@Doob said:
But the flaw in all these ideas are they seem to assume that everyone - singers or not - will sit in their allocated seats. How many games does that happen?
If there were 2 options, "sitting" which were sold starting from row A going up, and "standing" starting from row Z and working down, then it would surely work itself out- if the singers knew that was the case and that they were guaranteed to be able to be in a bloc in the top half, I'm sure there would be minimal problems compared to now.
The main reason for problems with the current arrangement is that there's always more people who want to be in the singing section than tickets- so that section is overfilled and the late arrivals who have tickets for the singing section arrive and can't get in.
@Steve_Peart said: @arnos_grove, to me it looked too square to be a Spit. I suspect it was one of the Duxford Americans. Looking at what flew in their summer show this year , possibly a Republic P-47 Thunderbolt or a Grumman FM2 Wildcat, although that was more Navy. It didn't look like one of their Mustangs. Not that I'm an expert!
It was the P51 Mustang and B-17 Flying fortress, there was a Show at Abingdon
I do know quite a bit about anti-coagulants and beta-blockers though.
Do you know about Isosorbide, Rivaroaban etc etc though?
Talking of heart conditions I have to thank the Oxford steward who helped me down from my seat 'in the gods' when I had a bit of a funny turn after climbing to the high altitude. I went into AFib early in the morning and wasn't going to waste a £25.00 ticket (or whatever it cost) but should have asked to change seat before attempting to climb a mountain.
Just as well I sat at the bottom if every one was going to stand around me and block my view!
@micra said:
How does that simple bit of tech work in the hands of a simple subscriber?
You'd need to buy / subscribe to a VPN first, but then it's pretty much just a case of flicking a switch to trick iFollow or whatever into thinking your outside the UK.
About 40 years ago, the sales manager of a second-hand car dealership on the West Wycombe Road told me that, if I was prepared to be party to a small deception, he could reduce the price slightly. I declined. I have a similar feeling about tricking iFollow, quite apart from the fact that I would probably make a mess of setting it up and ‘flicking a switch’ !
The irony with this "deception" is that you still need to pay for the actual game, so in effect are benefitting the club with your wad.
As opposed to just finding a free stream for other games, where no-one benefits.
Having said that, I'm probably along your lines, don't have the willing or mad skills to bother to go the vpn approach.
I don't have a problem with the VPN work around. I simply cannot travel to a lot of away games and giving 10 quid to the club is not anyone missing out on any revenue, it's someone gaining 10 quid.
Illegal streams is a whole different gig and would not participate for many reasons.
@Steve_Peart said: @arnos_grove, to me it looked too square to be a Spit. I suspect it was one of the Duxford Americans. Looking at what flew in their summer show this year , possibly a Republic P-47 Thunderbolt or a Grumman FM2 Wildcat, although that was more Navy. It didn't look like one of their Mustangs. Not that I'm an expert!
It was the P51 Mustang and B-17 Flying fortress, there was a Show at Abingdon
Thanks for clearing that up @Will_i_ams. A very impressive roll call of aircraft, looking at their web site. Spitfires, Hurricanes, a Yak and the Red Arrows amongst many others. One to look out for next year, if fixtures permit!
This problem, not only at Wycombe, shows just how selfish we are as a society and still have a long way to go. It's two fingers at the establishment and authority. Every man for himself with no thought for others.
Until such a point as safe standing areas are brought back in the stewards and clubs are on a hiding to nothing.
The only way they will ever solve this, whilst having all-seater stadia, is by actually stopping the game. If fans continually refuse to sit down then put points deductions in place.
I love standing at games and would prefer to always do so. However, I appreciate some cannot physically do so for 90 minutes or are too small to see the game.
@Commoner said:
This problem, not only at Wycombe, shows just how selfish we are as a society and still have a long way to go. It's two fingers at the establishment and authority. Every man for himself with no thought for others.
Until such a point as safe standing areas are brought back in the stewards and clubs are on a hiding to nothing.
The only way they will ever solve this, whilst having all-seater stadia, is by actually stopping the game. If fans continually refuse to sit down then put points deductions in place.
I love standing at games and would prefer to always do so. However, I appreciate some cannot physically do so for 90 minutes or are too small to see the game.
I mean if you wanted to have absolutely zero atmosphere at games you could go down that Draconian route, I'm sure we would benefit points wise as we are a club with a relatively small "lively" group as is compared to most clubs of a similar overall size.
Hopefully a reintroduction of standing being allowed higher up will slightly relax the deliberately obtuse way it's handled now on the few games a season it's an issue for us. One of the few pluses of ticket apps should surely be that it's easier to allow people to buy tickets at the front/ back of the stand if they really care that much
I'm not sure there would be "zero" atmosphere if everyone was sat down, I agree that standing tends to feel like there is a better atmosphere.
The sooner safer standing is re-introduced the better so everyone can enjoy the game no matter their preference.
With any rule until there is a serious punishment or good alternative put forward then people will just break it, which is why no-one sits down when asked by stewards etc.
I can understand why those who paid good money for a seat but couldn't see a thing if they were unable to stand or were too short would be upset.
@Commoner said:
I'm not sure there would be "zero" atmosphere if everyone was sat down, I agree that standing tends to feel like there is a better atmosphere.
The sooner safer standing is re-introduced the better so everyone can enjoy the game no matter their preference.
With any rule until there is a serious punishment or good alternative put forward then people will just break it, which is why no-one sits down when asked by stewards etc.
I can understand why those who paid good money for a seat but couldn't see a thing if they were unable to stand or were too short would be upset.
It would soon tend to zero as plenty of the noise makers would stop going if they couldn't have a fun day out with their mates
No one should be put in a position of not being able to watch the game, but personally I would always just move into another seat elsewhere 2 minutes in rather than stay put and moan about it- there were plenty of seats spare on Saturday
No one should be put in a position of not being able to watch the game, but personally I would always just move into another seat elsewhere 2 minutes in rather than stay put and moan about it- there were plenty of seats spare on Saturday
If you are sitting right next to the singing section, as my group were, and around 50 extra people are in the aisles refusing to move and the game has started and there is no room to move away safely even if one wanted to, it is both impossible to see empty seats elsewhere and with an elderly member of the party not wanting to be left without a seat at all.
So not as easy as you suggest.
And anyway why should people abiding by the stewards instructions and correct ticketing be forced to moved through the inconsiderate actions of selfish other people.
There were about 2 empties I could see in the block I was in, but couldn't see swathes of spares at all.
And I was fairly high up and had a decent view.
No one should be put in a position of not being able to watch the game, but personally I would always just move into another seat elsewhere 2 minutes in rather than stay put and moan about it- there were plenty of seats spare on Saturday
If you are sitting right next to the singing section, as my group were, and around 50 extra people are in the aisles refusing to move and the game has started and there is no room to move away safely even if one wanted to, it is both impossible to see empty seats elsewhere and with an elderly member of the party not wanting to be left without a seat at all.
So not as easy as you suggest.
And anyway why should people abiding by the stewards instructions and correct ticketing be forced to moved through the inconsiderate actions of selfish other people.
Agreed.
It reminds me a bit of a season or 2 ago when people who stood behind the goal were being bundled into the hoardings by people conducting "limbs", and a few people suggesting that they "know what'll happen", if they have the absolute cheek to stand there, as if it was their fault.
No one should be put in a position of not being able to watch the game, but personally I would always just move into another seat elsewhere 2 minutes in rather than stay put and moan about it- there were plenty of seats spare on Saturday
If you are sitting right next to the singing section, as my group were, and around 50 extra people are in the aisles refusing to move and the game has started and there is no room to move away safely even if one wanted to, it is both impossible to see empty seats elsewhere and with an elderly member of the party not wanting to be left without a seat at all.
So not as easy as you suggest.
And anyway why should people abiding by the stewards instructions and correct ticketing be forced to moved through the inconsiderate actions of selfish other people.
I completely get that morally you are correct, but practically it still doesn't make any sense to me, the stewards are not going to successfully stop it happening without getting really heavy handed, and that would make things even worse to be around for the match with the atmosphere that would create
Unless everyone in your group is elderly I'd always get someone to look for a set of seats and then move the group to them 5 minutes in, rather than not be able to see the game and feel particularly righteous after.
It's not even like people choose a particularly good seat before hand to get cheesed off about losing so I've found it bizarre when people have preferred to sit and moan rather than swap after 5 minutes when offered or the opportunity arises (not necessarily in your case this time, but what I've experienced in the past).
If there's literally nowhere to move to then obviously there's no choice, but there definitely was on Saturday, and almost always will be because there's always more people than seats in the singing section and we don't sell out allocations.
....cont As someone that goes with a massively varied group of people (and at an inbetween age) I've been in all situations pretty recently, from turning up after a couple too many and not being able to get into a singing section (with a singing section seat) so ended up stood at back in an unofficial one, to being hungover and/ or with people who wanted or needed to sit and having standers in front of me so we've moved.
I personally have found the people unwilling to practically compromise absolute nobs from both sides, just one lot are (partly correctly) self righteous about it, and the others act like drunken idiots, neither help what's often an easily solved problem though. By far the most infuriating I've had was an old guy who insisted on sitting in the back row and swearing at us every time we got off our seat at an away game a few years back despite there being half a stand to choose from, at least there's an obvious reason why the singers want to be where they go.
I do know quite a bit about anti-coagulants and beta-blockers though.
Do you know about Isosorbide, Rivaroaban etc etc though?
Talking of heart conditions I have to thank the Oxford steward who helped me down from my seat 'in the gods' when I had a bit of a funny turn after climbing to the high altitude. I went into AFib early in the morning and wasn't going to waste a £25.00 ticket (or whatever it cost) but should have asked to change seat before attempting to climb a mountain.
Just as well I sat at the bottom if every one was going to stand around me and block my view!
Struggling to remember the context of my post, to be honest Peter, but I was just making a flippant reference to a couple of well-known medications for the elderly. I’m off warfarin since going on to Enzalutamide . Apparently the two don’t get on together so it’s daily jabs of Fragmin. Thighs like pin cushions and belly bruised to ........better not say it !!
Apologies to younger Gasroomers for this obliquely relevant exchange.
The whole thing could have been organised a lot better by both clubs. I have no gripes at all with someone wanting to stand up and this could have been arranged along the back rows very easily. We have this issue every time we play Oxford away.
Loved the 2-1 on your big day out chant ?
Looking on the Oxford forum I see the referee gave us 'everything' and them 'nothing' on Saturday as usual. Which is nice. Why do referees in League Two, League One and the Championship let us get away with it, preventing the ability of great teams to play their expansive stylish football that will ensure them success upon their inevitable promotion?
To be honest I didn’t see Oxford posing much of a threat. I certainly can’t see them making the play-offs or automatic slots. We could have and should have come away with all 3 points. An away point is always good but I felt we let 2 points escape us on Saturday.
BTW - had a lovely cheese burger for £4.50.
Having all 3 age ranges with our purchases standing wasn't an option particularly as behind me were very senior fans that wouldn't have seen beggar all if we did stand. Three lads stood up 2 rows in front, I asked them politely to sit & explained why. They basically told me to fek off. I offered to lamp the gobbiest one right then, as I moved towards them, they all sat down and then 5 minutes later they all moved off. Proving that just sometimes violence, (or the threat of), is the answer, as it cuts out a lot of the middle bit of the negotiation!
As for the match, we couldn't see a lot of the left wing in the 1st half due to the singing section all standing, (which in my opinion was badly thought out and the cause of a lot of the friction), however a point a piece was about right. We could & maybe should have gone in at HT one up, & they had the better of the majority of the 2nd half. As others have noted, they didn't create more than one clear cut chance. Towards the end it just became a battle ground & the ref finally found his cards, too little too late. Should have issued them earlier and the game wouldn't have taken the direction it did. All in all, a point was OK but we certainly felt WWFC could have had all three.
If there is a next year, please could the singers/standers be sold from the back down, it really is common sense.
As mentioned earlier unfortunately the security observation gantry is in the gap between home and away fans and the Oxford stewards want the ‘noisy’ fans close to that so they can watch for trouble hence why ‘singing’ is where it is, despite the potential for goading between the sets of fans.
And they can’t sell by row for the same reason, hence why it is by block. One of the many reasons why their ground is such a desperate place.
@perfidious_albion said:
As mentioned earlier unfortunately the security observation gantry is in the gap between home and away fans and the Oxford stewards want the ‘noisy’ fans close to that so they can watch for trouble hence why ‘singing’ is where it is, despite the potential for goading between the sets of fans.
And they can’t sell by row for the same reason, hence why it is by block. One of the many reasons why their ground is such a desperate place.
If this is true, then how come 2 years back, the singing section was simply the back? Not one particular block?
Comments
If there were 2 options, "sitting" which were sold starting from row A going up, and "standing" starting from row Z and working down, then it would surely work itself out- if the singers knew that was the case and that they were guaranteed to be able to be in a bloc in the top half, I'm sure there would be minimal problems compared to now.
The main reason for problems with the current arrangement is that there's always more people who want to be in the singing section than tickets- so that section is overfilled and the late arrivals who have tickets for the singing section arrive and can't get in.
It was the P51 Mustang and B-17 Flying fortress, there was a Show at Abingdon
Do you know about Isosorbide, Rivaroaban etc etc though?
Talking of heart conditions I have to thank the Oxford steward who helped me down from my seat 'in the gods' when I had a bit of a funny turn after climbing to the high altitude. I went into AFib early in the morning and wasn't going to waste a £25.00 ticket (or whatever it cost) but should have asked to change seat before attempting to climb a mountain.
Just as well I sat at the bottom if every one was going to stand around me and block my view!
I don't have a problem with the VPN work around. I simply cannot travel to a lot of away games and giving 10 quid to the club is not anyone missing out on any revenue, it's someone gaining 10 quid.
Illegal streams is a whole different gig and would not participate for many reasons.
Would add new meaning to let's get Adams Park rocking.
Thanks for clearing that up @Will_i_ams. A very impressive roll call of aircraft, looking at their web site. Spitfires, Hurricanes, a Yak and the Red Arrows amongst many others. One to look out for next year, if fixtures permit!
https://www.abingdonairandcountry.co.uk/whats-on/in-the-air
Oh yes indeed, will be keeping an eye out for next year.
You stand for the National Anthem!
This problem, not only at Wycombe, shows just how selfish we are as a society and still have a long way to go. It's two fingers at the establishment and authority. Every man for himself with no thought for others.
Until such a point as safe standing areas are brought back in the stewards and clubs are on a hiding to nothing.
The only way they will ever solve this, whilst having all-seater stadia, is by actually stopping the game. If fans continually refuse to sit down then put points deductions in place.
I love standing at games and would prefer to always do so. However, I appreciate some cannot physically do so for 90 minutes or are too small to see the game.
I mean if you wanted to have absolutely zero atmosphere at games you could go down that Draconian route, I'm sure we would benefit points wise as we are a club with a relatively small "lively" group as is compared to most clubs of a similar overall size.
Hopefully a reintroduction of standing being allowed higher up will slightly relax the deliberately obtuse way it's handled now on the few games a season it's an issue for us. One of the few pluses of ticket apps should surely be that it's easier to allow people to buy tickets at the front/ back of the stand if they really care that much
I'm not sure there would be "zero" atmosphere if everyone was sat down, I agree that standing tends to feel like there is a better atmosphere.
The sooner safer standing is re-introduced the better so everyone can enjoy the game no matter their preference.
With any rule until there is a serious punishment or good alternative put forward then people will just break it, which is why no-one sits down when asked by stewards etc.
I can understand why those who paid good money for a seat but couldn't see a thing if they were unable to stand or were too short would be upset.
It would soon tend to zero as plenty of the noise makers would stop going if they couldn't have a fun day out with their mates
No one should be put in a position of not being able to watch the game, but personally I would always just move into another seat elsewhere 2 minutes in rather than stay put and moan about it- there were plenty of seats spare on Saturday
If you are sitting right next to the singing section, as my group were, and around 50 extra people are in the aisles refusing to move and the game has started and there is no room to move away safely even if one wanted to, it is both impossible to see empty seats elsewhere and with an elderly member of the party not wanting to be left without a seat at all.
So not as easy as you suggest.
And anyway why should people abiding by the stewards instructions and correct ticketing be forced to moved through the inconsiderate actions of selfish other people.
There were about 2 empties I could see in the block I was in, but couldn't see swathes of spares at all.
And I was fairly high up and had a decent view.
Maybe it was different in other blocks.
Agreed.
It reminds me a bit of a season or 2 ago when people who stood behind the goal were being bundled into the hoardings by people conducting "limbs", and a few people suggesting that they "know what'll happen", if they have the absolute cheek to stand there, as if it was their fault.
I completely get that morally you are correct, but practically it still doesn't make any sense to me, the stewards are not going to successfully stop it happening without getting really heavy handed, and that would make things even worse to be around for the match with the atmosphere that would create
Unless everyone in your group is elderly I'd always get someone to look for a set of seats and then move the group to them 5 minutes in, rather than not be able to see the game and feel particularly righteous after.
It's not even like people choose a particularly good seat before hand to get cheesed off about losing so I've found it bizarre when people have preferred to sit and moan rather than swap after 5 minutes when offered or the opportunity arises (not necessarily in your case this time, but what I've experienced in the past).
If there's literally nowhere to move to then obviously there's no choice, but there definitely was on Saturday, and almost always will be because there's always more people than seats in the singing section and we don't sell out allocations.
....cont As someone that goes with a massively varied group of people (and at an inbetween age) I've been in all situations pretty recently, from turning up after a couple too many and not being able to get into a singing section (with a singing section seat) so ended up stood at back in an unofficial one, to being hungover and/ or with people who wanted or needed to sit and having standers in front of me so we've moved.
I personally have found the people unwilling to practically compromise absolute nobs from both sides, just one lot are (partly correctly) self righteous about it, and the others act like drunken idiots, neither help what's often an easily solved problem though. By far the most infuriating I've had was an old guy who insisted on sitting in the back row and swearing at us every time we got off our seat at an away game a few years back despite there being half a stand to choose from, at least there's an obvious reason why the singers want to be where they go.
Struggling to remember the context of my post, to be honest Peter, but I was just making a flippant reference to a couple of well-known medications for the elderly. I’m off warfarin since going on to Enzalutamide . Apparently the two don’t get on together so it’s daily jabs of Fragmin. Thighs like pin cushions and belly bruised to ........better not say it !!
Apologies to younger Gasroomers for this obliquely relevant exchange.
The whole thing could have been organised a lot better by both clubs. I have no gripes at all with someone wanting to stand up and this could have been arranged along the back rows very easily. We have this issue every time we play Oxford away.
Loved the 2-1 on your big day out chant ?
Oh sit down
Oh sit down
Oh sit down
Sit down next to me
Sit down, sit down, sit down, sit down, down
In sympathy
Looking on the Oxford forum I see the referee gave us 'everything' and them 'nothing' on Saturday as usual. Which is nice. Why do referees in League Two, League One and the Championship let us get away with it, preventing the ability of great teams to play their expansive stylish football that will ensure them success upon their inevitable promotion?
To be honest I didn’t see Oxford posing much of a threat. I certainly can’t see them making the play-offs or automatic slots. We could have and should have come away with all 3 points. An away point is always good but I felt we let 2 points escape us on Saturday.
BTW - had a lovely cheese burger for £4.50.
Having all 3 age ranges with our purchases standing wasn't an option particularly as behind me were very senior fans that wouldn't have seen beggar all if we did stand. Three lads stood up 2 rows in front, I asked them politely to sit & explained why. They basically told me to fek off. I offered to lamp the gobbiest one right then, as I moved towards them, they all sat down and then 5 minutes later they all moved off. Proving that just sometimes violence, (or the threat of), is the answer, as it cuts out a lot of the middle bit of the negotiation!
As for the match, we couldn't see a lot of the left wing in the 1st half due to the singing section all standing, (which in my opinion was badly thought out and the cause of a lot of the friction), however a point a piece was about right. We could & maybe should have gone in at HT one up, & they had the better of the majority of the 2nd half. As others have noted, they didn't create more than one clear cut chance. Towards the end it just became a battle ground & the ref finally found his cards, too little too late. Should have issued them earlier and the game wouldn't have taken the direction it did. All in all, a point was OK but we certainly felt WWFC could have had all three.
If there is a next year, please could the singers/standers be sold from the back down, it really is common sense.
Back down, or at least have the standing block on the other side so no-one is blocked!
Yep, that sounds about perfect!
As mentioned earlier unfortunately the security observation gantry is in the gap between home and away fans and the Oxford stewards want the ‘noisy’ fans close to that so they can watch for trouble hence why ‘singing’ is where it is, despite the potential for goading between the sets of fans.
And they can’t sell by row for the same reason, hence why it is by block. One of the many reasons why their ground is such a desperate place.
If this is true, then how come 2 years back, the singing section was simply the back? Not one particular block?
Because the observation platform is a ‘ground improvement’