OK I'll come clean. I've made all this up to provoke Dev. It is actually 6 deg Celsius at present and I've had to turn off the under floor heating. I didn't really spend five years in the Met Office and I didn't train and share digs with Bill Giles at the Met Office Training School in 1957.
Getting to be one of those bizarre conversations, that you wish you had never started.
Tap under soil heating costs into Google and if Peterborough are typical and telling the truth, it costs £700,000 to install undersoil heating.
Q1) micra. Can you confirm that if true cost is even half that, you would not advocate installing a system if we didn't already have it?
Q2) micrA. Pre undersoil heating being installed, I don't remember endless games being cancelled for frost. What is your recollection of how many were lost in those days? Do you even have data.
Q3) micra. Couple of sources online suggest it costs about £4k per run to potentially save a match. Obviously there must be times when you choose to run the system in hindsight unnecessarily. Do you have a view on realistic operating cost per game saved?
Q4) micra. What would be your estimated cost of a postponement? I gave my ball park guess above?
Q5) micra. Based on your answer to 2) 3) and 4), would you run the system if you have it?
Q6) hypothetically if the system needed repair which would cost say £40k, would you suggest they spent the money or let it die? Why?
I would think its obvious, otherwise people would be saying its broken just when they have a big game and players tired or injured, if you have the system it has to be serviced once a year and The FA and EFL provided with a report, same as the lux of the floodlights.
@rmjlondon said:
I would think its obvious, otherwise people would be saying its broken just when they have a big game and players tired or injured, if you have the system it has to be serviced once a year and The FA and EFL provided with a report, same as the lux of the floodlights.
I've just read the EFL criteria. It's very strict on Lux but there's no mention of it being essential to maintain an undersoil heating system. It simply says you must have frost covers and / or undersoil heating. I imagine frost covers are the cheaper option.
Personally I'm glad we have it as it means fewer cancelled games - useful when you have a long journey.
Finally, everyone knows that AP is much colder than the surrounding area. I've left there with thick frost on the car, got to Downley and there's nothing.
Crikey, what happened there guys? I was simply trying to bring down my exchange (13 January) with @sandsexile. Afraid, if anyone still has the energy or inclination, you'll just have to scroll back.
I have long been cynical about the use of the undersoil heating system - in my opinion it has often been switched on
(or switched itself on?) when there has been little or no risk of the soil becoming frozen hard. {Please see my post of 12 January, the sixth post on this thread.} On those occasions I have seen massive £ signs floating in the blast of warm air that issues from under the away stand. And of course there have been one or two well chronicled occasions when failure to switch on the system has proved costly to both fans (especially visiting fans) and, arguably @DevC, to the club.
As I said in my post of 12 January, an article on this topic (in the matchday programme, for example) would be welcome.
There has been rather too much hot air on this rather narrow subject (could the gasroom be an alternative solution to undersoil or frost covers)
There is no doubt that it sometimes get cold at Adams Park. There is no doubt that undersoil heating is expensive to install and expensive to operate and it judgement on when to turn it on and incur cost and when not to and risk a problem If the weather is worse than expected must be a difficult one for a cash strapped club.
Appears to me that if a substantial repair came along, it would be at best a marginal decision whether to fund the repair or swap to frost covers
Gave me an opportunity to read the League regulations re ground requirements, which was fascinating. Must get out more.
Enjoy the game tomorrow, might be a tough one I fear.
Don't think we've ever beaten Luton at AP but you just never know - could tomorrow be the day to lay the bogie?
As you say, it will be tough but I doubt whether there'll be too many dull moments.
Just hope Cashket is fit!
No doubt in my mind, the greatest heat on here is generated by discussions about "players with chequered histories" and the rights and wrongs of the judicial/penal system. Would work a treat in a cold snap.
Agreed @Wig_and_Pen 'dog**** football' 'GA needs to drop his pal HAyesy' 'Get a Life' and 'I heard Bayo is on £8000 a week' would hardly melt one of the corners...
I hope the club haven't relied on the Gasroom's meteriorological expert as to the temperature outside and actually turned the heating on today. It's bloody cold out there!
Comments
Don't believe all you read then Dev!
Better not start mentioning things about which you have no expertise.
Would be the longest thread in gasroom history
OK I'll come clean. I've made all this up to provoke Dev. It is actually 6 deg Celsius at present and I've had to turn off the under floor heating. I didn't really spend five years in the Met Office and I didn't train and share digs with Bill Giles at the Met Office Training School in 1957.
game, set and match
The sumptuous irony of Dev talking about having no expertise on something 200 miles away. Enjoyed that a lot.
Getting to be one of those bizarre conversations, that you wish you had never started.
Tap under soil heating costs into Google and if Peterborough are typical and telling the truth, it costs £700,000 to install undersoil heating.
Q1) micra. Can you confirm that if true cost is even half that, you would not advocate installing a system if we didn't already have it?
Q2) micrA. Pre undersoil heating being installed, I don't remember endless games being cancelled for frost. What is your recollection of how many were lost in those days? Do you even have data.
Q3) micra. Couple of sources online suggest it costs about £4k per run to potentially save a match. Obviously there must be times when you choose to run the system in hindsight unnecessarily. Do you have a view on realistic operating cost per game saved?
Q4) micra. What would be your estimated cost of a postponement? I gave my ball park guess above?
Q5) micra. Based on your answer to 2) 3) and 4), would you run the system if you have it?
Q6) hypothetically if the system needed repair which would cost say £40k, would you suggest they spent the money or let it die? Why?
if you have the system it has to be used and maintained under football league rules.
Could you show a link to the rule that requires system to be maintained
@DevC you didn't start it
I would think its obvious, otherwise people would be saying its broken just when they have a big game and players tired or injured, if you have the system it has to be serviced once a year and The FA and EFL provided with a report, same as the lux of the floodlights.
I can find no such rule.
No obligation I can see not to dump it and switch to frost covers.
I've just read the EFL criteria. It's very strict on Lux but there's no mention of it being essential to maintain an undersoil heating system. It simply says you must have frost covers and / or undersoil heating. I imagine frost covers are the cheaper option.
Personally I'm glad we have it as it means fewer cancelled games - useful when you have a long journey.
Finally, everyone knows that AP is much colder than the surrounding area. I've left there with thick frost on the car, got to Downley and there's nothing.
frost covers cost around 150/200k to buy.
Source please.
That scene from Seven, where Brad Pitt's character asks Kevin Spacey's "do you know you're insane?" just popped into my head for some reason
It's like Moore's last Bond film, 'A View To A Kill'.
He was in Seine in the opening credits
Fight Club surely eric?
Crikey, what happened there guys? I was simply trying to bring down my exchange (13 January) with @sandsexile. Afraid, if anyone still has the energy or inclination, you'll just have to scroll back.
I have long been cynical about the use of the undersoil heating system - in my opinion it has often been switched on
(or switched itself on?) when there has been little or no risk of the soil becoming frozen hard. {Please see my post of 12 January, the sixth post on this thread.} On those occasions I have seen massive £ signs floating in the blast of warm air that issues from under the away stand. And of course there have been one or two well chronicled occasions when failure to switch on the system has proved costly to both fans (especially visiting fans) and, arguably @DevC, to the club.
As I said in my post of 12 January, an article on this topic (in the matchday programme, for example) would be welcome.
There has been rather too much hot air on this rather narrow subject (could the gasroom be an alternative solution to undersoil or frost covers)
There is no doubt that it sometimes get cold at Adams Park. There is no doubt that undersoil heating is expensive to install and expensive to operate and it judgement on when to turn it on and incur cost and when not to and risk a problem If the weather is worse than expected must be a difficult one for a cash strapped club.
Appears to me that if a substantial repair came along, it would be at best a marginal decision whether to fund the repair or swap to frost covers
Gave me an opportunity to read the League regulations re ground requirements, which was fascinating. Must get out more.
Enjoy the game tomorrow, might be a tough one I fear.
Don't think we've ever beaten Luton at AP but you just never know - could tomorrow be the day to lay the bogie?
As you say, it will be tough but I doubt whether there'll be too many dull moments.
Just hope Cashket is fit!
@StrongestTeam but which subject would be best for full thaw?
No doubt in my mind, the greatest heat on here is generated by discussions about "players with chequered histories" and the rights and wrongs of the judicial/penal system. Would work a treat in a cold snap.
Agreed @Wig_and_Pen 'dog**** football' 'GA needs to drop his pal HAyesy' 'Get a Life' and 'I heard Bayo is on £8000 a week' would hardly melt one of the corners...
Will gaz stick with the thaw freeze freeze formation against Luton
I hope the club haven't relied on the Gasroom's meteriorological expert as to the temperature outside and actually turned the heating on today. It's bloody cold out there!
Ha Ha - just got it. Quick, me!
Full English and thermals now. COYB.
Dev probably told the groundsman it was a waste of money switching it on.