My main complaint about recent performances has been the constant resort to hoofball once the more attractive stuff has failed to produce goals. It is self-evidently not working and I’m not convinced it would work if any other affordable target man was playing there.
Some hoofed balls inevitably sailed over Vokes’ head on Saturday but, as @bluntphil commented, Raglan was constantly beating him to the ball. He’d have had difficulty doing that if the ball was miles above their heads!
You say the players voted Vokes player of the season last season. I defer to your better memory on that one but I’m not sure what relevance it has to the present season..
As you must know by now, I would be delighted to witness a really good performance by Sam Vokes and I’d be the first to acknowledge it.
Haven’t seen any comments comparing De Barre with Sam Vokes. Shimmering apes in cloud cuckoo land on the face of it but difficult to make valid comparisons on the strength of a couple of fleeting appearances. Chalk and cheese, I’d have thought.
Why am I taking any of this seriously? I’ve a life to live.
Well, put it this way, @Chris, if anyone in the current squad scores 17 goals this season I will be delighted. Logically, if Vokes is playing anywhere near as well this season as he did last season, we might reasonably expect him to score 15-20 this season. It’s what he’s there for.
On a positive note, I think he does a fair bit of good defensive work at corners. Opposition corners, that is !!
I'm not so sure. I think we'd have almost certainly signed Mehmeti, irrespective of having a development squad or not. Unless my memory deceives me, Gaz is on record as saying that they immediately saw he was "a player" when he came in on trial, and he was thrown straight into the first team setup. I'm not so sure about Forino, but I seem to recall he was involved with the first team pretty quickly too.
To me, there certainly seems to be a distinction between players that are signed as development squad players, and those that are signed with a view to them being on the fringes of the first team straight away. I think the latter category applies to Mellor too, he's just not got going yet.
@YorkExile Mehmeti’s was signed with three others as the start of the development squad. Even if people at the club saw him as a potential starter right away, it wasn’t announced that way.
Absolutely, I was simply commenting on the likelihood of us having signed him anyway in the absence of a development squad, which I get the impression we would have done. I'm certainly not talking down the development squad approach, and I am very hopeful that it will continue to reap dividends in future. However, I feel like a better yardstick will be in the development of players that we have kept on over a longer period who perhaps wouldn't have got a look in otherwise, or would have been released sooner, due to limitations on the size of the first team squad.
He didn't make the first team immediately either - I remember a Gaz interview where he talked about how we'd failed to find the right passes to unlock the opposite defence and said it's something we're looking at, we actually think we've got the player who can do that in the club already, watch this space.
Think it's easy to assume that those that break through were already the real deal and were the most impressive in scouting, Maybe others would have been more prominent or prioritised, remember Dobbo saying a couple of years back that people needed to deliver within a couple of months, otherwise they are a burden on limited resources. Wonder how they now sum up the signing of KaiKai.
Kaikai has been a puzzling error. Signed him from a higher level so no doubt expensive. Rarely given much of a chance. Has delivered sporadically when he has been given a chance. Personally I think he was a classic case of signing a good player but not knowing what to do with him. Our formation rarely allows for a winger and the number 10 role is rarely used either.
A pay off in January wouldn’t surprise me as we’re not gonna change to accommodate him.
I think it was on Sky Sports immediately after winning the play-off final against Oxford that somebody asked O'Neill if Ainsworth was the greatest Wycombe manager of all time. He said that he was, without a doubt, the greatest.
So if the greatest Wycombe manager of all time declares Ainsworth to be the greatest Wycombe manager of all time then that's good enough for me.
I’m probably showing up my football ignorance here, but how do the “development players” actually get developed?
okay, I get that they train probably five days a week with the experienced professionals, but they seem to have very little opportunity to play a proper football game in a Wycombe shirt. These days there don’t seem to be reserve team leagues. Then it seems they get a precious few minutes, possibly coming off the bench if lucky or maybe a run out in the pizza cup before we get knocked out. When that happens, they then get farmed out to a National League south side is playing football far below the standard of league one. How does this enable us to evaluate whether they are any good long-term or short-term for the first team ?
We've recently lost Bloomfield and the keeper coach, so how many actual coaches do we have all in, across first team and development squad?
And how does such thin resources work for varying positions etc.
I guess a lot of the development is gym stuff and fitness, of which there are other professionals there.
But if you've got say, a one year contract, and it's November and you're farmed off to some non league club 2-3 levels below, is that just for games? Do they still train with us? If not, you're putting their development into presumably a lesser skilled club's hands?
Comments
Tbh I prefer Gorman style at least we where attacking and played well these days we play shithousery football to win games
For once I sort of agree with you.
Gaz is akin to Martin. Possibly sliding above him but it's certainly not an unarguable "without doubt" situation.
Do you really think Gareth has achieved more than martin O'Neil at this club in terms of success? I'm pretty sure most fans wouldn't agree with that.
He was agreeing with you Trev.
To be fair to Trev, he's not got much experience of what that feels like
We are all @trevor’s now…
Interesting @Malone ! Who made that comparison ?
Assuming you’re still here.
A few shimmering apes.
Couple of quick responses @eric_plant.
My main complaint about recent performances has been the constant resort to hoofball once the more attractive stuff has failed to produce goals. It is self-evidently not working and I’m not convinced it would work if any other affordable target man was playing there.
Some hoofed balls inevitably sailed over Vokes’ head on Saturday but, as @bluntphil commented, Raglan was constantly beating him to the ball. He’d have had difficulty doing that if the ball was miles above their heads!
You say the players voted Vokes player of the season last season. I defer to your better memory on that one but I’m not sure what relevance it has to the present season..
As you must know by now, I would be delighted to witness a really good performance by Sam Vokes and I’d be the first to acknowledge it.
Haven’t seen any comments comparing De Barre with Sam Vokes. Shimmering apes in cloud cuckoo land on the face of it but difficult to make valid comparisons on the strength of a couple of fleeting appearances. Chalk and cheese, I’d have thought.
Why am I taking any of this seriously? I’ve a life to live.
I wonder if any normal apes look at shimmering apes sadly and think "I just want to shimmer like that."
Or like their sister Kate.
An English man, an Irish man and a Welsh man walk into De Barr...
Did you think Vokes performed well last season? And if not, what explains how he scored so many goals?
... and De Barr says: “Is this some kind of joke?”
Giant honeybees "shimmer"
Well, put it this way, @Chris, if anyone in the current squad scores 17 goals this season I will be delighted. Logically, if Vokes is playing anywhere near as well this season as he did last season, we might reasonably expect him to score 15-20 this season. It’s what he’s there for.
On a positive note, I think he does a fair bit of good defensive work at corners. Opposition corners, that is !!
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=lpQ_pWev24w&feature=share
I forgot that the majority of Gasroomers would be blissfully ignorant of this fine old song !
”Where ignorance is bliss, Tis folly to be wise” - a quote from an ode by Thomas Gray.
Love that. Wasn't really sure where I was going with that to be honest....
I'm not so sure. I think we'd have almost certainly signed Mehmeti, irrespective of having a development squad or not. Unless my memory deceives me, Gaz is on record as saying that they immediately saw he was "a player" when he came in on trial, and he was thrown straight into the first team setup. I'm not so sure about Forino, but I seem to recall he was involved with the first team pretty quickly too.
To me, there certainly seems to be a distinction between players that are signed as development squad players, and those that are signed with a view to them being on the fringes of the first team straight away. I think the latter category applies to Mellor too, he's just not got going yet.
@YorkExile Mehmeti’s was signed with three others as the start of the development squad. Even if people at the club saw him as a potential starter right away, it wasn’t announced that way.
I think Jasper Pattenden and Jack Young may also have been seen as likely to make the first team squad fairly quickly.
Absolutely, I was simply commenting on the likelihood of us having signed him anyway in the absence of a development squad, which I get the impression we would have done. I'm certainly not talking down the development squad approach, and I am very hopeful that it will continue to reap dividends in future. However, I feel like a better yardstick will be in the development of players that we have kept on over a longer period who perhaps wouldn't have got a look in otherwise, or would have been released sooner, due to limitations on the size of the first team squad.
He didn't make the first team immediately either - I remember a Gaz interview where he talked about how we'd failed to find the right passes to unlock the opposite defence and said it's something we're looking at, we actually think we've got the player who can do that in the club already, watch this space.
Think it's easy to assume that those that break through were already the real deal and were the most impressive in scouting, Maybe others would have been more prominent or prioritised, remember Dobbo saying a couple of years back that people needed to deliver within a couple of months, otherwise they are a burden on limited resources. Wonder how they now sum up the signing of KaiKai.
Kaikai has been a puzzling error. Signed him from a higher level so no doubt expensive. Rarely given much of a chance. Has delivered sporadically when he has been given a chance. Personally I think he was a classic case of signing a good player but not knowing what to do with him. Our formation rarely allows for a winger and the number 10 role is rarely used either.
A pay off in January wouldn’t surprise me as we’re not gonna change to accommodate him.
Blackpool went up the summer we signed him, so being higher level is a bit of a technicality as he didn't play in the champ for them.
Wiki is also unclear whether the 3rd year which was an "option" was taken up or not so was he "free" within contract, or free having been released?
However, you're probably right, he's probably on a substantial wage for his availability for us!
I think it was on Sky Sports immediately after winning the play-off final against Oxford that somebody asked O'Neill if Ainsworth was the greatest Wycombe manager of all time. He said that he was, without a doubt, the greatest.
So if the greatest Wycombe manager of all time declares Ainsworth to be the greatest Wycombe manager of all time then that's good enough for me.
I’m probably showing up my football ignorance here, but how do the “development players” actually get developed?
okay, I get that they train probably five days a week with the experienced professionals, but they seem to have very little opportunity to play a proper football game in a Wycombe shirt. These days there don’t seem to be reserve team leagues. Then it seems they get a precious few minutes, possibly coming off the bench if lucky or maybe a run out in the pizza cup before we get knocked out. When that happens, they then get farmed out to a National League south side is playing football far below the standard of league one. How does this enable us to evaluate whether they are any good long-term or short-term for the first team ?
A great question really.
We've recently lost Bloomfield and the keeper coach, so how many actual coaches do we have all in, across first team and development squad?
And how does such thin resources work for varying positions etc.
I guess a lot of the development is gym stuff and fitness, of which there are other professionals there.
But if you've got say, a one year contract, and it's November and you're farmed off to some non league club 2-3 levels below, is that just for games? Do they still train with us? If not, you're putting their development into presumably a lesser skilled club's hands?