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Undersoil Heating



  • @LeedsBlue - I have heard from a reliable source that the voting was rigged!

  • Shame more people didn't vote remain in the real thing.

    Depends how you want these discussions to go. You can leave it at

    "Isn't the theory that the undersoil heating saves money over time because it saves the cost of postponed matches? So switching it off would be a false economy?"

    or you can with very imperfect information try to have a rough stab at the possible implications of each option to judge whether it could be.

    The latter is pretty much what the club has to do, they would be more accurate obviously, but in deciding whether to repair the undersoil heating equipment, they would have to guess how often they might have cold enough weather to turn it on, how often after turning it on it actually saved a match that otherwise would have been lost and how much revenue they would lose by then having to play the match on a Tuesday.
    They would have a reasonable steer on cost of running it and cost of labour (stewards, turnstile operators) wasted but the rest informed guesswork.

    You can just rely on a statement (undersoil heating saves money over time by saving the cost of postponed matches) or you can try to work out based on limited information whether that statement feels credible or not. I prefer the latter and will from time to time choose to share those calculations with you. You of course are free to totally ignore them as you please.

  • I think you will find if the Luton game next week was postponed we would lose tens of thousands in lost revenue, just saying for arguments sake, would expect 7,500 at least for this game.

  • Maybe Sands. The club will know how much it costs to employ stewards, turnstiles and food people for a matchday - I would be absolutely astonished if there were 175 such people in total.

    Food loss , again the club would know and you are right depends on timing and whether it has been cooked or not - once cooked its useless. Before that only loss is perishables - bread etc - non-perishables - eg beer, veg etc - generally just waits for the next game.

    The club would have a decent steer on these costs. It would be guessing on revenue lost from a weekday game compared to weekend , how often etc.

    I believe you are right that the system was installed years ago when Wasps were here.
    WWFC have to decide whether to continue to maintain it.

  • Surely the most important matter to consider is that Gareth wouldn't want matches unnecessarily postponed due to a frozen pitch lesding to a backlog of fixtures. I know cleverclogs Dev will respond by advising us all that it could work in our favour if we have a lot of injuries/suspensions at the time.

  • "cleverclogs Dev" may well respond by saying that we live in the South east of England and hence frost postponements are relatively rare - even given the Sands microclimate - which is why for example Oxford don't to the best of my knowledge need undersoil heating.

  • You are probably right that there are more than 30, 175? I think that is way overstated. Pretty sure they wouldn't be paid ยฃ50 each per game on average either.

    Only food I can see being lost is hospitality and then only if t is a late postponement. Pasties, drinks and beer in kiosks unlikely to have been used unless its an incredibly late postponement.

  • They ran out of Snickers in the Beechdean last game. I hope they have ordered more. I have requested confirmation from the club. No news as yet.

  • @Wendoverman said:
    They ran out of Snickers in the Beechdean last game. I hope they have ordered more. I have requested confirmation from the club. No news as yet.

    Catering in the Frank Adams is an utter shambles at the moment so I don't think they'd lose much on the current mediocre food sales.

  • Games in hand are not can all come back to bite the's hoping the weather does not add to our fixture backlog!

  • I remember Fulham FC paying for the undersoil heating. This enabled Wasps to come to Wycombe and Fulham share with QPR for a couple of seasons whilst Craven Cottage was rebuilt.

  • edited January 2017

    @FlyingPostman said:
    Wasps were playing at Loftus Road at the time

  • When I'm full I put my beer and veg in the sideboard for later

  • IMVHO having working undersoil heating is an absolute no-brainer. Ludicrous to suggest @DevC that we would probably "lose" only one match every two seasons.
    We have had 3 mild winters since 12/13 but there have been half a dozen occasions since mid November when the minimum overnight air temperature has been between minus 3 and minus 5 centigrade. As recently as 2 January, the match against Newport would have been called off had the undersoil heating not been switched on (rather belatedly as it turned out). The air temperature is forecast to drop below freezing in Sands tonight so I suspect/hope that the boiler is blasting away. Next Saturday's match could also be under threat if current forecasts prove accurate.

  • Totally agree @micra, even if we ignore the financial aspects of cancelled games, avoiding fixture pile up later in the season when we are in the hunt for 3 trophies is critical!

  • I hope your enjoyment of the game tomorrow, micro, is not spoilt by herds of feral huskies and seasonally employed elves blocking your path in your brand new snowmobile as you traverse the barren artic tundra that is speen. At least the sun will be up in a couple of months now.

    36 games were scheduled on jan 2nd across the country in the lower three divisions, the vast majority on grounds without heating. Not one was lost to the weather. Tonight met office forecasts the temperature will fall to a positively artic minus one. I think you might just be ok.

  • I think comment would be superfluous @DevC other than to say that Sands is in a frost hollow and that is what happened on 2 January.

  • Forgot to mention. I was there. It took nearly 10 minutes to de-ice the car

  • ....after the game.

  • As is usually the case DevC is pretty much spot on with his financial arguments. In financial terms it is relatively straight-forward to work out a cost-benefit analysis for cost of maintaining/running the undersoil heating against the costs of a late postponement x times a season based on historical data (and I don't actually think he's far out with his guess - I'd say 5 times in 5 years would be about right from what I remember pre-installation. Although given the number of home games we've got in January/February this year the odds this season would be a bit higher).

    As is usually the case however he hasn't included the intangibles, for example greater workload on tired players later in the season for which it is very difficult to put a monetary value on (see also the endless previous discussions on quality of football against league position).

    But as Dev is the keeper of the 'magic plastic rectangle thing' I'm in no position to criticise

  • Pleased to report that the undersoil heating did it's job once again.

  • It was bloody cold today frost on the car again when i got back

  • Undersoil heating boiler blasting away today and will probably be on until Saturday. - minus 6 Tuesday night; minus 5 last night. Ground has been frozen solid. We get it extra cold in the south east whenever cold continental air spreads across as it did earlier this week. And, as locals know, Adams Park is in a frost hollow with very little of the pitch catching the sun at this time of year. Can't think of any other League pitches situated similarly.

  • Lucky Dev isn't in charge as he wouldn't have the heating on and thus probably havie no game on Saturday!

  • Funny you should say that. He really hasn't a clue.

  • You should take up a role as a undersoil heating salesman, Mr Micra.

    No way of knowing personally and the only data I can find is for HW itself rather than Sands, but met office reckons it didnt get below freezing at all on Wednesday, reached the heady lows of -0.6 degrees today for an hour, and might make -1 degree for a short time on Friday and even more briefly on Saturday morning.

    Occasionally football matches will be lost to frost and yes Adams park is in a bit of a frost hollow. If you have it, you would probably turn it on, but hard to believe there would be a case in install it where you didn't already have it or indeed to incur a significant repair cost if it needed it. I bow to your superior knowledge and salesmanship though.

    Wrap up warm on Saturday though, don't want any more hallucinations.....

    Enjoy the game.

  • I will have to get the garage to look at my car as the temperature guage indicated minus 4 early wednesday morning. The guage is clearly faulty in view of Dev's meteorologist expertise.

  • I have a meteorological max/min thermometer attached at standard height to my shed and the temperatures I have quoted were recorded on that thermometer. It is already recording minus 2 at 7pm this evening. I live on a hill (not near Speen @DevC) and there are two incontrovertible facts about temperatures. In calm, clear conditions (as we have now), low-lying rural areas will be colder at night than those higher up; secondly, in those conditions, the ground temperature will be significantly lower than the temperature at the standard meteorological height. Adams Park is in a beautiful setting but it does have its downside.

    I'm not sure why I am wasting my time trying to get the message across. As Mooneyman says, it's a good job he's not in charge.

  • I have no meteorological expertise, mooney.

    I do believe the met office have a bit though.

    I have no insight on the weather conditions 200 miles away beyond what I read

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