That's the thing - we've only been a League club 30 years. That's not long compared to most. So what if our attendances aren't huge at this level? They will be if we establish ourselves in the Champ.
Lack of school engagement, crappy / leaky facilities, high prices, dreadful catering, difficult access. It’s all been done to death but the club don’t seem interested in the crowds. Yet another policy of the new owners I find puzzling, but it’s not my millions going into the club.
Genuine question: is there a worse-located ground in the 92? There are grounds further from the town centre (although probably not many), but they're not generally plonked down the end of an industrial state with one road in and out and difficult parking!
Thing is, going back to 50's/60's/early 70's we could regularly attract crowds of 10k+ but our attendances have rather plateaued at Adams Park. Always annoys me when people say that High Wycombe isn't a football town, it most definitely is, or at least was a football town. I always feel the interest is there, it's just actually getting people to attend on a regular basis that's the problem. It's a mystery to me why we don't get bigger crowds. Perhaps it is the location? Let's face it, it's miles away from say Hazlemere and Loudwater and even a good 5 miles or so from Micklefield which must be the largest estate in the town. It that respect, it's perhaps understandable why our midweek crowd in particular are so low.
That's a fair point of course. But I'd have thought (without doing any research!) that with crowds generally on the up, that we're not that far off 50's/60's levels now. But at Wycombe, we really seem to struggle increasing the crowds. I'd think ground location must have something to do with it?
As a side point, to me away crowds seem to be significantly down this season. How many teams have bought more than 1000 to AP this season? Can't think of any beyond Reading and Birmingham. I do think our away crowds hold up pretty well compared to others, albeit probably helped by our form this season.
Does anyone think we will try and build a new stadium under these new owners? If so, do you think it would be successful (planning application, etc.)? And would you support such an endeavor?
I agree with this post. Yes, there are several valid reasons why our attendances aren’t higher, but as he says other clubs face similar problems yet still attract bigger crowds than we do. A club that has been in the top two of the league table all season is in the bottom four for average attendances and I just don’t understand why.
I reckon so, or at the very least completely revamp Adams Park - let's be honest, it's not in the best shape. Somewhere a similar distance out of town but with better access would be an upgrade, assuming we can't build *in* town (I mean, where would we put it?).
With no factual evidence to support, I'll surmise that Sky+ and streaming has had an effect on crowds. Maybe only in the hundreds but significant nonetheless. Without those vehicles you'd think Tuesday's crowd might've been closer to 5k??? Fully understand why people would stay at home btw and that's been done to death already.
It's boom time for crowds throughout the pyramid. Sadly we haven't capitalised/we've regressed. Perhaps worth noting that it's the same stadium and location that regularly drew 5k+ in the 90s and even an average of 6.5k in the early 00s...yes, I know, lots of factors...I'm tapping out.
If we’re talking just about access by car and parking, in our division I would say Charlton, Wrexham, Stockport, Lincoln, Orient, Bristol Rovers, Exeter, Cambridge and that’s just off the top of my head and only League 1.
Purely from the perspective of an away fan reliant on public transport - I would vote for the FGR ground, a sweet 5 miles from the nearest train station.
You could of course argue that most clubs would put on a coach that would take you straight there, but I don't live in Wycombe so supporters' coaches don't help me personally.
I mean in general - Charlton station itself is small, but the ground isn't too far from other stops. Haven't done the others, so not sure what local transport links are like. That's the biggest problem with AP imo - you've got the matchday bus back to town but not much else.
I didn't go Tuesday night and I am, quite openly, part of the Tuesday night attendance problem. I can give my reason for not going despite Wycombe doing so well. These are as honest as I can be
I like a beer, so don't want to drive, my options are getting a taxi there and back, or two buses from Hazlemere. Compare this to when I was 18(I'm now 41), I lived near the bottom of Plomer hill in Downley which I could easily walk to
The ticket price to sit where the majority of people that I know sit, is £29. I could pay less and stand in the terrace but I would not be with any of my mates.
Going back to the price - on it's own, it's not the issue. However, if all of the people who I used to stand / sit with back when I was 18 were in the same area, I would pay it. However, they aren't, they have families of their own now and have different preferences of where they want to sit. Wycombe is as much about the social as the football for me, so it's a big deal to be with friends.
I'd be eager to know if attendances have changed greatly since I started watching in 1999. I've always felt they fluctuated between 4k and 6.5k, but I may be wrong. Nothing has ever swung that dramatically
I think we have a really great young group of fans who are very loyal, but in 20 years some will be where I am.
Also, just a note to add, a lot of the lads who still go regularly who are now in their 40's like me, go with their fathers. Which is great, but I don't, so I think the family aspect can keep people coming back for years. Something for the club to tap in to more for future generations perhaps.
I've been to all of these other than Wrexham. All of them are miles more accessible than AP. The only worse located EFL ground I can think of is Oxford, and they are moving in the next few years
Are you seriously saying that driving to and from and parking close to the grounds I listed is easier than Adams Park? I have found every one of them an absolute nightmare when it comes to traffic, narrow streets packed with parked cars, and even if you have a dedicated parking space it takes ages to get away after the game.
I agree, I've been to all bar Orient and all of them by car apart from Charlton. Every single one, I could park within 10-15 mins walk, for free, and drive off at the end of the match without sitting in too much traffic. FGR is the only one I would say is worse, but as flymo says, no longer in the 92. I've done 57 of the 92 and think that AP is the single worst for access when combining public and private transport.
Our attendances are poor, and it comes down to 3 main factors, all of which are impossible or difficult to change:
Accessibility: AP is miles from the town centre and railway station, and is a pain to drive to/from on matchday
Demographics: Wycombe has a high proportion of people (including my parents) who moved from other parts of the country (Liverpool and Scunthorpe in my parents' case) to live and work in London / the South East. They don't have deeply embedded links to the area and are therefore less likely to support the football team or get their children into WWFC. For example, I was raised as an Everton fan because of my Dad, and he very rarely comes to Wycombe games unless we're at Wembley. In addition, Wycombe has a huge South Asian community (mainly Pakistanis), especially in the younger age groups. For whatever reason, this demographic does not support local teams. They nearly all support Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man U, PSG, Real Madrid, etc
Proximity of other teams. First, we're just outside London, so it is easy to support a London Prem team. In addition, if you wanted to support a local EFL team, anyone west of Stokenchurch is in Oxfordshire and will likely support Oxford. Anyone north of Aylesbury will likely support MK or Luton. Anyone south of Maidenhead will be closer to Reading. Anyone in Amersham or beyond will be closer to Watford. And anyone in Gerrard's Cross or further is closer to London teams like QPR. This leaves a very limited area for a core local support base. Compare us to places like Shrewsbury, Lincoln, Oxford, Swindon, etc, all of whom are in the centre of their county and have nowhere near the same level of pressure from other EFL teams or from London Prem teams
As long as I've been supporting Wycombe (a very long time) you have been criticising the attendances at home games (back in the day it was via your programme notes, which I always used to enjoy)
I don't think I can remember one suggestion you have ever offered to get more people to attend
Strange how experiences can differ. When we played at Cambridge recently I had a designated parking spot at the ground, waited 20 minutes after the final whistle and it still took me 45 minutes to get out of the city.
Have to say just about the last ground I would have described as poorly located would be Exeter. Five minute walk from city centre with bars restaurants and shopping and ten minutes from beautiful cathedral and its green (albeit a shame the Royal Clarence burnt down). I have never had a problem parking either. Bit of character to the ground too and they have fixed the away end too. Can’t think of many better.
Last time I went to Cambridge (the 4-1 win where Vokes scored twice) we had a 10 min walk to the car, straight out the city and back in Wycombe in about 2 hours. It was a Tuesday night so that would have helped, but yeah, found it very easy.
Comments
That's the thing - we've only been a League club 30 years. That's not long compared to most. So what if our attendances aren't huge at this level? They will be if we establish ourselves in the Champ.
Lack of school engagement, crappy / leaky facilities, high prices, dreadful catering, difficult access. It’s all been done to death but the club don’t seem interested in the crowds. Yet another policy of the new owners I find puzzling, but it’s not my millions going into the club.
Genuine question: is there a worse-located ground in the 92? There are grounds further from the town centre (although probably not many), but they're not generally plonked down the end of an industrial state with one road in and out and difficult parking!
Thing is, going back to 50's/60's/early 70's we could regularly attract crowds of 10k+ but our attendances have rather plateaued at Adams Park. Always annoys me when people say that High Wycombe isn't a football town, it most definitely is, or at least was a football town. I always feel the interest is there, it's just actually getting people to attend on a regular basis that's the problem. It's a mystery to me why we don't get bigger crowds. Perhaps it is the location? Let's face it, it's miles away from say Hazlemere and Loudwater and even a good 5 miles or so from Micklefield which must be the largest estate in the town. It that respect, it's perhaps understandable why our midweek crowd in particular are so low.
Where are your millions going, @Lloyd2084 ?
You don’t have to answer that if you’re not in the mood. 🫢🙄
Weren't football crowds bigger across the board in that era, though? Some time before the Taylor Report changes.
That's a fair point of course. But I'd have thought (without doing any research!) that with crowds generally on the up, that we're not that far off 50's/60's levels now. But at Wycombe, we really seem to struggle increasing the crowds. I'd think ground location must have something to do with it?
As a side point, to me away crowds seem to be significantly down this season. How many teams have bought more than 1000 to AP this season? Can't think of any beyond Reading and Birmingham. I do think our away crowds hold up pretty well compared to others, albeit probably helped by our form this season.
Does anyone think we will try and build a new stadium under these new owners? If so, do you think it would be successful (planning application, etc.)? And would you support such an endeavor?
I agree with this post. Yes, there are several valid reasons why our attendances aren’t higher, but as he says other clubs face similar problems yet still attract bigger crowds than we do. A club that has been in the top two of the league table all season is in the bottom four for average attendances and I just don’t understand why.
I have been to 89 of the 92 grounds in the PL/EFL and there certainly are venues in worse locations than Adams Park.
I reckon so, or at the very least completely revamp Adams Park - let's be honest, it's not in the best shape. Somewhere a similar distance out of town but with better access would be an upgrade, assuming we can't build *in* town (I mean, where would we put it?).
Such as? Genuinely curious - I haven't done nearly that many!
With no factual evidence to support, I'll surmise that Sky+ and streaming has had an effect on crowds. Maybe only in the hundreds but significant nonetheless. Without those vehicles you'd think Tuesday's crowd might've been closer to 5k??? Fully understand why people would stay at home btw and that's been done to death already.
It's boom time for crowds throughout the pyramid. Sadly we haven't capitalised/we've regressed. Perhaps worth noting that it's the same stadium and location that regularly drew 5k+ in the 90s and even an average of 6.5k in the early 00s...yes, I know, lots of factors...I'm tapping out.
If we’re talking just about access by car and parking, in our division I would say Charlton, Wrexham, Stockport, Lincoln, Orient, Bristol Rovers, Exeter, Cambridge and that’s just off the top of my head and only League 1.
Purely from the perspective of an away fan reliant on public transport - I would vote for the FGR ground, a sweet 5 miles from the nearest train station.
You could of course argue that most clubs would put on a coach that would take you straight there, but I don't live in Wycombe so supporters' coaches don't help me personally.
I mean in general - Charlton station itself is small, but the ground isn't too far from other stops. Haven't done the others, so not sure what local transport links are like. That's the biggest problem with AP imo - you've got the matchday bus back to town but not much else.
No longer in the 92 😉
But yeah, that is in the middle of nowhere! And up a beast of a hill I think?
I didn't go Tuesday night and I am, quite openly, part of the Tuesday night attendance problem. I can give my reason for not going despite Wycombe doing so well. These are as honest as I can be
I like a beer, so don't want to drive, my options are getting a taxi there and back, or two buses from Hazlemere. Compare this to when I was 18(I'm now 41), I lived near the bottom of Plomer hill in Downley which I could easily walk to
The ticket price to sit where the majority of people that I know sit, is £29. I could pay less and stand in the terrace but I would not be with any of my mates.
Going back to the price - on it's own, it's not the issue. However, if all of the people who I used to stand / sit with back when I was 18 were in the same area, I would pay it. However, they aren't, they have families of their own now and have different preferences of where they want to sit. Wycombe is as much about the social as the football for me, so it's a big deal to be with friends.
I'd be eager to know if attendances have changed greatly since I started watching in 1999. I've always felt they fluctuated between 4k and 6.5k, but I may be wrong. Nothing has ever swung that dramatically
I think we have a really great young group of fans who are very loyal, but in 20 years some will be where I am.
Also, just a note to add, a lot of the lads who still go regularly who are now in their 40's like me, go with their fathers. Which is great, but I don't, so I think the family aspect can keep people coming back for years. Something for the club to tap in to more for future generations perhaps.
(The shite weather doesn't help either)
I've been to all of these other than Wrexham. All of them are miles more accessible than AP. The only worse located EFL ground I can think of is Oxford, and they are moving in the next few years
Ha ha!
Raising two kids and bailing out the country from the global financial crisis it seems.
Are you seriously saying that driving to and from and parking close to the grounds I listed is easier than Adams Park? I have found every one of them an absolute nightmare when it comes to traffic, narrow streets packed with parked cars, and even if you have a dedicated parking space it takes ages to get away after the game.
I agree, I've been to all bar Orient and all of them by car apart from Charlton. Every single one, I could park within 10-15 mins walk, for free, and drive off at the end of the match without sitting in too much traffic. FGR is the only one I would say is worse, but as flymo says, no longer in the 92. I've done 57 of the 92 and think that AP is the single worst for access when combining public and private transport.
Wrexham is eminently walkable from the town centre and next to a big car park.
Our attendances are poor, and it comes down to 3 main factors, all of which are impossible or difficult to change:
As long as I've been supporting Wycombe (a very long time) you have been criticising the attendances at home games (back in the day it was via your programme notes, which I always used to enjoy)
I don't think I can remember one suggestion you have ever offered to get more people to attend
Strange how experiences can differ. When we played at Cambridge recently I had a designated parking spot at the ground, waited 20 minutes after the final whistle and it still took me 45 minutes to get out of the city.
Bristol Rovers?
Probably one of the easier ones to park at that doesn't have an official car park?
Though I might be judging that with a "as long as you don't mind a 10-15min walk", which I suppose you can level at Wycombe too!
But it's an exceptionally easy arrival and exit though.
Also, if you're early enough you can literally park in the road next to the ground.
Have to say just about the last ground I would have described as poorly located would be Exeter. Five minute walk from city centre with bars restaurants and shopping and ten minutes from beautiful cathedral and its green (albeit a shame the Royal Clarence burnt down). I have never had a problem parking either. Bit of character to the ground too and they have fixed the away end too. Can’t think of many better.
And clearly Orient and Charlton you might not want to drive to, but have rail / underground very close.
Last time I went to Cambridge (the 4-1 win where Vokes scored twice) we had a 10 min walk to the car, straight out the city and back in Wycombe in about 2 hours. It was a Tuesday night so that would have helped, but yeah, found it very easy.