In fact, and I'll hold my hands up and say I haven't read through all the details so I could be wrong, but I suspect that the teams who are featured most will get more money out of it than teams that are featured less, and I suspect that it will be the "bigger" teams that are featured most so my suspicion is that the gap between the richer clubs and the rest of us will actually get bigger.
Again, please correct me if I'm not understanding it properly.
@glasshalffull despite decades of additional TV cash, football has never been in a more desperate financial state.
The Premier League and upper reaches of the Championship is propped up with dirty money. Anything lower is stumbling around, cooking the books or racking up debt.
More TV money simply means higher wages, more debt and more inconvenience for supporters who don’t sit in front of the TV - especially travelling ones.
Attending supporters are simply wallpaper for the broadcaster. I wouldn’t mind if all this money resulted in cheaper matchday tickets as compensation, but it doesn’t.
Lashing out more TV money is like endless road building. Ultimately pointless as the new capacity eventually fills up and you’re back in the same old mess as when you started.
As I understand the deal, this will certainly be the end of the road for me. WWFC will eventually become a team whose results I keep an eye out for and I will miss the social aspect of matchdays. Still - that’s progress I guess?
Very likely, the big clubs would be foolish to not include some element of this as if a club can attract 40,000 to a game that we could only attract 4000 to it would follow that they have more fans dotted around the country and more neutrals might be interested in seeing them wether that fits people's definition of fair or not.
I think sometimes the clubs only see the £ sign, if it's all used on facilities then great but if it's used on wages what use is an extra £1 when all our opponents get an extra £2 or £5.
I take your point about other clubs also benefiting but it will be a more even playing field when/if we lose the bigger clubs like Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday, Bolton etc and we become a slightly bigger fish in a small pond than we are at the moment.
I think we overestimate how many people of all ages use VPN and especially Streams, It's difficult to imagine that with no rules and the potential of Man Utd Vs Liverpool at 1pm and Barcelona Vs Madrid on at 3 that we don't have at least some floating supporters who decide to stay at home. Nobody else has a pyramid like ours and we'll miss it if it falls.
Bigger than us, yes but not as big as Ipswich, Wednesday, Bolton, Derby or even Portsmouth, and as you say they both have major financial problems. Also, this deal doesn’t start till 2024-25 so the make up of the division could be very different by then.
Out of interest, what do people feel about watching lower level football on TV. Even with the very good commentary on the WWTV thing, often find watching Tuesday games alone on a screen a bit of a soulless experience. Certainly given the choice between watching a live game at non league level locally and a game on WWTV, I would almost always choose the former. I should be a natural Vipienner on sat pms but honestly can't find the motivation. No way would I watch a regular season game between say Morecambe and Shrewsbury on a Sky streaming service. Each to their own but not for me.
It could be but that is true In either direction. We know that lots of Championship clubs and some Prem clubs are spending way over what they are taking so some others will fall through as Man City and plenty of others have.
Btw Reading and Wigan both have massive modern stadiums and if they can shift debt as easily as Derby were allowed to and win a few games they would get massive crowds.
If (in my opinion, when) the blackout is lifted, it will need certain protections, but I don't think that'll be a big issue - the vast majority of the biggest games don't take place on a Saturday anyway.
Didn't ITV digital find that so few people were watching some games that it'd be cheaper to pick them all up from wherever they lived in the country than to broadcast the game. You'd have to imagine that it'll be at least one big club in each live broadcast.
Here is a key part of the statement regarding the new deal:
With the substantial increase in the number of live matches, Sky Sports and the EFL will introduce a new commitment for clubs and fans which will provide longer notice periods on TV selections. The defined notice periods will enable clubs and fans to plan further in advance and this will include the placement of all live matches selected for broadcast for the period to FA Cup third round before the start of the season. Greater parity in the number of times that clubs are selected for TV coverage is also guaranteed.
Such a shame for me that Sky will poison the lower leagues with their nauseating coverage. I dumped Sky Sports a good while ago. The politics, the guffawing Richards, the despicable Carragher etc., coach loads of pundits for every game, the rubbish spouted before during and after the games - it became enough for me. I would choose to watch a non League game over a Premier league game every single time.
Reading perhaps but I have lived and worked in Wigan where rugby league is more important than football. They only got big crowds when they were in the PL and averaged around 11,000 in the Championship.
This... floating support won't exist anymore, will be too easy to sit at home in comfort or watch at a pub. Only true hardcore support will attend games.
Let's hope not or we'll be shooting ourselves in the foot, people don't always tend to start off or stay as hardcore go every week supporters for their whole lives.
Lots of the safeguards in the deal are still tbc by the looks of it including the protection given for moving games and how games will be chosen. Interesting bit about how games may be streamed rather than televised and how this effectively kills iPlayer/ Wanderers TV, but without any guarantee that they stream all games, would expect more info nearer the time. Mention also of how the current rules offer 6 weeks notice for most of the season so presumably not later stages where more important games get moved at shorter notice.
Reading and Wigan are not too dissimilar in size. Wigan had average gates of 12000 and Reading 14000 this season.
Though Wigan is thought of a Rugby League town above football that is definitely not the case.
This season Wigan Athletic have been dismal in the Championship, tier 2. Wigan Warriors finished second in the top league for Rugby League last season and have had 42 continuous seasons in the top flight. They managed just over 12000 as an average gate, if they were at the bottom of tier 2 Rugby League they would be lucky to get 5000 through the gates.
I work in Wigan every couple of weeks in a factory of 60/70 employees. Football is far bigger than Rugby League on the shop floor and mess room.
I should have said that rugby league was bigger than football when I lived there many moons ago. From your description times have changed but there is still a huge RL influence in the town as average crowds of 12,000 indicates.
My impression is most people here are Wigan Warriors fans, and a mixture of Wigan Athletic, Liverpool and Man Utd supporters. St Helens are definitely still the biggest local rivals.
Showing games on TV doesn’t necessarily have to reduce attendances. If a club is set up right it can build on what you can see on the box. If little Jonny gets taken to a home game and can see the next away game on Saturday on TV he will be more engaged and want to go home again. You get a continuity of engagement.
But to have engagement you need a good offering. On the field we all hope for good things but it has to be more rounded now. You need to make the visit enjoyable and priced right. I think at the moment we are too dear and the catering has let us down. It’s a competitive market out there. We don’t reach out to the community, we barely promote, we don’t incentivise. I fear we will wither.
Another thing about the new EFL deal is the split. If the lions share goes to the championship then how’s that gonna help us and our peers ?
Having read the Q&A linked above this still provides for "international viewing" via club streaming services, so hopefully those of us resident in Vipienne will still be able to log in & watch via WTV.
The distribution appears to be even more skewed to the Championship which doesn't help us & those in L2 even less, I suspect this will see Championship clubs using the additional funding to vacuum up decent talent by offering inflated wages thus driving an even greater disparity between them & L1.
While I understand the "is this a good thing?" debate on the surface, the useless and greedy way the game is governed and disseminated always leads me to a simple "no".
Should we accept mid-table respectability with the risk of being accused of a lack of ambition and invest in the catering and loos to make the visit more enjoyable...or buy The Players to try improve the football and secure promotion make the visit more enjoyable. Ownership at this level is a tricky beast isn't it?
Comments
I currently get my Sky games through Now tv, which gets you about 8 or so channels. So on last day's of season you might get a choice of say 3 or 4.
But if they're showing tonnes of games, presumably the majority of games will only be available through "proper" Sky TV on a red button?
In fact, and I'll hold my hands up and say I haven't read through all the details so I could be wrong, but I suspect that the teams who are featured most will get more money out of it than teams that are featured less, and I suspect that it will be the "bigger" teams that are featured most so my suspicion is that the gap between the richer clubs and the rest of us will actually get bigger.
Again, please correct me if I'm not understanding it properly.
The last one didn't, or they didn't stick to it if it did.
@glasshalffull despite decades of additional TV cash, football has never been in a more desperate financial state.
The Premier League and upper reaches of the Championship is propped up with dirty money. Anything lower is stumbling around, cooking the books or racking up debt.
More TV money simply means higher wages, more debt and more inconvenience for supporters who don’t sit in front of the TV - especially travelling ones.
Attending supporters are simply wallpaper for the broadcaster. I wouldn’t mind if all this money resulted in cheaper matchday tickets as compensation, but it doesn’t.
Lashing out more TV money is like endless road building. Ultimately pointless as the new capacity eventually fills up and you’re back in the same old mess as when you started.
As I understand the deal, this will certainly be the end of the road for me. WWFC will eventually become a team whose results I keep an eye out for and I will miss the social aspect of matchdays. Still - that’s progress I guess?
Very likely, the big clubs would be foolish to not include some element of this as if a club can attract 40,000 to a game that we could only attract 4000 to it would follow that they have more fans dotted around the country and more neutrals might be interested in seeing them wether that fits people's definition of fair or not.
I think sometimes the clubs only see the £ sign, if it's all used on facilities then great but if it's used on wages what use is an extra £1 when all our opponents get an extra £2 or £5.
It's especially redundant when affordable technology exists that allows it to be easily circumvented - as plenty of us on here know...
I take your point about other clubs also benefiting but it will be a more even playing field when/if we lose the bigger clubs like Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday, Bolton etc and we become a slightly bigger fish in a small pond than we are at the moment.
I agree, but that has nothing to do with any TV deal
Reading and Wigan have issues to resolve but in reality they are big clubs at this level as are Blackpool.
I think we overestimate how many people of all ages use VPN and especially Streams, It's difficult to imagine that with no rules and the potential of Man Utd Vs Liverpool at 1pm and Barcelona Vs Madrid on at 3 that we don't have at least some floating supporters who decide to stay at home. Nobody else has a pyramid like ours and we'll miss it if it falls.
Bigger than us, yes but not as big as Ipswich, Wednesday, Bolton, Derby or even Portsmouth, and as you say they both have major financial problems. Also, this deal doesn’t start till 2024-25 so the make up of the division could be very different by then.
Out of interest, what do people feel about watching lower level football on TV. Even with the very good commentary on the WWTV thing, often find watching Tuesday games alone on a screen a bit of a soulless experience. Certainly given the choice between watching a live game at non league level locally and a game on WWTV, I would almost always choose the former. I should be a natural Vipienner on sat pms but honestly can't find the motivation. No way would I watch a regular season game between say Morecambe and Shrewsbury on a Sky streaming service. Each to their own but not for me.
It could be but that is true In either direction. We know that lots of Championship clubs and some Prem clubs are spending way over what they are taking so some others will fall through as Man City and plenty of others have.
Btw Reading and Wigan both have massive modern stadiums and if they can shift debt as easily as Derby were allowed to and win a few games they would get massive crowds.
If (in my opinion, when) the blackout is lifted, it will need certain protections, but I don't think that'll be a big issue - the vast majority of the biggest games don't take place on a Saturday anyway.
Didn't ITV digital find that so few people were watching some games that it'd be cheaper to pick them all up from wherever they lived in the country than to broadcast the game. You'd have to imagine that it'll be at least one big club in each live broadcast.
Here is a key part of the statement regarding the new deal:
With the substantial increase in the number of live matches, Sky Sports and the EFL will introduce a new commitment for clubs and fans which will provide longer notice periods on TV selections. The defined notice periods will enable clubs and fans to plan further in advance and this will include the placement of all live matches selected for broadcast for the period to FA Cup third round before the start of the season. Greater parity in the number of times that clubs are selected for TV coverage is also guaranteed.
They don't partly because of the blackout. As for the controls I think once you sell you lose the control but we will see.
Such a shame for me that Sky will poison the lower leagues with their nauseating coverage. I dumped Sky Sports a good while ago. The politics, the guffawing Richards, the despicable Carragher etc., coach loads of pundits for every game, the rubbish spouted before during and after the games - it became enough for me. I would choose to watch a non League game over a Premier league game every single time.
Reading perhaps but I have lived and worked in Wigan where rugby league is more important than football. They only got big crowds when they were in the PL and averaged around 11,000 in the Championship.
Lots of detail in the Q&A...
https://www.efl.com/news/2023/may/efl-and-sky-sports-broadcast-rights-agreement/
This... floating support won't exist anymore, will be too easy to sit at home in comfort or watch at a pub. Only true hardcore support will attend games.
Let's hope not or we'll be shooting ourselves in the foot, people don't always tend to start off or stay as hardcore go every week supporters for their whole lives.
Lots of the safeguards in the deal are still tbc by the looks of it including the protection given for moving games and how games will be chosen. Interesting bit about how games may be streamed rather than televised and how this effectively kills iPlayer/ Wanderers TV, but without any guarantee that they stream all games, would expect more info nearer the time. Mention also of how the current rules offer 6 weeks notice for most of the season so presumably not later stages where more important games get moved at shorter notice.
Reading and Wigan are not too dissimilar in size. Wigan had average gates of 12000 and Reading 14000 this season.
Though Wigan is thought of a Rugby League town above football that is definitely not the case.
This season Wigan Athletic have been dismal in the Championship, tier 2. Wigan Warriors finished second in the top league for Rugby League last season and have had 42 continuous seasons in the top flight. They managed just over 12000 as an average gate, if they were at the bottom of tier 2 Rugby League they would be lucky to get 5000 through the gates.
I work in Wigan every couple of weeks in a factory of 60/70 employees. Football is far bigger than Rugby League on the shop floor and mess room.
I should have said that rugby league was bigger than football when I lived there many moons ago. From your description times have changed but there is still a huge RL influence in the town as average crowds of 12,000 indicates.
My impression is most people here are Wigan Warriors fans, and a mixture of Wigan Athletic, Liverpool and Man Utd supporters. St Helens are definitely still the biggest local rivals.
Showing games on TV doesn’t necessarily have to reduce attendances. If a club is set up right it can build on what you can see on the box. If little Jonny gets taken to a home game and can see the next away game on Saturday on TV he will be more engaged and want to go home again. You get a continuity of engagement.
But to have engagement you need a good offering. On the field we all hope for good things but it has to be more rounded now. You need to make the visit enjoyable and priced right. I think at the moment we are too dear and the catering has let us down. It’s a competitive market out there. We don’t reach out to the community, we barely promote, we don’t incentivise. I fear we will wither.
Another thing about the new EFL deal is the split. If the lions share goes to the championship then how’s that gonna help us and our peers ?
I am imagining little Johnny Graham-FanClub as being say 8yo. How much should a match ticket for dad and son cost?
Having read the Q&A linked above this still provides for "international viewing" via club streaming services, so hopefully those of us resident in Vipienne will still be able to log in & watch via WTV.
The distribution appears to be even more skewed to the Championship which doesn't help us & those in L2 even less, I suspect this will see Championship clubs using the additional funding to vacuum up decent talent by offering inflated wages thus driving an even greater disparity between them & L1.
While I understand the "is this a good thing?" debate on the surface, the useless and greedy way the game is governed and disseminated always leads me to a simple "no".
Should we accept mid-table respectability with the risk of being accused of a lack of ambition and invest in the catering and loos to make the visit more enjoyable...or buy The Players to try improve the football and secure promotion make the visit more enjoyable. Ownership at this level is a tricky beast isn't it?