Sounds like an unwelcome development, and the thin end of the wedge to me.
As many teams these days seem to operate with three kits, it should be that the second kit prevents a clash of colours, and the third kit prevents a clash of patterns.
The inclusivity thing here is nonsense, that's precisely what the third kit is for. As a thought experiment, if we had the red quarters as a second strip and a third of all yellow, is there a single fixture in the season where we or our opponent would need this rule in place?
Having brought the "gold" kit this season, and done 11 aways, but probably only seeing us actually play in it about twice, I wonder what the lowest ever wearing of an away kit (sorry..."change" kit, before some ranters storm on) is?
I admit no knowledge in this area, but never knew the colour blindness thing was such a major issue to be honest. And don't different people have different variants? Would they all have to fill in a form every game? I'm not sure how it would work. If you are a Blues fan and you know we play in the quarters at home...is it really that hard to work out who is who?
Red/green colour blindness accounts for the vast majority of all colour blindness, which in total affects 1 in 12 men and 1 in 200 women. So yeah, it is common. Our blue kit could clash with someone wearing a red shirt for some red/green colour blind people, in that the red would become a muddy colour that is harder to distinguish. But of course, you just have a well chosen 3rd kit and everything is fine.
To be clear, it's not really colour blindness for the majority but colour perception deficiency. I'm red/green deficient but can tell you what is red and green. It's when one drifts into the wishy washy shades that the difficulty begins. Lower light conditions also can add to the issues. Generally, I need bold colours/patterns to ensure clear perception, the often popular 'shades' are a bit of a nightmare. Folk with full colour perception will see a clear colour differential with shades whereas things like the shaded 'white' emulsion paints all look the same to me. I'm not even going to start on the horrendous wet sand kit!
Whilst I accept that being colourblind is a legitimate condition, and I am all for the EFL helping out if required - I have NEVER heard any complaints from the colourblind folk.
"bloody awful that game - couldn't tell who was who"
"ah shit - another own goal, what's he doing?"
"where the hell is the pitch????"
Surely having lived with the condition all their lives', those unfortunate enough to be colourblind must have adapted their methods/sensitivity to differentiate between shades. It's all they have ever known.
I think it should only apply to when teams where the same "pattern" and should be at the clubs' discretion - i.e. stripes vs stripes.
"“We know that, statistically, at least one player in every male squad is colour blind and these regulation changes will make some ties easier for these players too, thereby improving overall performance of the teams. If this regulation change is approved, it will be for everyone’s benefit" - have these colourblind players ever complained?
Does it mean that John Cornforth was colourblind then?
I mentioned traffic lights earlier, and that's why the colours are at different heights....so you can see the position, and not making a gamble on something being red or green if you can't tell the difference!
Traffic lights are not an issue as they follow a well known pattern and the order the lights never changes...
A good non-football example of a nightmare for those with colour blindness was the Wales Ireland 6 Nations game where to those affected both sides were wearing a very very similar muddy concrete coloured kit.
Given the incidence of colour blindness roughly 500 people out of a crowd of 6,000 would have some level of issue
Thank you @thecatwwfc, I see that @Malone beat me to it. I (we colour definition afflicted) appreciate your apology and perspective although no real need as I kicked the argument off in my post. COYBGR?
I’m red green deficient and relatively high level , it’s not that we don’t see colours it’s the shades . If I was playing snooker the brown ball amongst the reds at the closest end of the table is obviously different. The other end the brown disappears and mixes with red . So distance is the issue which at football matches can have a bearing . Hope this helps people to understand how it can be really frustrating at times
There was really interesting Podcast on the excellent Price of Football pod a while ago (one of the presenters is colour blind)
It sounded that there is far more research being done by kit manufacturers into this these days. For example when designing a kit, they are now doing so against real football backgrounds rather than just a white screen to see what the impact of their the kit is in real life, and how visible it is for players in a match scenario.
This is partially to improve the spectacle for TV viewers and also as a ‘marginal gain’ for players. As common forms of colour blindness affects 1 in 12 men, generally you will have one player who it affects. If the colour/pattern of a kit allows that player to see a pass/assess some danger half a second earlier, this feels like it can really make a difference.
All that said, as a Wycombe fan i still want to see is in light and dark blue quarters as much as possible
@Rasputin people laughed at Fergie when they had that grey kit excuse a few years ago, but it seems pretty obvious that certain colours don't stand out as well against backdrops of crowds.
High vis surely works the best, yet you don't get many teams wearing hi vis for home kits, only either the keeper, or the away teams.
Comments
Sounds like an unwelcome development, and the thin end of the wedge to me.
As many teams these days seem to operate with three kits, it should be that the second kit prevents a clash of colours, and the third kit prevents a clash of patterns.
Shirts and skins - commercial wildfire
The cynic would suggest they're trying to sneak a rule in on a "diversity" type setting, when really it's for financial reasons.
This has now been approved ... Shame.
Another move to potentially dilute clubs' identities.
I'm not sure what's bad about making the game more inclusive but hey ho
The inclusivity thing here is nonsense, that's precisely what the third kit is for. As a thought experiment, if we had the red quarters as a second strip and a third of all yellow, is there a single fixture in the season where we or our opponent would need this rule in place?
Having brought the "gold" kit this season, and done 11 aways, but probably only seeing us actually play in it about twice, I wonder what the lowest ever wearing of an away kit (sorry..."change" kit, before some ranters storm on) is?
It's not just colour, patterns clashing can be a nightmare for colour-blind people too
But our charter prob limits us a bit here doesn't it?
That's why I specified a plain yellow strip for the third kit. There's no possible fixture where this would be necessary.
I admit no knowledge in this area, but never knew the colour blindness thing was such a major issue to be honest. And don't different people have different variants? Would they all have to fill in a form every game? I'm not sure how it would work. If you are a Blues fan and you know we play in the quarters at home...is it really that hard to work out who is who?
Just out of interest what colour are our quartered shirts to a colour blind person.
I'm all for making the two kits easier to distinguish. Also goalie kits seem to not follow the same clash rules
Assume it must be one of these fairly high numbers things for designers to have made traffic lights different levels as well as different colours?
Could have been carnage having green-red colour blindness otherwise!
It varies depending on the type of colour blindness you have, you can can upload a picture of us here and see.
The only CB types that cause an issue for the blue are extremely rare.
Red/green colour blindness accounts for the vast majority of all colour blindness, which in total affects 1 in 12 men and 1 in 200 women. So yeah, it is common. Our blue kit could clash with someone wearing a red shirt for some red/green colour blind people, in that the red would become a muddy colour that is harder to distinguish. But of course, you just have a well chosen 3rd kit and everything is fine.
Thanks for that @drcongo did not realise it was so common.
To be clear, it's not really colour blindness for the majority but colour perception deficiency. I'm red/green deficient but can tell you what is red and green. It's when one drifts into the wishy washy shades that the difficulty begins. Lower light conditions also can add to the issues. Generally, I need bold colours/patterns to ensure clear perception, the often popular 'shades' are a bit of a nightmare. Folk with full colour perception will see a clear colour differential with shades whereas things like the shaded 'white' emulsion paints all look the same to me. I'm not even going to start on the horrendous wet sand kit!
Whilst I accept that being colourblind is a legitimate condition, and I am all for the EFL helping out if required - I have NEVER heard any complaints from the colourblind folk.
"bloody awful that game - couldn't tell who was who"
"ah shit - another own goal, what's he doing?"
"where the hell is the pitch????"
Surely having lived with the condition all their lives', those unfortunate enough to be colourblind must have adapted their methods/sensitivity to differentiate between shades. It's all they have ever known.
I think it should only apply to when teams where the same "pattern" and should be at the clubs' discretion - i.e. stripes vs stripes.
"“We know that, statistically, at least one player in every male squad is colour blind and these regulation changes will make some ties easier for these players too, thereby improving overall performance of the teams. If this regulation change is approved, it will be for everyone’s benefit" - have these colourblind players ever complained?
Does it mean that John Cornforth was colourblind then?
Also - surely traffic lights are a priority over home and away kits??
What do you mean by this?
I mentioned traffic lights earlier, and that's why the colours are at different heights....so you can see the position, and not making a gamble on something being red or green if you can't tell the difference!
Traffic lights are not an issue as they follow a well known pattern and the order the lights never changes...
A good non-football example of a nightmare for those with colour blindness was the Wales Ireland 6 Nations game where to those affected both sides were wearing a very very similar muddy concrete coloured kit.
Given the incidence of colour blindness roughly 500 people out of a crowd of 6,000 would have some level of issue
Apologies @Malone . I didn't read through the thread.
You probably gave a very sensible and legitimate explanation whilst I made a cheap gag. Apologies if I caused any offence.
Quarters will not very often clash 🤷
Thank you @thecatwwfc, I see that @Malone beat me to it. I (we colour definition afflicted) appreciate your apology and perspective although no real need as I kicked the argument off in my post. COYBGR?
I’m red green deficient and relatively high level , it’s not that we don’t see colours it’s the shades . If I was playing snooker the brown ball amongst the reds at the closest end of the table is obviously different. The other end the brown disappears and mixes with red . So distance is the issue which at football matches can have a bearing . Hope this helps people to understand how it can be really frustrating at times
There was really interesting Podcast on the excellent Price of Football pod a while ago (one of the presenters is colour blind)
It sounded that there is far more research being done by kit manufacturers into this these days. For example when designing a kit, they are now doing so against real football backgrounds rather than just a white screen to see what the impact of their the kit is in real life, and how visible it is for players in a match scenario.
This is partially to improve the spectacle for TV viewers and also as a ‘marginal gain’ for players. As common forms of colour blindness affects 1 in 12 men, generally you will have one player who it affects. If the colour/pattern of a kit allows that player to see a pass/assess some danger half a second earlier, this feels like it can really make a difference.
All that said, as a Wycombe fan i still want to see is in light and dark blue quarters as much as possible
@Rasputin people laughed at Fergie when they had that grey kit excuse a few years ago, but it seems pretty obvious that certain colours don't stand out as well against backdrops of crowds.
High vis surely works the best, yet you don't get many teams wearing hi vis for home kits, only either the keeper, or the away teams.
Dortmund in the 90s the only one I can think of. FGR have sort of had hi-vis, but the black kind or cancels that out!
https://www.footyheadlines.com/2021/06/portugal-2022-world-cup-home-kit.html
Does the new Portugal World Cup kit work for the colourblind?
No not really. Needs a gold bar/stripe to break the colours.