Fully agree with this. I don't think Hagelskjaer is an issue given the immense quality and form of the three players in front of him. He'd probably have played a lot more if Taylor hadn't unexpectedly become available again at the end of January.
It's Westergaard that worries, given that Leahy and Bakinson are getting in the squad ahead of him. They are lower League One players, and you'd hope he's better than that given the amount we spent
They were signed now for now, there's nothing in the chase for these players, their ages or previous achievements that suggests they were prospects we had to buy now to deter others or that they are solely for the Championship. If you look at the three who actually play : Bradley, Norris and Xavi they are the ones with Championship experience.
The coach either wants to go slowly slowly with any changes at the risk of us becoming a bit stale (unlikely because most have been seen and a couple now play regularly), he genuinely doesn't rate them or just isn't happy with their fitness or efforts in training.
No point buying players with an eye on the championship and then not using them when you need help to get there.
I wonder if Rice just took over all recruitment when it was clear Blooms was off to win over some fans and some of the data and sense checking went missing.
If the Danes can’t get into the squad now because better players are ahead of them but are there for the championship, then it doesn’t bode well for our championship squad unless we expect to spend in the transfer market- in which case why did we buy them now?
The good thing about the transfers pre being data led was that all of them, every single time hit the ground running and were as good as whatever manager thought they would be at the time of signing.
wait, what? You mean there were some players signed that weren’t as good as people thought they would be before we were data led and some players won’t be as good as people think they will be, after we’re data led?
what witch craft is this? I thought data led was going to be the silver bullet that got it right 100% of the time (said no one ever. Not even DR)
All signings have always been “data led” btw.
Previously it was human gathered data - that’s what scouting teams did. Now it’s statistical data (which would have been put onto a computer largely from said human gathered data and, arguable could come from a much MUCH larger group of independent and in house scouting teams not just from your area, but across the country/europe/theworld.).
In terms of the central defender, probably because Taylor will go back to West Brom, Bradley will go back to Derby (in any case he is 34 next year) and Low is leaving at the end of his contract.
It is quite a bizarre situation to break the transfer record twice and both players can’t even get in the matchday squad. With Simon’s out for 3 games we’ll get an indication if Dodds rates Magnus as he should at least be on the bench.
Totally agree that you would be hard pressed to replace most of our first 11 however much we've shelled out but having a young wide player or a higher quality (I assume) midfielder on the bench as 'finishers' would be nice. All academic if we win the two before the big game against Wrexham of course!
bringing improved squad quality into the building may push current players to up their game - competition for places etc. After all some of the squad players we have had in the past were hardly pushing the first choice eleven.
how well does the data driven analysis factor in the possible lower quality of certain leagues. Were the Danes playing at Champ / League One level when racking up their stats?
For me, the most interesting thing about all of this is why the data seems to have been so wrong. They were two professional footballers regularly doing their job (presumably pretty well) at a competitive level of football. I will accept a week or two to get up to match fitness and a little bit of adapting to a new environment but after this length of time not to get near the first team (by any reasonable reading of MD's comments) suggests that their abilities and qualities that were apparent in their previous employment haven't (yet) translated into abilities and qualities that (presumably) our data said would be good for League 1 football in England & Wales.
I will repeat my previous comment, if you think just because he cost a bit of money the Danish Centre half should come straight in, who would you drop out of Low and Taylor and presumably bin Bradley all together?
I get your point @mooneyman but that does not alter the fact (for me) that it's strange that a centreback who probably cost more (I don't have the figures I know) and is presumably paid more than our whole back line can't get in the team, or on the bench ahead of 34 year old loan player. (And I think Bradley has been excellent for us.) It's a question we are allowed to ask without it revealing our lack of understanding of the game.
I think the answer may in part be that we didn't think Taylor was coming back hence needed another central defender.
I also think having spent many years picking up freebies and begging bigger clubs for loanees, we as supporters have yet to become accustomed to the real financial world of football. The two Danes didn't cost a fortune when compared to what other top level League 1 clubs have paid. Didn't Huddersfield pay £3m for 1 player in the recent window and Wrexham and Birmingham have spent real money. The current market values of Low and Taylor would, I suspect, far exceed what we paid for the Danes.
The fact that we can turn down a £7m offer for a player that has only played 18 months at this level, highlights the real world we are now entering.
i think Westergaard looked good but rusty. Given the amount of players we have, we are in a position to allow them to effectively do a full 4-6 week pre-season and then come into the squad. A luxury we would not have been able to do in the past.
It’s exactly 6 weeks since he signed and I reckon he will be in the squad Tuesday night and will have a big impact on our run in.
Anders may not dislodge our current three but assume if we move to a back three he may come onto the bench.
I was surprised when the two Danish lads appeared at Wycombe. My thoughts were one played in the Danish premier league, the other from Norways’s equivalent league. I would suggest, with respect to both, the leagues’ standard of football I would rate at low Championship league level at best and that is a generous assement. A bit of research on games played by clubs from these leagues in the European cup competitions indicate a lack of quality in these leagues. Obviously data researched will relate to performances in league matches played. In the two inferior leagues. The figures ‘ flatter to deceive ‘. I am suprised we spend loads of cash on them. I would be more than happy to be proven wrong on these two in the future. I appreciate the conclusion of the Scandinavian football season has not helped with fitness issues.
Comments
Me too. Still struggling to let go, even now.
Fully agree with this. I don't think Hagelskjaer is an issue given the immense quality and form of the three players in front of him. He'd probably have played a lot more if Taylor hadn't unexpectedly become available again at the end of January.
It's Westergaard that worries, given that Leahy and Bakinson are getting in the squad ahead of him. They are lower League One players, and you'd hope he's better than that given the amount we spent
They were signed now for now, there's nothing in the chase for these players, their ages or previous achievements that suggests they were prospects we had to buy now to deter others or that they are solely for the Championship. If you look at the three who actually play : Bradley, Norris and Xavi they are the ones with Championship experience.
The coach either wants to go slowly slowly with any changes at the risk of us becoming a bit stale (unlikely because most have been seen and a couple now play regularly), he genuinely doesn't rate them or just isn't happy with their fitness or efforts in training.
No point buying players with an eye on the championship and then not using them when you need help to get there.
I wonder if Rice just took over all recruitment when it was clear Blooms was off to win over some fans and some of the data and sense checking went missing.
If the Danes can’t get into the squad now because better players are ahead of them but are there for the championship, then it doesn’t bode well for our championship squad unless we expect to spend in the transfer market- in which case why did we buy them now?
I thought they’d said everyone was fit
The good thing about the transfers pre being data led was that all of them, every single time hit the ground running and were as good as whatever manager thought they would be at the time of signing.
wait, what? You mean there were some players signed that weren’t as good as people thought they would be before we were data led and some players won’t be as good as people think they will be, after we’re data led?
what witch craft is this? I thought data led was going to be the silver bullet that got it right 100% of the time (said no one ever. Not even DR)
All signings have always been “data led” btw.
Previously it was human gathered data - that’s what scouting teams did. Now it’s statistical data (which would have been put onto a computer largely from said human gathered data and, arguable could come from a much MUCH larger group of independent and in house scouting teams not just from your area, but across the country/europe/theworld.).
Who do you currently replace out of the starting eleven?
In terms of the central defender, probably because Taylor will go back to West Brom, Bradley will go back to Derby (in any case he is 34 next year) and Low is leaving at the end of his contract.
It is quite a bizarre situation to break the transfer record twice and both players can’t even get in the matchday squad. With Simon’s out for 3 games we’ll get an indication if Dodds rates Magnus as he should at least be on the bench.
Totally agree that you would be hard pressed to replace most of our first 11 however much we've shelled out but having a young wide player or a higher quality (I assume) midfielder on the bench as 'finishers' would be nice. All academic if we win the two before the big game against Wrexham of course!
Thought Dodds said Berry wasn't "injured", then applied that to the other guys not making the squad.
It's whether there is a distinction between not being Injured thus fit, and actually match fit.
We hope so, otherwise the whole thing is bonkers.
Two things worth considering:
For me, the most interesting thing about all of this is why the data seems to have been so wrong. They were two professional footballers regularly doing their job (presumably pretty well) at a competitive level of football. I will accept a week or two to get up to match fitness and a little bit of adapting to a new environment but after this length of time not to get near the first team (by any reasonable reading of MD's comments) suggests that their abilities and qualities that were apparent in their previous employment haven't (yet) translated into abilities and qualities that (presumably) our data said would be good for League 1 football in England & Wales.
I will repeat my previous comment, if you think just because he cost a bit of money the Danish Centre half should come straight in, who would you drop out of Low and Taylor and presumably bin Bradley all together?
I get your point @mooneyman but that does not alter the fact (for me) that it's strange that a centreback who probably cost more (I don't have the figures I know) and is presumably paid more than our whole back line can't get in the team, or on the bench ahead of 34 year old loan player. (And I think Bradley has been excellent for us.) It's a question we are allowed to ask without it revealing our lack of understanding of the game.
I’m sure Dan and Eduard know what they’re doing.
He did. His other interview, which was within the same couple of days, suggested “fit” wasn’t quite as black and white as that though.
Fitness updates and Wycombe have never exactly gone hand in hand.
I think the answer may in part be that we didn't think Taylor was coming back hence needed another central defender.
I also think having spent many years picking up freebies and begging bigger clubs for loanees, we as supporters have yet to become accustomed to the real financial world of football. The two Danes didn't cost a fortune when compared to what other top level League 1 clubs have paid. Didn't Huddersfield pay £3m for 1 player in the recent window and Wrexham and Birmingham have spent real money. The current market values of Low and Taylor would, I suspect, far exceed what we paid for the Danes.
The fact that we can turn down a £7m offer for a player that has only played 18 months at this level, highlights the real world we are now entering.
Insightful comments.
i think Westergaard looked good but rusty. Given the amount of players we have, we are in a position to allow them to effectively do a full 4-6 week pre-season and then come into the squad. A luxury we would not have been able to do in the past.
It’s exactly 6 weeks since he signed and I reckon he will be in the squad Tuesday night and will have a big impact on our run in.
Anders may not dislodge our current three but assume if we move to a back three he may come onto the bench.
A sensible take on the situation with the Danes.
I would like to see Berry over Lubala
All good and reasonable explanations but I reserve the right to still think it's odd.
I was surprised when the two Danish lads appeared at Wycombe. My thoughts were one played in the Danish premier league, the other from Norways’s equivalent league. I would suggest, with respect to both, the leagues’ standard of football I would rate at low Championship league level at best and that is a generous assement. A bit of research on games played by clubs from these leagues in the European cup competitions indicate a lack of quality in these leagues. Obviously data researched will relate to performances in league matches played. In the two inferior leagues. The figures ‘ flatter to deceive ‘. I am suprised we spend loads of cash on them. I would be more than happy to be proven wrong on these two in the future. I appreciate the conclusion of the Scandinavian football season has not helped with fitness issues.
The data will account for the relative quality of leagues, to allow a level playing field for assessing ability etc.
Someone made a great point about how we're exceptionally well stocked at centre back especially,
When we signed Anders, we were losing Taylor, with no guarantee we could get him back, and Bradley wasn't on the radar.
Coming into the club in that scenario could have seen him play straight away. But now, there's no reason to upset it.
Westergaard is the more surprising one to not make the bench
I spotted Havarti and Vesterhavsost in Asda at the weekend. They are two great Danish cheeses ...