Bourne 70 - "These towns have a large ethnic which in my opinion adds to the distaste" - you make statements such as this yet you are surprised at being pidgeon holed as a Daily Mail reader?!
I thought their brand of xenophobic sensationalist right wing journalism would be right up your street!
Interestingly I looked up the definition of bigot : intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself. You seem to fit this perfectly Baldric !?
Every time we have this type of discussion the same few pc brigade come on here hissing "racist" or "ban this poster" when a post has content they might not like, ffs its free speech for ALL, not just for the likes of you Baldric, there has been nothing said on here what could be considered a "hate crime" (and actually nothing illegal at all), if you don't like whats posted on here please put up or shut up
X_Ray_Scotty . In my experience , when someone has a view different to a Liberal , the liberal automatically has a default response which almost always includes the "Daily Mail" attack . It is fired from a position of the moral high ground and it's condescending tones are more "prejudiced" than the perceived "racist"opinion was in the first place . Nice to see you living up to this . I have not incited racial hatred I have not openly discriminated against a fellow human or suggested I am superior to Asians. If you think I have to have miss understood me. I personally do not like areas which have changed to the extent of being no different to Pakinstan . I accept they exist and I have no hatred to any individual who comes from a community such as this . I am aware it is part of our existence in modern Britain . I do not with to ban it , I do not suggest I am better than it . I do not however find it pleasing on the eye and I would feel quite depressed if I had to live among it so I do not . This is my view and my choice and why along with the "white trash" element I do not personally like Luton .
Well said Mr Bandito, Baldric and his ilk, rather than debate the post, and the views expressed, just retort to this same old pathetic attempt to pidgeon hole posters as racists or bigots, and then go running back to the teacher as 'king snitch'.
The law is evolving in these areas and I am no lawyer, so you can all do your own research rather than take my word for it on the legal position. However, I strongly doubt that expressing these views in an ethnically diverse workplace would be acceptable. I didn't suggest a hate crime had been committed, but I don't doubt some of what has been written on this thread is racist. If Bourne and/or others prefer to amend the racist parts of their posts that would be sufficient. Bans should only be the solution where the author is unwilling to comply with such a request. I'm sorry so many people would rather turn this into a debate about me than consider whether the views expressed are racist, or whether being clearly racist they should be accepted on this message board.
I was debating the post(s) and I flagged up the racism it contained. See the data I supplied up thread on what the 2011 census actually said about Luton. Indeed go further and check it out for yourselves. But if confronting racist posts with facts is pigeon holing posters as racist, then its not gong to be too easy to have any debate at all.
I personally don't think the posts should be deleted as it's useful to know the opinions of posters, and it's better to debate than censor. But I'm in two minds as if I were an Asian I'm not sure I'd feel about continuing to post here knowing how other people felt.
I'm amazed that anyone is lining up to defend the comments which were pretty horrible.
Plenty of posts have been deleted from this forum that aren't a crime - that isn't the reason posts are deleted.
@Baldric playing devils advocate a bit here, I asked earlier "what's a racist exactly then". Interestingly to date nobody has chosen to offer an answer. I would urge those who take up the challenge to answer not by opening another tab to Google finding something they like/suits their viewpoint then copy and paste. Just give me an answer based on your/their own interpretation.
Mr Baldric, You miss out the important wording 'In my opinion they are racist posts'. You act just like politicians for from all sides, who have sheltered behind the 'racism cloak' for the last 25 years to try and stifle reasonable debate.
Surely the Gasroom populace can determine by their own posts what is totally unreasonable, and what is acceptable without you running back to the teacher demanding fellow pupils are reprimanded.
Baldric , raising facts is not pigeon holing posters it is you using stats to back up your argument and point of view . Calling people racist because they express a different view to your own and dare to mention negative aspects of an ethnic influence on an area is . I have given clarity as to the fact that I have no hatred , I feel no superiority and I have no wish to remove or hinder a culture but merely that I personally do not feel uplifted or attracted to it for the reasons I have previously given . Why I am I not entitled to express this if it is what I feel ?
I didn't answer because I suspect you are intelligent enough to work it out for yourself, if you don't already know. A common feature of racism is to observe behaviours and attribute them in a blanket and perjorative way to a religious or ethnic group, failing to recognise that the traits are probably not universal to that ethnic group or unique to that group. So one poster blamed the allegedly untidy state of the housing around Kenilworth Road on a particular part of the resident community as if that were something one would automatically expect from that group. He attempted to water this down with references to well behaved Asians and white trash, but the sentence that has been quoted from one of his posts betrays his true feelings. Hope this helps.
Distaste means to me mild dislike and ethnic refers to a group of people who share a racial or cultural background so disliking someone or somewhere on that basis whilst not being illegal I find distasteful.
I'm in the wonderful position of disagreeing with both sides as I don't think Baldric should have asked for someone to be banned or tried to shut down debate instead of challenging the offending remark
@Baldric , would you accept that a large proportion of Asians traditionally live in the more run down areas of towns ? also that these areas have high visual evidence or their culture which seems to co exist with this setting ?. Please explain to me why I should fear saying that I personally do not find these areas attractive and I would not want to live there ?
For what it's worth, I don't think anyone should be banned for having an opinion. Although some of the attitudes expressed on this thread are a little embarrassing.
@Morris_Ital - I tried to do both. If anything the subsequent posts compounded the original offence. I don't like banning people - I didn't sign the petitions that wanted to ban Donald Trump from the UK or Tyson Fury from SPOTY, but nor do I necessarily want to see the Gasroom as a home for out-dated and frankly unpleasant views. Maybe others regard the remarks as part of legitimate debate - I thought they went beyond that point. But I am but one poster.
@bourne70 Your persistence is embarrassing. You use terms like ethnicity and culture as if they are interchangeable. I have no desire to debate further. I wish you well in your spick and span white world. Golf season will resume soon. Your banter is probably still acceptable in the club house. Goodnight.
Baldric the problem is that by asking for Bourne to be banned it distracted attention from his original comment and it becomes a debate on free speech.
So you brand me a racist because you disagree with me but will not answer my questions . You say it's because my persistence is embarrassing and suggest I want a white only world despite the fact I have clearly said this is not my wish . It interests me why you would fear the debate so much. I assume you will not answer but can I ask.... Do you find these areas attractive and would you feel you would want to live there ?
I think you cooked Mr Baldric's goose at @bourne70, when you have challenged him to debate your points, he resorts to the 'white world' and golf taunts. Trying to steryotype those holding different opinions are all the trademarks of the pc nonsense the UK has suffered for decades and has opened the doors for clowns like Nigel Farage.
Chris...you really are holier than though aren't you. I live in the real world and immigration is a real concern for so many in this country. To add the racist tag to anyone that questions it is simply naive and PC correct in the extreme. I wrote 50% are ethnics, with a greater command of English maybe should have been ethnic or of ethnic origins. I don't apolgise for this, my posting is not for your own approval. I totally stand with Bourne70 in what he wrote,though he could and should have written it differently, people fought wars for his right to do that. So to sum up, get off your high horse.
Whoever closed this thread was right to do so, thank you. I have no problem with reasoned debate, as long as it contains a little bit of educated opinion, but bits of this discussion were unpleasantly close to out and out racism. I'll leave you with a small fact, so that next time a thread descends to this level we may be able to drag ourselves out of the gutter.
Comments
I would also like to know this answer ?
Bourne 70 - "These towns have a large ethnic which in my opinion adds to the distaste" - you make statements such as this yet you are surprised at being pidgeon holed as a Daily Mail reader?!
I thought their brand of xenophobic sensationalist right wing journalism would be right up your street!
Interestingly I looked up the definition of bigot : intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself. You seem to fit this perfectly Baldric !?
Every time we have this type of discussion the same few pc brigade come on here hissing "racist" or "ban this poster" when a post has content they might not like, ffs its free speech for ALL, not just for the likes of you Baldric, there has been nothing said on here what could be considered a "hate crime" (and actually nothing illegal at all), if you don't like whats posted on here please put up or shut up
X_Ray_Scotty . In my experience , when someone has a view different to a Liberal , the liberal automatically has a default response which almost always includes the "Daily Mail" attack . It is fired from a position of the moral high ground and it's condescending tones are more "prejudiced" than the perceived "racist"opinion was in the first place . Nice to see you living up to this . I have not incited racial hatred I have not openly discriminated against a fellow human or suggested I am superior to Asians. If you think I have to have miss understood me. I personally do not like areas which have changed to the extent of being no different to Pakinstan . I accept they exist and I have no hatred to any individual who comes from a community such as this . I am aware it is part of our existence in modern Britain . I do not with to ban it , I do not suggest I am better than it . I do not however find it pleasing on the eye and I would feel quite depressed if I had to live among it so I do not . This is my view and my choice and why along with the "white trash" element I do not personally like Luton .
Un pleasing
Well said Mr Bandito, Baldric and his ilk, rather than debate the post, and the views expressed, just retort to this same old pathetic attempt to pidgeon hole posters as racists or bigots, and then go running back to the teacher as 'king snitch'.
The law is evolving in these areas and I am no lawyer, so you can all do your own research rather than take my word for it on the legal position. However, I strongly doubt that expressing these views in an ethnically diverse workplace would be acceptable. I didn't suggest a hate crime had been committed, but I don't doubt some of what has been written on this thread is racist. If Bourne and/or others prefer to amend the racist parts of their posts that would be sufficient. Bans should only be the solution where the author is unwilling to comply with such a request. I'm sorry so many people would rather turn this into a debate about me than consider whether the views expressed are racist, or whether being clearly racist they should be accepted on this message board.
I was debating the post(s) and I flagged up the racism it contained. See the data I supplied up thread on what the 2011 census actually said about Luton. Indeed go further and check it out for yourselves. But if confronting racist posts with facts is pigeon holing posters as racist, then its not gong to be too easy to have any debate at all.
I personally don't think the posts should be deleted as it's useful to know the opinions of posters, and it's better to debate than censor. But I'm in two minds as if I were an Asian I'm not sure I'd feel about continuing to post here knowing how other people felt.
I'm amazed that anyone is lining up to defend the comments which were pretty horrible.
Plenty of posts have been deleted from this forum that aren't a crime - that isn't the reason posts are deleted.
@Baldric playing devils advocate a bit here, I asked earlier "what's a racist exactly then". Interestingly to date nobody has chosen to offer an answer. I would urge those who take up the challenge to answer not by opening another tab to Google finding something they like/suits their viewpoint then copy and paste. Just give me an answer based on your/their own interpretation.
Mr Baldric, You miss out the important wording 'In my opinion they are racist posts'. You act just like politicians for from all sides, who have sheltered behind the 'racism cloak' for the last 25 years to try and stifle reasonable debate.
Surely the Gasroom populace can determine by their own posts what is totally unreasonable, and what is acceptable without you running back to the teacher demanding fellow pupils are reprimanded.
Baldric , raising facts is not pigeon holing posters it is you using stats to back up your argument and point of view . Calling people racist because they express a different view to your own and dare to mention negative aspects of an ethnic influence on an area is . I have given clarity as to the fact that I have no hatred , I feel no superiority and I have no wish to remove or hinder a culture but merely that I personally do not feel uplifted or attracted to it for the reasons I have previously given . Why I am I not entitled to express this if it is what I feel ?
I didn't answer because I suspect you are intelligent enough to work it out for yourself, if you don't already know. A common feature of racism is to observe behaviours and attribute them in a blanket and perjorative way to a religious or ethnic group, failing to recognise that the traits are probably not universal to that ethnic group or unique to that group. So one poster blamed the allegedly untidy state of the housing around Kenilworth Road on a particular part of the resident community as if that were something one would automatically expect from that group. He attempted to water this down with references to well behaved Asians and white trash, but the sentence that has been quoted from one of his posts betrays his true feelings. Hope this helps.
Distaste means to me mild dislike and ethnic refers to a group of people who share a racial or cultural background so disliking someone or somewhere on that basis whilst not being illegal I find distasteful.
I'm in the wonderful position of disagreeing with both sides as I don't think Baldric should have asked for someone to be banned or tried to shut down debate instead of challenging the offending remark
@Baldric , would you accept that a large proportion of Asians traditionally live in the more run down areas of towns ? also that these areas have high visual evidence or their culture which seems to co exist with this setting ?. Please explain to me why I should fear saying that I personally do not find these areas attractive and I would not want to live there ?
Oops. Sorry to have started this.
For what it's worth, I don't think anyone should be banned for having an opinion. Although some of the attitudes expressed on this thread are a little embarrassing.
@Morris_Ital - I tried to do both. If anything the subsequent posts compounded the original offence. I don't like banning people - I didn't sign the petitions that wanted to ban Donald Trump from the UK or Tyson Fury from SPOTY, but nor do I necessarily want to see the Gasroom as a home for out-dated and frankly unpleasant views. Maybe others regard the remarks as part of legitimate debate - I thought they went beyond that point. But I am but one poster.
@bourne70 Your persistence is embarrassing. You use terms like ethnicity and culture as if they are interchangeable. I have no desire to debate further. I wish you well in your spick and span white world. Golf season will resume soon. Your banter is probably still acceptable in the club house. Goodnight.
I'm wondering who thinks the following are true, reasonable, un-hyperbolic, pleasant things to say:
I personally do not like areas which have changed to the extent of being no different to Pakinstan
These towns have a large ethnic community which in my opinion adds to the distaste
50% of the population of Luton is made up of ethnics
the worse problem of all is that there is a significant element of these people in our midst who would want to do us harm
Do those who said them originally continue to stand by them?
Baldric the problem is that by asking for Bourne to be banned it distracted attention from his original comment and it becomes a debate on free speech.
So you brand me a racist because you disagree with me but will not answer my questions . You say it's because my persistence is embarrassing and suggest I want a white only world despite the fact I have clearly said this is not my wish . It interests me why you would fear the debate so much. I assume you will not answer but can I ask.... Do you find these areas attractive and would you feel you would want to live there ?
Bourne70, you've said racist things, that's why he's calling you a racist. Unless you want to retract anything you've said previously?
I think you cooked Mr Baldric's goose at @bourne70, when you have challenged him to debate your points, he resorts to the 'white world' and golf taunts. Trying to steryotype those holding different opinions are all the trademarks of the pc nonsense the UK has suffered for decades and has opened the doors for clowns like Nigel Farage.
@Chris . I most certainly stand by what I have said and feel .
Chris...you really are holier than though aren't you. I live in the real world and immigration is a real concern for so many in this country. To add the racist tag to anyone that questions it is simply naive and PC correct in the extreme. I wrote 50% are ethnics, with a greater command of English maybe should have been ethnic or of ethnic origins. I don't apolgise for this, my posting is not for your own approval. I totally stand with Bourne70 in what he wrote,though he could and should have written it differently, people fought wars for his right to do that. So to sum up, get off your high horse.
I think that settles it.
Whoever closed this thread was right to do so, thank you. I have no problem with reasoned debate, as long as it contains a little bit of educated opinion, but bits of this discussion were unpleasantly close to out and out racism. I'll leave you with a small fact, so that next time a thread descends to this level we may be able to drag ourselves out of the gutter.
Actual fact: immigrants in this country contribute 64% more in taxes than they cost in Social care. https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration