It’s worth remembering that we lost the first 7 games, most of which were when both Bayo and Uche were out. When Bayo came back, the statistical difference that he made was significant, such that, as was said at the time, any manager would’ve been foolish to ignore Bayo’s influence on the pitch. His workload then contributed to his ongoing knee problem, which subsequently reduced his effectiveness.
The reasons we are so adrift are plentiful.
Injuries to key players, decisons, signings not making anywhere near the impact we hoped for for various reasons etc
@Malone said:
(Continued) so how would we have resolved all of that? I dare say Bayo and Bloomfield have had a negligible role in our overall likely relegation.
Agreed but it doesn't stop those with axes to grind. I am proud we have a management team who are prepared to show loyalty rather than move on to the next new toy straight away. Both Bayo and Blooms have made valuable contributions this season, their first at this level.
@Malone said:
Yep.
Captain hindsight merchants are no use.
The reasons we are so adrift are plentiful.
Injuries to key players, decisons, signings not making anywhere near the impact we hoped for for various reasons etc
@glasshalffull said:
The law says that a player can be offside if he is ‘Preventing an opponent playing the ball by obstructing his line of vision.’ Admittedly that would be a harsh interpretation in view of Allsop’s positioning, but goals have been disallowed in similar situations. I also see that GA felt Kazim-Richards was offside.
Forest benefited from a decision like this earlier in the season I think. But the ref has to make a quick decision, and the assistant would certainly not feel able to give that, even though he sees K-R in an offside position.
As others have said it is not an offence to stand in an offside position.
I am well aware that being in an offside position is not an offence in itself, which is why I pointed out the part of the law that is more relevant to the incident against Derby. I also said that it would have been a harsh interpretation in this particular case.
@glasshalffull said:
I didn’t blame referees for our league position, I said decisions that have gone against us had ‘contributed’ to our league position. Akinfenwa has hardly figured since Uche’s return to fitness so who would you have selected to lead the attack whilst the latter was out injured?
I suppose the inbalanced squad must lay at the managers door.
As Gareth's direct style dictates that we need to have a powerful frontman.
After Josh's Parker's best performance for the club at Brentford in the league cup, he was dropped. And for whatever reason rarely featured even on the bench until he was shipped out. That left only Akinfenwa if you want to continue to play in the same fashion.
The same imbalance occurs at Left Back, with no cover for an ageing Joe Jacobson, hence we witnessed some horrific performances by McCarthy in that role, which totally exposed his lack of any kind of left foot.
I would have started Nick Freeman and at a push David Stockdale. Why he was not at least tried at centre forward instead of a plainly unfit Bayo while Uche was out I will never know. Obviously upset that Ainsworth? Rob C needs to have a word.
@glasshalffull said:
I didn’t blame referees for our league position, I said decisions that have gone against us had ‘contributed’ to our league position. Akinfenwa has hardly figured since Uche’s return to fitness so who would you have selected to lead the attack whilst the latter was out injured?
I suppose the inbalanced squad must lay at the managers door.
As Gareth's direct style dictates that we need to have a powerful frontman.
After Josh's Parker's best performance for the club at Brentford in the league cup, he was dropped. And for whatever reason rarely featured even on the bench until he was shipped out. That left only Akinfenwa if you want to continue to play in the same fashion.
The same imbalance occurs at Left Back, with no cover for an ageing Joe Jacobson, hence we witnessed some horrific performances by McCarthy in that role, which totally exposed his lack of any kind of left foot.
I want to live in the perfect world when all these things are fixed but unfortunately we were promoted in to our highest league ever via a playoff and built a squad for that league at short notice in a global pandemic with a low base point budget.
Who would you want as manager to correct all these problems? You quite clearly don't rate the current one but continue to skirt around the issue, snipping at the edges.
@glasshalffull said:
I am sure the manager would love to have built a more balanced and talented squad if only he had the budget to do so.
Agree with you on the talent aspect but not the balance. The gamble to have only one left sided player who could do a capable job at left back badly backfired.
Hence why we had to rush to pay a fee for a left back that we could off got for nothing, when he was on trial a few months earlier.
@micra The name MadAmster is an anagram of where I've lived since 1984.
@Chas Harps Martin Taylor is a fans' favourite. Decent keeper. Went further up in our estimation when he was knocked down by Millwall thugs in one of 2 pitch invasions at our '94 playoff semi final 2nd leg game at the Den and simply got back up and carried on. We won 3-1 on the night and 5-1 on aggregate. He's considered among one of our best and those in front of him are keepers like Colin Boulton (2 League titles with us). Shilton and Poom. We like the lad,
@Wendoverman It's the style of play. There are a few sides who play it in this League and they are all in the bottom 10. Pressing and harrying in midfield, not giving the opposition time on the ball. When in possession themselves it's get the ball in the box asap and flood the attacking third with players. Perfectly valid tactics and ones we struggle with. You use it, Rotherham use it and a couple of others as well. We haven't won many points against those teams this season or have struggled as we did against you last Tuesday. I've done well on our GTS competition this year forecasting draws or defeats against teams like Coventry and Boro etc. Rather less well against the top 6 as we've beaten them all except for Watford.
On the refereeing point. Tuesday's swings became Friday's roundabouts as we had a goal wrongly disallowed at Watford. Wisdom was held in a bear hug and couldn't move, their keeper half heartedly goes for the ball, gets nowhere near it and collides with the bear hugged Wisdom and then Kazim nodded it home. I suppose, technically, Wisdom was preventing the keeper getting to the ball but he was being held on to which was the 1st offence so a penalty to us or just play on and it's a goal.
Back to @Wendoverman, I won't hold your Notts connections against you our game at the CG earlier this season. Two goalmouth incidents. Identical incidents. One saw them put the ball in the net, the other saw us put the ball in the net. Theirs was allowed, ours wasn't. What I've noticed, especially at Pride Park, is that we can get kicked up hill and down dale and get awarded the odd free kick. Then one of ours looks too hard at an opponent and it's a free kick and a yellow card. I exaggerate slightly to make the point but that's the gist of it. I've also watched quite a few other SBC games this season and I am not impressed with the standard of refereeing at all. Weirdest thing is that PL refs officiating in the SBC seem worse than the standard SBC refs. I'm not sure they're actually any worse, as such, but that they are used to making a decision, any decision because, if they're wrong, VAR can rectify it. VAR would have had your "offside" goal against us allowed. Our recent 1-0 reverse when the move for the goal started with Gregory being thrown to the floor would have seen the game end 0-0. I could go through 80% of our games this season, maybe more, where referees have affected the scoreline, mainly not in our favour and 2 or 3 games, like last Tuesday's, where they "helped" us. I always go into both dressing rooms before the game. Tell them what i expect from them and what they can expect from me. I also give them a guarantee, I will make mistakes but that I will make less than any individual player on the park. If they don't want me loudly saying how poor a pass was or that I could have scored that with my private parts etc then they should refrain from loudly pointing out mistakes they think I have made. I have only ever done it once, from about 55 minutes into the game I started commenting om poor passes, missed tackles etc from one side that had been on my case from the off. On about 65 minutes their captain came up to me and asked what i thought i was doing and whether I would stop. I reminded him of my pre match comments and he offered me his hand in apology. He then turned to his teammates and shouted "lads, we've been on his case all game, he did tell us beforehand he'd join in......" I saw lightbulbs flash on, on all their faces. No more comments.
@glasshalffull said:
I am sure the manager would love to have built a more balanced and talented squad if only he had the budget to do so.
Agree with you on the talent aspect but not the balance. The gamble to have only one left sided player who could do a capable job at left back badly backfired.
Hence why we had to rush to pay a fee for a left back that we could off got for nothing, when he was on trial a few months earlier.
Was Obita on trial with us? That smacks of genuine incompetence / hubris.
I always go into both dressing rooms before the game. Tell them what i expect from them and what they can expect from me. I also give them a guarantee, I will make mistakes but that I will make less than any individual player on the park. If they don't want me loudly saying how poor a pass was or that I could have scored that with my private parts etc then they should refrain from loudly pointing out mistakes they think I have made. I have only ever done it once, from about 55 minutes into the game I started commenting om poor passes, missed tackles etc from one side that had been on my case from the off. On about 65 minutes their captain came up to me and asked what i thought i was doing and whether I would stop.
Good luck today at the Den today.
In my playing days, the occasional ref used to say this. Always went down well I think, as it showed the ref isn't just some arrogant little power mad wretch unable to accept mistakes.
Would have loved to have witnessed you commentating on the crap play around him though!!
@glasshalffull said:
I am sure the manager would love to have built a more balanced and talented squad if only he had the budget to do so.
Agree with you on the talent aspect but not the balance. The gamble to have only one left sided player who could do a capable job at left back badly backfired.
Hence why we had to rush to pay a fee for a left back that we could off got for nothing, when he was on trial a few months earlier.
Was Obita on trial with us? That smacks of genuine incompetence / hubris.
McCarthy was desperate to come back and was thought to be a good cover option at RB/LB/CB or midfield. With limited funds and JJ a mainstay you could see why they went with him as cover. As it turned out he has been awful when played out there.
Maskell was released, Sido who had done an ok job at left back was deemed surplus to requirements.
It seems strange that in McCarthys previous spells, that his non existent left foot, wasnt taken into consideration, when cover for JJ was being taken into account.
Was Obita on trial with us? That smacks of genuine incompetence / hubris.
You have no idea of the circumstances at the time. Perhaps Obita’s wage demands were too high, perhaps Oxford offered him more first team opportunities, perhaps Gareth felt his budget could be better spent on other players.
Was Obita on trial with us? That smacks of genuine incompetence / hubris.
You have no idea of the circumstances at the time. Perhaps Obita’s wage demands were too high, perhaps Oxford offered him more first team opportunities, perhaps Gareth felt his budget could be better spent on other players.
Do you think Obita's wage demands are lower now that he's signed from money from Oxford when we were desperate? Do you think Gareth's budget could have gone further if we'd signed Obita from his trial without paying for him rather than paying a fee to Oxford? Do you think it was sensible to play half a season with only one left back in the first team squad?
Was Obita on trial with us? That smacks of genuine incompetence / hubris.
You have no idea of the circumstances at the time. Perhaps Obita’s wage demands were too high, perhaps Oxford offered him more first team opportunities, perhaps Gareth felt his budget could be better spent on other players.
Do you think Obita's wage demands are lower now that he's signed from money from Oxford when we were desperate? Do you think Gareth's budget could have gone further if we'd signed Obita from his trial without paying for him rather than paying a fee to Oxford? Do you think it was sensible to play half a season with only one left back in the first team squad?
You seem to creep further into marlow chair heavy bias/conspiracy mode by the week.
Was Obita on trial with us? That smacks of genuine incompetence / hubris.
You have no idea of the circumstances at the time. Perhaps Obita’s wage demands were too high, perhaps Oxford offered him more first team opportunities, perhaps Gareth felt his budget could be better spent on other players.
Do you think Obita's wage demands are lower now that he's signed from money from Oxford when we were desperate? Do you think Gareth's budget could have gone further if we'd signed Obita from his trial without paying for him rather than paying a fee to Oxford? Do you think it was sensible to play half a season with only one left back in the first team squad?
You seem to creep further into marlow chair heavy bias/conspiracy mode by the week.
Was Obita on trial with us? That smacks of genuine incompetence / hubris.
You have no idea of the circumstances at the time. Perhaps Obita’s wage demands were too high, perhaps Oxford offered him more first team opportunities, perhaps Gareth felt his budget could be better spent on other players.
Do you think Obita's wage demands are lower now that he's signed from money from Oxford when we were desperate? Do you think Gareth's budget could have gone further if we'd signed Obita from his trial without paying for him rather than paying a fee to Oxford? Do you think it was sensible to play half a season with only one left back in the first team squad?
You seem to creep further into marlow chair heavy bias/conspiracy mode by the week.
Was Obita on trial with us? That smacks of genuine incompetence / hubris.
You have no idea of the circumstances at the time. Perhaps Obita’s wage demands were too high, perhaps Oxford offered him more first team opportunities, perhaps Gareth felt his budget could be better spent on other players.
Do you think Obita's wage demands are lower now that he's signed from money from Oxford when we were desperate? Do you think Gareth's budget could have gone further if we'd signed Obita from his trial without paying for him rather than paying a fee to Oxford? Do you think it was sensible to play half a season with only one left back in the first team squad?
You seem to creep further into marlow chair heavy bias/conspiracy mode by the week.
All sent for recycling @Malone. T’internet is a great substitute. All that remains is a 1375 page Good Classical CD Guide published by Gramophone magazine in 2003 and not referred to for at least ten years! Free to a good home!
Comments
It’s worth remembering that we lost the first 7 games, most of which were when both Bayo and Uche were out. When Bayo came back, the statistical difference that he made was significant, such that, as was said at the time, any manager would’ve been foolish to ignore Bayo’s influence on the pitch. His workload then contributed to his ongoing knee problem, which subsequently reduced his effectiveness.
Yep.
Captain hindsight merchants are no use.
The reasons we are so adrift are plentiful.
Injuries to key players, decisons, signings not making anywhere near the impact we hoped for for various reasons etc
(Continued) so how would we have resolved all of that? I dare say Bayo and Bloomfield have had a negligible role in our overall likely relegation.
Agreed but it doesn't stop those with axes to grind. I am proud we have a management team who are prepared to show loyalty rather than move on to the next new toy straight away. Both Bayo and Blooms have made valuable contributions this season, their first at this level.
A shitstorm of if onlys
Agreed
I suppose the inbalanced squad must lay at the managers door.
As Gareth's direct style dictates that we need to have a powerful frontman.
After Josh's Parker's best performance for the club at Brentford in the league cup, he was dropped. And for whatever reason rarely featured even on the bench until he was shipped out. That left only Akinfenwa if you want to continue to play in the same fashion.
The same imbalance occurs at Left Back, with no cover for an ageing Joe Jacobson, hence we witnessed some horrific performances by McCarthy in that role, which totally exposed his lack of any kind of left foot.
I would have started Nick Freeman and at a push David Stockdale. Why he was not at least tried at centre forward instead of a plainly unfit Bayo while Uche was out I will never know. Obviously upset that Ainsworth? Rob C needs to have a word.
I am sure the manager would love to have built a more balanced and talented squad if only he had the budget to do so.
I want to live in the perfect world when all these things are fixed but unfortunately we were promoted in to our highest league ever via a playoff and built a squad for that league at short notice in a global pandemic with a low base point budget.
Who would you want as manager to correct all these problems? You quite clearly don't rate the current one but continue to skirt around the issue, snipping at the edges.
Agree with you on the talent aspect but not the balance. The gamble to have only one left sided player who could do a capable job at left back badly backfired.
Hence why we had to rush to pay a fee for a left back that we could off got for nothing, when he was on trial a few months earlier.
I'll try to answer all the comments.....
@micra The name MadAmster is an anagram of where I've lived since 1984.
@Chas Harps Martin Taylor is a fans' favourite. Decent keeper. Went further up in our estimation when he was knocked down by Millwall thugs in one of 2 pitch invasions at our '94 playoff semi final 2nd leg game at the Den and simply got back up and carried on. We won 3-1 on the night and 5-1 on aggregate. He's considered among one of our best and those in front of him are keepers like Colin Boulton (2 League titles with us). Shilton and Poom. We like the lad,
@Wendoverman It's the style of play. There are a few sides who play it in this League and they are all in the bottom 10. Pressing and harrying in midfield, not giving the opposition time on the ball. When in possession themselves it's get the ball in the box asap and flood the attacking third with players. Perfectly valid tactics and ones we struggle with. You use it, Rotherham use it and a couple of others as well. We haven't won many points against those teams this season or have struggled as we did against you last Tuesday. I've done well on our GTS competition this year forecasting draws or defeats against teams like Coventry and Boro etc. Rather less well against the top 6 as we've beaten them all except for Watford.
On the refereeing point. Tuesday's swings became Friday's roundabouts as we had a goal wrongly disallowed at Watford. Wisdom was held in a bear hug and couldn't move, their keeper half heartedly goes for the ball, gets nowhere near it and collides with the bear hugged Wisdom and then Kazim nodded it home. I suppose, technically, Wisdom was preventing the keeper getting to the ball but he was being held on to which was the 1st offence so a penalty to us or just play on and it's a goal.
Back to @Wendoverman, I won't hold your Notts connections against you
our game at the CG earlier this season. Two goalmouth incidents. Identical incidents. One saw them put the ball in the net, the other saw us put the ball in the net. Theirs was allowed, ours wasn't. What I've noticed, especially at Pride Park, is that we can get kicked up hill and down dale and get awarded the odd free kick. Then one of ours looks too hard at an opponent and it's a free kick and a yellow card. I exaggerate slightly to make the point but that's the gist of it. I've also watched quite a few other SBC games this season and I am not impressed with the standard of refereeing at all. Weirdest thing is that PL refs officiating in the SBC seem worse than the standard SBC refs. I'm not sure they're actually any worse, as such, but that they are used to making a decision, any decision because, if they're wrong, VAR can rectify it. VAR would have had your "offside" goal against us allowed. Our recent 1-0 reverse when the move for the goal started with Gregory being thrown to the floor would have seen the game end 0-0. I could go through 80% of our games this season, maybe more, where referees have affected the scoreline, mainly not in our favour and 2 or 3 games, like last Tuesday's, where they "helped" us. I always go into both dressing rooms before the game. Tell them what i expect from them and what they can expect from me. I also give them a guarantee, I will make mistakes but that I will make less than any individual player on the park. If they don't want me loudly saying how poor a pass was or that I could have scored that with my private parts etc then they should refrain from loudly pointing out mistakes they think I have made. I have only ever done it once, from about 55 minutes into the game I started commenting om poor passes, missed tackles etc from one side that had been on my case from the off. On about 65 minutes their captain came up to me and asked what i thought i was doing and whether I would stop. I reminded him of my pre match comments and he offered me his hand in apology. He then turned to his teammates and shouted "lads, we've been on his case all game, he did tell us beforehand he'd join in......" I saw lightbulbs flash on, on all their faces. No more comments.
Good luck today at the Den today.
Was Obita on trial with us? That smacks of genuine incompetence / hubris.
I always go into both dressing rooms before the game. Tell them what i expect from them and what they can expect from me. I also give them a guarantee, I will make mistakes but that I will make less than any individual player on the park. If they don't want me loudly saying how poor a pass was or that I could have scored that with my private parts etc then they should refrain from loudly pointing out mistakes they think I have made. I have only ever done it once, from about 55 minutes into the game I started commenting om poor passes, missed tackles etc from one side that had been on my case from the off. On about 65 minutes their captain came up to me and asked what i thought i was doing and whether I would stop.
In my playing days, the occasional ref used to say this. Always went down well I think, as it showed the ref isn't just some arrogant little power mad wretch unable to accept mistakes.
Would have loved to have witnessed you commentating on the crap play around him though!!
Another superb and much appreciated post @Amsterdam.
Allsop injured in training - Stockdale recalled
Wrong matchday thread, sorry.
McCarthy was desperate to come back and was thought to be a good cover option at RB/LB/CB or midfield. With limited funds and JJ a mainstay you could see why they went with him as cover. As it turned out he has been awful when played out there.
Maskell was released, Sido who had done an ok job at left back was deemed surplus to requirements.
It seems strange that in McCarthys previous spells, that his non existent left foot, wasnt taken into consideration, when cover for JJ was being taken into account.
You have no idea of the circumstances at the time. Perhaps Obita’s wage demands were too high, perhaps Oxford offered him more first team opportunities, perhaps Gareth felt his budget could be better spent on other players.
Hubris = excessive or misplaced confidence or optimism. I had to look it up.
Do you think Obita's wage demands are lower now that he's signed from money from Oxford when we were desperate? Do you think Gareth's budget could have gone further if we'd signed Obita from his trial without paying for him rather than paying a fee to Oxford? Do you think it was sensible to play half a season with only one left back in the first team squad?
You know best so I’ll leave it to the expert.
You seem to creep further into marlow chair heavy bias/conspiracy mode by the week.
Wasn't @marlowchair regularly proved right?
Was hard to tell amongst the conjecture and spin.
In much the same way as Derek Acorah was.
Derek Acorah ? What kind of conjecture and spin did he conjure up. Too obscure for me but my curiosity knows no bounds !
I can imagine you're the type of guy who has a fair few dictionaries dotting about at home.
All sent for recycling @Malone. T’internet is a great substitute. All that remains is a 1375 page Good Classical CD Guide published by Gramophone magazine in 2003 and not referred to for at least ten years! Free to a good home!