Perceived quality of entertainment is definitely a key factor. The perception of our quality of entertainment (in relation to our style of football) being pretty dire is worryingly widespread and will take time to eradicate.
Yep, catching up on this thread it's a bizarre point for everyone to get upset by.
Yes you "technically" have to log in on one specific page, but there's a very very obvious place to find the prices on the main website - they're not secret!
On the pricing overall question, with a season ticket there's obviously the pro rata discount and if you pay it yearly you sort of just forget about it.
If you were paying £29-31 each game you'd certainly think this is bloody steep for 3rd tier fare! For the first time in about 2 decades I actually swerved an FA cup game over the price and easy TV viewing.
Good job you made the point about kick-off time for the Posh game (12:30pm). I actually hadn't spotted that and might have been arriving at AP just as the game ended!
I am with @micra on this one. It will be interesting to see how many of the people who don't attend every game, but will come to an 'important' game will be at Adams Park at 12:30 on the 19th.
I can't manage all games and although I have had a season ticket for the terrace I sometimes upgrade to the Frank Adams.
All that said the Terrace atmosphere was as good as I can remember for five or six years for the Crawley game and it lasted the whole despite the lack of sheer joy in the second half. It felt more cohesive there than it has done for ages. Felt like the crowd was a 12th man. There was a lovely atmosphere at the Memorial Stadium too.
As has been argued previously on this thread there are many factors that go towards individual decisions on whether to watch the game live, pay to watch on TV, not pay to watch on TV, not see the game at all, but quality of the football entertainment and the atmosphere at the ground must be two of the most important.
MB said he wanted fans to look forward to going to matches, I am really pissed off that the Stockport game has been postponed and I am already decidedly looking forward to the 19th - even though I haven't yet started the Attendance Prediction thread.
You're arguing something that @DevC made up just to be @DevC . As already pointed out, @frequentstander said "on the tickets site", not on the main site. It wasn't even his main point, it was just the thing that @DevC picked up on and then changed into something else entirely so he could feel like a big man by telling someone on the internet that they're wrong.
Personally, I have no dog in this fight. It just annoys the shit out of me when someone makes up bullshit about what another poster said and then spends two pages arguing against the thing they made up, when they could have just read it properly in the first place.
Didn’t this happen quite a while back. Seem to recall the “Blues Card” allowed a discount on 5/10 matches that could be used at any home game. I’ve been in NI for over 20 years now so I’m going back quite a way for this.
I should let you do the talking for me more often! Thank you.
Many of you keep suggesting that people will read the ticket prices - yes that is what people will do. But do new users or extremely infrequent users know what a Frank Adams is. Where’s the family stand? Beechdean? Terrace? It’s a minor point but you do have to log in to suss all of that out - and then you have to cross reference against the 30+ price points again to make an informed decision. Many customers / fans at this point have lost interest.
Like @drcongo said, this wasn’t even a key point for me. The main point is that our attendances recently are dross and the pricing is contributing to that.
Going back about 12-13 years when my son played for a local youth football team, on his first day at training the coach was talking to him and asked him what team he supported, he replied “Wycombe Wanderers” , the coach looked at me and said “doesn’t he support a proper football team?” My son trained in a Wycombe shirt, all the other kids trained in premier league tops. All the football talk amongst the other Dads was about various ( mainly London based) premier league teams and matches, I was an outsider because I was the only parent who followed Wycombe and the only parent who regularly went to live matches. The other Dads assumed League 1or 2 was just hit and hope and would never consider attending a Wycombe match. This from a group of football enthusiasts around Flackwell and Bourne End with a pro league team on their doorstep. We were the odd couple as we supported Wycombe Wanderers.
To be fair @frequentstander when you described the current method of communicating pricing as shocking and terribly wrong, it felt like it was an important point for you. I guess that's the trouble with electronic compared to face to face communication. Sometimes hard to determine intended nuance.
Anyway my interest was piqued so I did a bit of research and discovered the following. A google search for Wycombe tickets takes you to this page Tickets - Wycombe Wanderers (wwfc.com) from which how to book and prices is clearly communicated. This seems to be what the club intends. If you use Yahoo or Bing you can jump this page if you click on "Wycombe Wanderers Ticket Office - C&R robotticket". I think most people would click on the second item called "tickets -wycombe wanderers. understand Google has about 95% of the UK search engine market.
I did check also what other clubs do. Some do take you straight to the ticketing stage where you are expected to click on an available seat and then the price for that seat pops up. Presumably new users are then expected to click on seats in other parts of the stadium to see if there are cheaper options. Have to say I prefer our system but I suppose that is a matter of opinion and personal choice.
In terms of your idea to apply differential pricing to Tuesday games, I don't think it would work if the aim is to maximise revenues for the reasons I outlined above. Airlines for example do you use dynamic pricing but not really to address the problem you are seeking to address but rather to address different market segments. If you disagree I would be interested to hear your logic.
Your opinion is that our prices are too high and that is supressing attendances. Not sure there is evidence to back that up - home fan attendances (sorry Eric I phrased it badly above) are similar this season to last and honestly I am not convinced that dropping prices in any or all category by say 20% would generate the 20% increase in attendance in that category necessary to break even from a revenue perspective.
I don't like it when those unable to defend themselves are accused of doing a bad job especially when that is expressed as fact rather than opinion and from a position of apparent expertise. My instinct is to defend them if I think the criticism is unfair and there is a risk that that in my view incorrect opinion is in danger of becoming an "accepted fact" but always seeking to challenge the idea not the person. I try not to but sometimes instinct takes over. Apologies if you or others were offended.
Didn't our attendances dip at the start of last season though? I'm sure I recall that was the case as we went through the post-Ainsworth blip, poor form and continued cost of living pressures. Surely it'd be better to compare to 22/23, not 23/24?
My ageing memory struggles to remember two weeks ago let alone two years ago. Honestly don't know.
The new CEO chappie seems pretty switched on. I am sure they will be reviewing pricing for next season based on all the available evidence with a view to maximising revenues short and medium term. Not sure, notwithstanding MK Dons actions, it is really practical to change prices midseason when a significant part of the customer base has already locked in for the season. What that will look like time will tell. Perhaps it depends a little on what division we are in by then.
We need to introduce family tickets at a reasonable price to encourage parents to bring their children along. Also, free children games for under 12s or maybe quid a kid games.
Do you feel it is the price of £5 that is too high or is the restriction of that price to one area of the ground the issue. If we are not in the Championship next year, would it be sensible to extend this price to all areas of the ground with the exception perhaps of blocks NPandQ in Frank Adams that tend to sell out at existing prices?
Yes often when people ask me if I follow football and I reply yes... they are often bemused and quizzical when I tell them my team is Wycombe.
Often they will follow up with "oh oh.... I meant who's your premier league team?"
It winds me up.... I don't support any premier league team. I'm a Wycombe boy born and raised. Currently a south oxon resident in Chinnor.... but Wycome will always ALWAYS be my team....
If ML and Dan Rice' long term plan comes to fruition I will be thoroughly be looking forward to tell anyone who will listen that my prem team is Wycombe Wanderers and I was there supporting them from the late 1990s.
I recently met up after a very long time with three brilliant footballers whom I was with at John Hampden in the mid ‘70’s (Arthur Dunn cup winners no less). All have moved away from the area admittedly but two are now season ticket holders at London Premier League clubs. Lots of footie talk but nothing about Wanderers.
I do recall it was like that back in the day. Yes we all went to the Middlesbrough game but the ‘vibe’ (didn’t call it that of course) was it was all a bit of a laugh and the minnows on the funny pitch with the crap facilities didn’t merit much of our playground headspace beyond that exceptional match. It was only really with St Martin that that changed around the town. Perhaps that unique moment in time and its effect is unrepeatable?
I still don't think that ticket price is THE problem. I have not managed to make a couple of games already this season so offered my season ticket to a pal who has a 10 year old football mad son. He didn't go on both occasions as there was something else football related that son was doing. A tournament, training whatever in the morning which would have meant a mad dash back etc etc.
So I offered the ticket to friends - again for free. Again excuses of varying kinds. And these are people who you would say are football fans.
If the ticket price is zero and there is still push back what can you do? It is not a single issue problem. It is a complex issue that won't be solved by slashing the ticket price. It is the whole 'experience'. A half day out. Transport. Food and drinks. Pressures from elsewhere. Competition from other sporting events. Apathy. Etc
Going back to the MoN era you would say to a pal 'coming to football? what else you gonna do?' and the answer was pretty much nothing. Watching Big Daddy fight Mick McManus or Cat Weasel was about the only competition.
‘It is not a single issue problem. It is a complex issue that won't be solved by slashing the ticket price. It is the whole 'experience'. A half day out. Transport. Food and drinks. Pressures from elsewhere. Competition from other sporting events. Apathy. Etc’
I agree with you, but why do those issues, which must exists everywhere, seem to uniquely affect us?
Ah I got quite misty eyed catching up on this thread. Like the really good old days when we as a club were skint, playing football nobody wanted to watch every week (albeit more than apparently want to watch Bloomball football) and we used to fill in the gaps between dull football games with wonderfully pointless exchanges on here.
Comments
Perceived quality of entertainment is definitely a key factor. The perception of our quality of entertainment (in relation to our style of football) being pretty dire is worryingly widespread and will take time to eradicate.
Sadly, that particular game kicks off at a stupid time and is available live on the red button
That won't be the day the great attendance revival begins unfortunately
The best advert for live football is the f'ing red button. I will have a nervous breakdown with that 'service' before the season is out
Yep, catching up on this thread it's a bizarre point for everyone to get upset by.
Yes you "technically" have to log in on one specific page, but there's a very very obvious place to find the prices on the main website - they're not secret!
On the pricing overall question, with a season ticket there's obviously the pro rata discount and if you pay it yearly you sort of just forget about it.
If you were paying £29-31 each game you'd certainly think this is bloody steep for 3rd tier fare! For the first time in about 2 decades I actually swerved an FA cup game over the price and easy TV viewing.
Good job you made the point about kick-off time for the Posh game (12:30pm). I actually hadn't spotted that and might have been arriving at AP just as the game ended!
To steal from the old Larson cartoon 'What we say to dogs'
What we say to Lomtadze: Ticket prices, access roads, chairlifts, toilets, parking fees, half time refreshments.
What Lomtadze hears: Development squad.
I am with @micra on this one. It will be interesting to see how many of the people who don't attend every game, but will come to an 'important' game will be at Adams Park at 12:30 on the 19th.
I can't manage all games and although I have had a season ticket for the terrace I sometimes upgrade to the Frank Adams.
All that said the Terrace atmosphere was as good as I can remember for five or six years for the Crawley game and it lasted the whole despite the lack of sheer joy in the second half. It felt more cohesive there than it has done for ages. Felt like the crowd was a 12th man. There was a lovely atmosphere at the Memorial Stadium too.
As has been argued previously on this thread there are many factors that go towards individual decisions on whether to watch the game live, pay to watch on TV, not pay to watch on TV, not see the game at all, but quality of the football entertainment and the atmosphere at the ground must be two of the most important.
MB said he wanted fans to look forward to going to matches, I am really pissed off that the Stockport game has been postponed and I am already decidedly looking forward to the 19th - even though I haven't yet started the Attendance Prediction thread.
You're arguing something that @DevC made up just to be @DevC . As already pointed out, @frequentstander said "on the tickets site", not on the main site. It wasn't even his main point, it was just the thing that @DevC picked up on and then changed into something else entirely so he could feel like a big man by telling someone on the internet that they're wrong.
Personally, I have no dog in this fight. It just annoys the shit out of me when someone makes up bullshit about what another poster said and then spends two pages arguing against the thing they made up, when they could have just read it properly in the first place.
And now he's got you lot going "I agree with @DevC" about the thing that @DevC made up. Of course you do, he made it up.
Didn’t this happen quite a while back. Seem to recall the “Blues Card” allowed a discount on 5/10 matches that could be used at any home game. I’ve been in NI for over 20 years now so I’m going back quite a way for this.
I should let you do the talking for me more often! Thank you.
Many of you keep suggesting that people will read the ticket prices - yes that is what people will do. But do new users or extremely infrequent users know what a Frank Adams is. Where’s the family stand? Beechdean? Terrace? It’s a minor point but you do have to log in to suss all of that out - and then you have to cross reference against the 30+ price points again to make an informed decision. Many customers / fans at this point have lost interest.
Like @drcongo said, this wasn’t even a key point for me. The main point is that our attendances recently are dross and the pricing is contributing to that.
Interesting article on Cheltenham Town this morning who are facing similar challenges - https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/cheltenham-town-league-two-waiting-miracle-3312010
Going back about 12-13 years when my son played for a local youth football team, on his first day at training the coach was talking to him and asked him what team he supported, he replied “Wycombe Wanderers” , the coach looked at me and said “doesn’t he support a proper football team?” My son trained in a Wycombe shirt, all the other kids trained in premier league tops. All the football talk amongst the other Dads was about various ( mainly London based) premier league teams and matches, I was an outsider because I was the only parent who followed Wycombe and the only parent who regularly went to live matches. The other Dads assumed League 1or 2 was just hit and hope and would never consider attending a Wycombe match. This from a group of football enthusiasts around Flackwell and Bourne End with a pro league team on their doorstep. We were the odd couple as we supported Wycombe Wanderers.
To be fair @frequentstander when you described the current method of communicating pricing as shocking and terribly wrong, it felt like it was an important point for you. I guess that's the trouble with electronic compared to face to face communication. Sometimes hard to determine intended nuance.
Anyway my interest was piqued so I did a bit of research and discovered the following. A google search for Wycombe tickets takes you to this page Tickets - Wycombe Wanderers (wwfc.com) from which how to book and prices is clearly communicated. This seems to be what the club intends. If you use Yahoo or Bing you can jump this page if you click on "Wycombe Wanderers Ticket Office - C&R robotticket". I think most people would click on the second item called "tickets -wycombe wanderers. understand Google has about 95% of the UK search engine market.
I did check also what other clubs do. Some do take you straight to the ticketing stage where you are expected to click on an available seat and then the price for that seat pops up. Presumably new users are then expected to click on seats in other parts of the stadium to see if there are cheaper options. Have to say I prefer our system but I suppose that is a matter of opinion and personal choice.
In terms of your idea to apply differential pricing to Tuesday games, I don't think it would work if the aim is to maximise revenues for the reasons I outlined above. Airlines for example do you use dynamic pricing but not really to address the problem you are seeking to address but rather to address different market segments. If you disagree I would be interested to hear your logic.
Your opinion is that our prices are too high and that is supressing attendances. Not sure there is evidence to back that up - home fan attendances (sorry Eric I phrased it badly above) are similar this season to last and honestly I am not convinced that dropping prices in any or all category by say 20% would generate the 20% increase in attendance in that category necessary to break even from a revenue perspective.
I don't like it when those unable to defend themselves are accused of doing a bad job especially when that is expressed as fact rather than opinion and from a position of apparent expertise. My instinct is to defend them if I think the criticism is unfair and there is a risk that that in my view incorrect opinion is in danger of becoming an "accepted fact" but always seeking to challenge the idea not the person. I try not to but sometimes instinct takes over. Apologies if you or others were offended.
Didn't our attendances dip at the start of last season though? I'm sure I recall that was the case as we went through the post-Ainsworth blip, poor form and continued cost of living pressures. Surely it'd be better to compare to 22/23, not 23/24?
Pretty sure the average attendance at AP for 23/24 was about 13% down on 22/23.
My ageing memory struggles to remember two weeks ago let alone two years ago. Honestly don't know.
The new CEO chappie seems pretty switched on. I am sure they will be reviewing pricing for next season based on all the available evidence with a view to maximising revenues short and medium term. Not sure, notwithstanding MK Dons actions, it is really practical to change prices midseason when a significant part of the customer base has already locked in for the season. What that will look like time will tell. Perhaps it depends a little on what division we are in by then.
Does that make @DevC a disputatious eristic?
You simply DO NOT have to log in to suss that out.
You go to https://www.wwfc.com/tickets/prices/ and that shows prices, explains how to book and has a stadium plan.
If someone can't keep the interest to do that, you really aren't going to find a better way to entice them.
You could simplify pricing, but would that mean cutting out child/young adult / mid adult / senior prices?
As those are what add a lot of extra pricing to the grid.
Or would you make it a blanket £20 adult anywhere, £10 kid anywhere, £5 OAP anywhere?
You probably wouldn't.
No but I would bring the price of beer down in the Vere.......
I'd change the £18 required for my twelve year old in the Frank Adams...
Saw one guy with 3 young kids on a front row of the Frank Adams last game. That must have been an expensive day out!
We need to introduce family tickets at a reasonable price to encourage parents to bring their children along. Also, free children games for under 12s or maybe quid a kid games.
Do you feel it is the price of £5 that is too high or is the restriction of that price to one area of the ground the issue. If we are not in the Championship next year, would it be sensible to extend this price to all areas of the ground with the exception perhaps of blocks NPandQ in Frank Adams that tend to sell out at existing prices?
Yes often when people ask me if I follow football and I reply yes... they are often bemused and quizzical when I tell them my team is Wycombe.
Often they will follow up with "oh oh.... I meant who's your premier league team?"
It winds me up.... I don't support any premier league team. I'm a Wycombe boy born and raised. Currently a south oxon resident in Chinnor.... but Wycome will always ALWAYS be my team....
If ML and Dan Rice' long term plan comes to fruition I will be thoroughly be looking forward to tell anyone who will listen that my prem team is Wycombe Wanderers and I was there supporting them from the late 1990s.
Let's see where we are in 20+ years...
I recently met up after a very long time with three brilliant footballers whom I was with at John Hampden in the mid ‘70’s (Arthur Dunn cup winners no less). All have moved away from the area admittedly but two are now season ticket holders at London Premier League clubs. Lots of footie talk but nothing about Wanderers.
I do recall it was like that back in the day. Yes we all went to the Middlesbrough game but the ‘vibe’ (didn’t call it that of course) was it was all a bit of a laugh and the minnows on the funny pitch with the crap facilities didn’t merit much of our playground headspace beyond that exceptional match. It was only really with St Martin that that changed around the town. Perhaps that unique moment in time and its effect is unrepeatable?
I still don't think that ticket price is THE problem. I have not managed to make a couple of games already this season so offered my season ticket to a pal who has a 10 year old football mad son. He didn't go on both occasions as there was something else football related that son was doing. A tournament, training whatever in the morning which would have meant a mad dash back etc etc.
So I offered the ticket to friends - again for free. Again excuses of varying kinds. And these are people who you would say are football fans.
If the ticket price is zero and there is still push back what can you do? It is not a single issue problem. It is a complex issue that won't be solved by slashing the ticket price. It is the whole 'experience'. A half day out. Transport. Food and drinks. Pressures from elsewhere. Competition from other sporting events. Apathy. Etc
Going back to the MoN era you would say to a pal 'coming to football? what else you gonna do?' and the answer was pretty much nothing. Watching Big Daddy fight Mick McManus or Cat Weasel was about the only competition.
‘It is not a single issue problem. It is a complex issue that won't be solved by slashing the ticket price. It is the whole 'experience'. A half day out. Transport. Food and drinks. Pressures from elsewhere. Competition from other sporting events. Apathy. Etc’
I agree with you, but why do those issues, which must exists everywhere, seem to uniquely affect us?
I'd definitely pay to watch Big Daddy fight Catweazle.
Ah I got quite misty eyed catching up on this thread. Like the really good old days when we as a club were skint, playing football nobody wanted to watch every week (albeit more than apparently want to watch Bloomball football) and we used to fill in the gaps between dull football games with wonderfully pointless exchanges on here.
Happy days!