Genuinely sorry you feel that way @drcongo . As someone who wouldn’t be near Bristol after an hour and a half, I don’t get to many games but have to say when I did recently, I absolutely loved the whole experience.
OK we know the grounds location isn’t great making access parking and departure a bit of a faff but then AP has always been that. And honestly I have always been to live football for the atmosphere and the football rather than the food and drink. I found a vibrant atmosphere, a likeable team playing good football at a league level above wildest dreams not so many years ago and staff and fellow supporters couldn’t be friendlier. For me better now than it has been for many years.
I would love to go far more often but the 8 hour round trip makes that impossible. I can see that 90mins each way is right on the cusp of doable and perhaps then I would look for reasons to avoid making the trip.
Maybe if these feelings do persist, maybe time to take a season or two off - you are not obliged to go if not enjoying it. I do fear though that in a few years time you may find that today is very much a high point and the experience then may not be as good as now.
A combination of online viewing and a form of ChatGPT (ChatWWFC?) fakery that allows viewers to think Wycombe have won every game is the future. A cold but happy future. The Blueyverse.
Also, I get the vibe from WW that rather than having 2,000 fans at Portman Road on Good Friday they’d prefer 200 there & 1,800 watching on Wanderers TV. Call me a cynic but WW’s media output these days seems to be more about “upgrading your matchday ticket” rather than about the diehard supporters who travel the length & breadth of the country & encouraging fans to support the team away from home. There used to be a good article in the matchday programme about getting to away games, pubs to drink at etc. Not any more.
The programme was always a huge part of my game going routine as a kid.
I'd read it cover to cover back and forward, and really dwell on the stats, seeing who was close to benchmark numbers etc.
At one time I even bought some of the first season or 2 aways I hadn't even been to, which looking back was madness.
Over time though, you accumulate 100s of the things, and they've generally not got enough to re-read, however good some of the columnists we used to have were.
Absolutely (totally?) agree with the sentiment of the thread title. I was both shocked and saddened by the low attendance figure.
It's been said several times about the empty seats in the family stand, yet you can't actually buy 2x seats together by Friday afternoon. I've not had the need to check this for myself but am prepared to accept it. This suggests it's something the club need to address. Families aren't going to attend on a last minute one off basis if they have to pay FA prices.
As regards match day program, to me it's a non essential luxury - I wouldn't want to pay £3-£5 for something that I read once. However, if adverts could cover the cost of a 4-8 page give away item that might be something people would enjoy.
To boost attendances we need to sign a well known name, no doubt in their twilight years, but a footballing super celebrity nonetheless.
I remember when I heard that we’d signed Cyrille Regis, a proper famous footballer, I was so excited.
Less successful (and only for one game) was Ray Wilkins, how many extra bums on seats did he attract, for that one game, anyone know?
Maybe today’s super stars are just too wealthy to consider playing in League one in their later years, but who could be a likely recruit for next season?
Jamie Vardy is 36, no idea when his Leicester contract is up, but even a 37/38 year old Vardy would add a few 100 on the gate I’m sure
Good discussion this, and a very important subject.
I don't have the history some on here have, but is it right to say that in non-League days Wycombe were very well supported? If so, what has happened? Recent years have been our most successful set of league positions in the club's history but we are getting crowds that would be a bit embarrassing in upper League 2.
I think the ultimate for this was George Best. He signed for a few lowly teams after United and would be responsible for putting thousands on the attendance. Certainly paid his wages.
Vardy is the best paid player at a PL club, so I’m afraid it’s totally unrealistic to suggest him. We have Vokes and McCleary both of whom have played at the highest level for club and country.
@SolR The idea that we were better supported as a non league club compared to now is a bit of a myth, unless you're going back to the 50's and the huge crowds we used to get at Loakes Park for the Amateur Cup ties (well before my time!). Even if you go back to our double winning season in 93, crowds were averaging out at 4600, this season by contrast our current average is about 5800. Ok, you can argue that the away crowds are of course larger than in the Conference, but even taking that into account, our home crowds are bigger now. I think perhaps the smaller capacity in those days clouds the memory. There's more empty spaces now we have the Frank Adams stand, that's for sure.
All that said, it is an issue that no matter how well we're doing, we seem to struggle to regularly attract 6k + crowds. Not easy to know what the solution is when it's something we're suffered with ever since the move to Adams Park.
Vokes and McCleary both excellent players for us no doubt and like you say have played at the highest level, but weren’t/aren’t arguably household names.
I think Bayo is an example of someone who’d appeared on the telly a fair bit and was already a minor celebrity before signing for us, and probably added a few bums on seats for his name alone at the start.
I don’t doubt you are right about Bayo but he is literally a one-off. PL players now earn so much money that they are more concerned about their investment portfolios than dropping down through the leagues. Those days are long gone and I agree with Chris about the type of players we should be looking for, stars of the future rather than the past.
In the 30-odd years I’ve supported wycombe I don’t think our average attendance has ever been below 4000 or above 6000. Maybe 01/02 was slightly higher.
A crowd of 5,000 at an Italian third division game would have the players rubbing their eyes in disbelief and wondering if they were on whatever passes for a Jeremy Beadle show in Italy.
I think people are hitting the nail on the head - overpriced and poor matchday experience. I have an ST in the Family Stand, even with two games missed, that works out at £18 per game attended, good value compared to the £22 they ask for on the day. I make Saturdays work by making it a walking day out, spending my money at pubs and food places in the town.
However, I am erring against getting an ST for next season. The midweeks are a bit of a chore and there's been some Saturdays where I'd liked to have gone elsewhere. I was there but I wasn't on Saturday - recorded in the attendance but physically in Scotland watching six games of Non-League football as part of a trip.
Really, it would be great if the club could bring back the packages where you bought 6 or 12 games that we had under the Hayes era. I'd be more than happy to commit to 15 a season. But the club don't seem to care what the fans want anymore - it's my way or the highway, it seems.
We have had four seasons below 4000 in the last 10 years and one at 4044. All of these in League 2 (4th Tier). These are what I would expect our average attendances to be in Lge1 and Lge2.
Lge1 Top8 - 5500 to 6000
Lge1 9-16 - 5000 to 5500
Lge1 17-24 - 4800 to 5300
Lge2 Top8 - 4250 to 4750
Lge2 9-16 - 4000 to 4500
Lge2 17-24 - 3750 to 4250
These are also dependent on the size of teams in the League in any one season and the location of these teams. This season League 2 has 15 teams that are over 2 hours drive from Wycombe with 11 over 3 hours away. If we were mid table League 2 this season I would expect our attendances would be in the 4200-4300 range looking at the size of teams away support and travelling distances.
I expect our average gate this season to be around 5750.
Like @drcongo I am a season ticket holder but have been to much fewer games than in any of the last 20 odd seasons (obviously excluding the Covid period). The atmosphere seems to have totally changed in the ground.
Whilst I appreciate that the Couhigs probably saved us from going under, for me the much heralded "improved match day experience" has not improved my personal experience, in fact quite the reverse. Since the takeover I feel a lot more disconnected with the club particularly since Pete Couhig became much less involved and perhaps his loss of enthusiasm.
It feels, (I hope I'm wrong) that the Couhigs are currently working on an exit strategy and troubled times lay ahead if a viable new owner cannot be found.
If iFollow has the same EFL restrictions as RamsTV, there won't be any UK residents paying a tenner "to watch in the comfort of their homes". Saturday, 3 o'clock games aren't allowed to be shown live in the UK. This is in order to "protect gates".
I get to watch my lot in all 46 League games for £20 a month as I live abroad.
I am well aware that I say this as someone very distant from Adams Park, but I do wonder how much of the atmosphere and connection issue is down to the general post-Covid malaise, together with new issues like the cost of living crisis and such? I only watch on a screen, but I have not felt as enthusiastic over the past couple of seasons - which cannot have anything to do with the actual matchday experience - and when I have gone to ice hockey games here in Denver, they have not felt quite the same as they did before (despite us having the current champions of the league).
It sounds as though the Couhigs have failed to deliver on some promises, and that fans are more customers now than since the fan-owned days, but the owners are also probably victims of bad timing too.
It would be interesting to know how fans of other clubs feel. I have been on various other forums where fans have stated they don't care as much as they used to, but it's hard to parse that out fully into how much is where we are in history, and how much is down to them having the misfortune to support a club other than the mighty Wycombe Wanderers.
Comments
Genuinely sorry you feel that way @drcongo . As someone who wouldn’t be near Bristol after an hour and a half, I don’t get to many games but have to say when I did recently, I absolutely loved the whole experience.
OK we know the grounds location isn’t great making access parking and departure a bit of a faff but then AP has always been that. And honestly I have always been to live football for the atmosphere and the football rather than the food and drink. I found a vibrant atmosphere, a likeable team playing good football at a league level above wildest dreams not so many years ago and staff and fellow supporters couldn’t be friendlier. For me better now than it has been for many years.
I would love to go far more often but the 8 hour round trip makes that impossible. I can see that 90mins each way is right on the cusp of doable and perhaps then I would look for reasons to avoid making the trip.
Maybe if these feelings do persist, maybe time to take a season or two off - you are not obliged to go if not enjoying it. I do fear though that in a few years time you may find that today is very much a high point and the experience then may not be as good as now.
A combination of online viewing and a form of ChatGPT (ChatWWFC?) fakery that allows viewers to think Wycombe have won every game is the future. A cold but happy future. The Blueyverse.
Also, I get the vibe from WW that rather than having 2,000 fans at Portman Road on Good Friday they’d prefer 200 there & 1,800 watching on Wanderers TV. Call me a cynic but WW’s media output these days seems to be more about “upgrading your matchday ticket” rather than about the diehard supporters who travel the length & breadth of the country & encouraging fans to support the team away from home. There used to be a good article in the matchday programme about getting to away games, pubs to drink at etc. Not any more.
In fairness, there is no programme, so it'd be hard to still have an article.
The website will have a review on an away game, but clearly can't be see to be promoting pubs etc.
My point exactly! I still think it’s shocking we don’t have a matchday programme. It’s part of British football culture.
@A_Worboys 'Just do what you always do on Match day' will not generate extra revenue I fear.
We're far from the only club without a programme these days. It was losing us money.
I shall always agree with you on this point.
The programme was always a huge part of my game going routine as a kid.
I'd read it cover to cover back and forward, and really dwell on the stats, seeing who was close to benchmark numbers etc.
At one time I even bought some of the first season or 2 aways I hadn't even been to, which looking back was madness.
Over time though, you accumulate 100s of the things, and they've generally not got enough to re-read, however good some of the columnists we used to have were.
Absolutely (totally?) agree with the sentiment of the thread title. I was both shocked and saddened by the low attendance figure.
It's been said several times about the empty seats in the family stand, yet you can't actually buy 2x seats together by Friday afternoon. I've not had the need to check this for myself but am prepared to accept it. This suggests it's something the club need to address. Families aren't going to attend on a last minute one off basis if they have to pay FA prices.
As regards match day program, to me it's a non essential luxury - I wouldn't want to pay £3-£5 for something that I read once. However, if adverts could cover the cost of a 4-8 page give away item that might be something people would enjoy.
To boost attendances we need to sign a well known name, no doubt in their twilight years, but a footballing super celebrity nonetheless.
I remember when I heard that we’d signed Cyrille Regis, a proper famous footballer, I was so excited.
Less successful (and only for one game) was Ray Wilkins, how many extra bums on seats did he attract, for that one game, anyone know?
Maybe today’s super stars are just too wealthy to consider playing in League one in their later years, but who could be a likely recruit for next season?
Jamie Vardy is 36, no idea when his Leicester contract is up, but even a 37/38 year old Vardy would add a few 100 on the gate I’m sure
Good discussion this, and a very important subject.
I don't have the history some on here have, but is it right to say that in non-League days Wycombe were very well supported? If so, what has happened? Recent years have been our most successful set of league positions in the club's history but we are getting crowds that would be a bit embarrassing in upper League 2.
I think the ultimate for this was George Best. He signed for a few lowly teams after United and would be responsible for putting thousands on the attendance. Certainly paid his wages.
Vardy is the best paid player at a PL club, so I’m afraid it’s totally unrealistic to suggest him. We have Vokes and McCleary both of whom have played at the highest level for club and country.
@SolR The idea that we were better supported as a non league club compared to now is a bit of a myth, unless you're going back to the 50's and the huge crowds we used to get at Loakes Park for the Amateur Cup ties (well before my time!). Even if you go back to our double winning season in 93, crowds were averaging out at 4600, this season by contrast our current average is about 5800. Ok, you can argue that the away crowds are of course larger than in the Conference, but even taking that into account, our home crowds are bigger now. I think perhaps the smaller capacity in those days clouds the memory. There's more empty spaces now we have the Frank Adams stand, that's for sure.
All that said, it is an issue that no matter how well we're doing, we seem to struggle to regularly attract 6k + crowds. Not easy to know what the solution is when it's something we're suffered with ever since the move to Adams Park.
Vokes and McCleary both excellent players for us no doubt and like you say have played at the highest level, but weren’t/aren’t arguably household names.
I think Bayo is an example of someone who’d appeared on the telly a fair bit and was already a minor celebrity before signing for us, and probably added a few bums on seats for his name alone at the start.
Better to have a highly functioning cohesive team than sign people for their names and former glory.
I don’t doubt you are right about Bayo but he is literally a one-off. PL players now earn so much money that they are more concerned about their investment portfolios than dropping down through the leagues. Those days are long gone and I agree with Chris about the type of players we should be looking for, stars of the future rather than the past.
In the 30-odd years I’ve supported wycombe I don’t think our average attendance has ever been below 4000 or above 6000. Maybe 01/02 was slightly higher.
A crowd of 5,000 at an Italian third division game would have the players rubbing their eyes in disbelief and wondering if they were on whatever passes for a Jeremy Beadle show in Italy.
We are spoilt over here.
Ground in the town center would bring bigger crowds, shame there is nowhere for it to go
I think people are hitting the nail on the head - overpriced and poor matchday experience. I have an ST in the Family Stand, even with two games missed, that works out at £18 per game attended, good value compared to the £22 they ask for on the day. I make Saturdays work by making it a walking day out, spending my money at pubs and food places in the town.
However, I am erring against getting an ST for next season. The midweeks are a bit of a chore and there's been some Saturdays where I'd liked to have gone elsewhere. I was there but I wasn't on Saturday - recorded in the attendance but physically in Scotland watching six games of Non-League football as part of a trip.
Really, it would be great if the club could bring back the packages where you bought 6 or 12 games that we had under the Hayes era. I'd be more than happy to commit to 15 a season. But the club don't seem to care what the fans want anymore - it's my way or the highway, it seems.
"whatever passes for a Jeremy Beadle show in Italy" = the government
We have had four seasons below 4000 in the last 10 years and one at 4044. All of these in League 2 (4th Tier). These are what I would expect our average attendances to be in Lge1 and Lge2.
Lge1 Top8 - 5500 to 6000
Lge1 9-16 - 5000 to 5500
Lge1 17-24 - 4800 to 5300
Lge2 Top8 - 4250 to 4750
Lge2 9-16 - 4000 to 4500
Lge2 17-24 - 3750 to 4250
These are also dependent on the size of teams in the League in any one season and the location of these teams. This season League 2 has 15 teams that are over 2 hours drive from Wycombe with 11 over 3 hours away. If we were mid table League 2 this season I would expect our attendances would be in the 4200-4300 range looking at the size of teams away support and travelling distances.
I expect our average gate this season to be around 5750.
Like @drcongo I am a season ticket holder but have been to much fewer games than in any of the last 20 odd seasons (obviously excluding the Covid period). The atmosphere seems to have totally changed in the ground.
Whilst I appreciate that the Couhigs probably saved us from going under, for me the much heralded "improved match day experience" has not improved my personal experience, in fact quite the reverse. Since the takeover I feel a lot more disconnected with the club particularly since Pete Couhig became much less involved and perhaps his loss of enthusiasm.
It feels, (I hope I'm wrong) that the Couhigs are currently working on an exit strategy and troubled times lay ahead if a viable new owner cannot be found.
If iFollow has the same EFL restrictions as RamsTV, there won't be any UK residents paying a tenner "to watch in the comfort of their homes". Saturday, 3 o'clock games aren't allowed to be shown live in the UK. This is in order to "protect gates".
I get to watch my lot in all 46 League games for £20 a month as I live abroad.
That's why we all go to 'France' on Saturdays 😉
People worked out how to get round this quicker than Celtic fans worked out how to get into Scores at half time on Celtic Day
Thanks for the numbers. So it seems like this season’s attendance will be well above the ten year average.
I am well aware that I say this as someone very distant from Adams Park, but I do wonder how much of the atmosphere and connection issue is down to the general post-Covid malaise, together with new issues like the cost of living crisis and such? I only watch on a screen, but I have not felt as enthusiastic over the past couple of seasons - which cannot have anything to do with the actual matchday experience - and when I have gone to ice hockey games here in Denver, they have not felt quite the same as they did before (despite us having the current champions of the league).
It sounds as though the Couhigs have failed to deliver on some promises, and that fans are more customers now than since the fan-owned days, but the owners are also probably victims of bad timing too.
It would be interesting to know how fans of other clubs feel. I have been on various other forums where fans have stated they don't care as much as they used to, but it's hard to parse that out fully into how much is where we are in history, and how much is down to them having the misfortune to support a club other than the mighty Wycombe Wanderers.