Perhaps you should read it again.
Apart actually from saying what a shame it is that on this of all subjects on which I suspect we largely agree, we have managed to have a fairly unseemly row. my part in which I rather regret.
Well said Eric plant. The names you mentioned above have been well known to those who have followed the events unfolding over the last 15 years or so. In my opinion, they are all guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice .
Irvine Patnick and Paul Middup both repeated a lie they had been told before any investigation had been launched, before any establishment of the real facts had been told.
That is a 'fact' said Middup.
This is 'the truth' said Patnick.
Re: Devc - No one has ever suggested that Duckenfield is solely reponsible, and to do so would diminish the level of cover up in this instance, but he has to take repsonsibility for his lies, his negligence, overseeing a corrupt police force who fabricated evidence, who amended witness statements of their own officers and the public, who initiated a story to denigrate the names of 96 dead individuals and their family and friends, who in a court of law did not contest the decision to take blood alcohol levels of all the deceased, who did not contest the decision to do criminal records checks on all of the deceased.
He assisted in prolonging a living nightmare for hundreds of people over 27 years.
MrWheresthechips
Did say I wouldn't respond any more but this is exactly my point.
Duckenfield is responsible for his negligence that was a major factor in the disaster. He is responsible for his lies (if medically competent).
He is not responsible for the other disgraceful things that went on that you list. That wasn't him. . That was the other buggers. They are the ones who want you to blame Duckenfield for all. They are the ones I want to see held to public vilification at the very least.
I'm a bit dismayed as to how this thread has gone to be honest, point scoring over who wants the most people held accountable for what happened when clearly most, if not all posters on the thread want ANYONE who 1) contributed through criminal negligence the disaster, and/or 2) covered up the causes of the disaster and perverted the course of justice to be brought to book.
@DevC - the suggestion that Duckenfield was immediately absolved of any guilt of being part of the apparatus that orchestrated the cover-up because of some psychosis immediately triggered by the disaster or another mental illness is truly bizarre. If this was the case, this would surely have been published in the extensive 2012 report and 2015 inquest?
It is also quite frankly insulting and offensive to those who have had had to make enormous sacrifices to keep the Hillsborough Justice campaign going for almost three decades so that Duckenfield could be brought to justice whilst SYP and the ruling establishment have closed ranks. All the while Duckenfield got to retire early and live comfortably off a generous police pension.
Wanting to see that conniving shit (politest thing I could find to describe him) finally having justice served on him is not mutually exclusive from wanting to see anyone else involved in either 1) or 2) from being brought to justice.
Dev I assume you are playing devil's advocate. The Establishment have spent millions of OUR taxpayer cash to protect all of those people involved...even to the extent of lawyers just a few weeks ago challenging in court the apologies already made by SYP and even admissions Duckenfield had already made. If he has been 'sacrificed' as you claim...they spent a ****ing long time and plenty of our cash before doing it. I think you'll find there are plenty of senior coppers and Police Federation leaders still in the frame...but as match commander on the day...the buck should at least start its stopping with that arrogant lying get. I can only assume you feel men of a certain age should not be held responsible for 'a little mistake' at work when they were younger? I mean who hasn't left the warehouse light on, broken a tap, or allowed 96 people to be killed at some time or another?
Comments
I am pleased you are not doing that, but to be honest if you reread your posts on this thread it would be easy to conclude you were and I fear many others are doing precisely that. And that is all my "terrible post" was saying. Perhaps you should read it again.
And that really is my final word.
Apart actually from saying what a shame it is that on this of all subjects on which I suspect we largely agree, we have managed to have a fairly unseemly row. my part in which I rather regret.
Why would it be easy to conclude that? Because if a person chooses to talk about one thing then it is impossible that he also thinks other things?
Unseemly it may be but this is such an emotive subject, and rightly so.
Well said Eric plant. The names you mentioned above have been well known to those who have followed the events unfolding over the last 15 years or so. In my opinion, they are all guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice .
Irvine Patnick and Paul Middup both repeated a lie they had been told before any investigation had been launched, before any establishment of the real facts had been told.
That is a 'fact' said Middup.
This is 'the truth' said Patnick.
Re: Devc - No one has ever suggested that Duckenfield is solely reponsible, and to do so would diminish the level of cover up in this instance, but he has to take repsonsibility for his lies, his negligence, overseeing a corrupt police force who fabricated evidence, who amended witness statements of their own officers and the public, who initiated a story to denigrate the names of 96 dead individuals and their family and friends, who in a court of law did not contest the decision to take blood alcohol levels of all the deceased, who did not contest the decision to do criminal records checks on all of the deceased.
He assisted in prolonging a living nightmare for hundreds of people over 27 years.
Bernard Ingham and 'That thing in a blue dress' up to their elbows in it.
MrWheresthechips
Did say I wouldn't respond any more but this is exactly my point.
Duckenfield is responsible for his negligence that was a major factor in the disaster. He is responsible for his lies (if medically competent).
He is not responsible for the other disgraceful things that went on that you list. That wasn't him. . That was the other buggers. They are the ones who want you to blame Duckenfield for all. They are the ones I want to see held to public vilification at the very least.
I'm a bit dismayed as to how this thread has gone to be honest, point scoring over who wants the most people held accountable for what happened when clearly most, if not all posters on the thread want ANYONE who 1) contributed through criminal negligence the disaster, and/or 2) covered up the causes of the disaster and perverted the course of justice to be brought to book.
@DevC - the suggestion that Duckenfield was immediately absolved of any guilt of being part of the apparatus that orchestrated the cover-up because of some psychosis immediately triggered by the disaster or another mental illness is truly bizarre. If this was the case, this would surely have been published in the extensive 2012 report and 2015 inquest?
It is also quite frankly insulting and offensive to those who have had had to make enormous sacrifices to keep the Hillsborough Justice campaign going for almost three decades so that Duckenfield could be brought to justice whilst SYP and the ruling establishment have closed ranks. All the while Duckenfield got to retire early and live comfortably off a generous police pension.
Wanting to see that conniving shit (politest thing I could find to describe him) finally having justice served on him is not mutually exclusive from wanting to see anyone else involved in either 1) or 2) from being brought to justice.
Dev I assume you are playing devil's advocate. The Establishment have spent millions of OUR taxpayer cash to protect all of those people involved...even to the extent of lawyers just a few weeks ago challenging in court the apologies already made by SYP and even admissions Duckenfield had already made. If he has been 'sacrificed' as you claim...they spent a ****ing long time and plenty of our cash before doing it. I think you'll find there are plenty of senior coppers and Police Federation leaders still in the frame...but as match commander on the day...the buck should at least start its stopping with that arrogant lying get. I can only assume you feel men of a certain age should not be held responsible for 'a little mistake' at work when they were younger? I mean who hasn't left the warehouse light on, broken a tap, or allowed 96 people to be killed at some time or another?
Its is time for Justice.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/open-wound-of-battle-of-orgreave-has-still-not-healed-says-yorkshire-mp-1-7904144
http://otjc.org.uk/