Looked quite handy at Brockenhurst, short powerful wide forward, raw and all that, one for the future. I know we have other priorities as well but good to see the numbers tick up , hopefully they can play some games and impress.
Good on paper as are the rest - however, no point if we dont play them and one year later release them. There not all gunna get the chances Forino, Mehmetti and Dickinson get.
You obviously don’t get the meaning of Development squad. How can we discover what their potential is if we don’t have a close look at them for a year? If we consider them to have promise we keep them, if we don’t we release them.
And we can't field a B team against opposition if its' just 3 or 4 top talents. We need at least 11 development + a subs bench each week of more development players and 1st teamers requiring full fitness.
At the same time as the development squad being a positive thing, what percentage are going to be worthwhile investments? We are paying them all wages that ultimately costs us fans (£9 burgers etc), and unless they break through and demand a fee when moving on, it's a waste of time.
To be worthy of a fee they need to be playing. Full stop. Otherwise they get released and disappear into the abyss.
I'd estimate that Mehmeti and Forino could be worth £500k - £1m a piece based on them moving on now in today's market...but we need to be giving players a chance/put them in the shop window in order to make it sustainable.
My other concern is, are we wasting these kids' time? How much football does the development team actually play? They need to be in a competitive league.
It's everything that is wrong with English football.
Our development squad is everything that is wrong with English football? That escalated quickly into an unexpected and somewhat bizarre take. I would have thought that giving young lads for whom there is a high likelihood of dropping out of the professional game a shot at rebuilding a football career would be viewed a little more positively. The vast majority head out on loan for initial first team opportunities remember, opportunities they may well not have gotten were they not with us.
We only need one Memehti or Forino for every 10 players we pick up for it to benefit the first team or turn a huge profit. So far the model is working. Mad that people are declaring it a bad thing. When we didn't have an academy everyone moaned about that too.
We probably don't even need one for every 10! I also noticed that the latest pair of development signings joined on "development squad contracts" - is this a change?
I couldn’t disagree more. You say that the development squad is a positive thing then go on to rip it apart. ‘They need to be playing’ you say. Well, four games into this season no fewer than seven players from the squad have appeared in League 1 and almost the entire squad played in the Carabao Cup. Then you estimate that Mehmeti and Forino alone could be worth £2m, enough to pay the development squad wages for the next few seasons if your guess is accurate.
‘Wasting these lads time’ ? Every one of them were overjoyed to get the chance to sign for a pro club. How else would they get the opportunity to make a career in the game?
Excellent post @glasshalffull. I hope as many people as possible read it. It dispels some widely held misapprehensions about the great value of the Squad Development System - slight but deliberate misnomer!
I think the the setup we have is likely to see less "waste" than a traditional youth setup that needs squads to play in leagues at all age levels. There are a small number of players that have already been through those systems for years and with us on trial and both player and coaches will know what to expect and where they have potential that can be developed. They are also far closer to the first team and manager and will see the standards expected in pro football and their direct competition in the squad.
Transfer value very difficult to define, we've been caught out at times with players nearing the end of contract or getting offers the staff don't want to force the players to miss out on, ultimately if Anis keeps going, we were to get in the championship, is kept on a long contract which will necessitate regular pay rises and gets some public interest from several clubs at the same time he could be worth a huge amount.
Anis attracts a lot of well deserved praise because he’s so exciting to watch, but I think Forino is also capable of having a great career. He’s big, strong, quick, heads the ball well, useful with his feet and has a winning mentality.
I think you have misunderstood the third paragraph of @thecatwwfc’s post @eric_plant. He wasn’t talking respectively - just quoting a range from £500k to £1m within which either or both could currently be worth.
Give Forino another season (or hopefully two) and I think he will be worth really big bucks.
I’d need to see much more consistency from Mehmeti before I’d say the same about him.
No I’ve heard that term before when we’ve added players to the development squad in the past. It makes sense to differentiate it as the nature of the contract is probably quite a bit different to a first team or squad player.
I think it’s great that we’re adding so many players to this development squad. As people have pointed out, we can’t just have 4/5 players and call it a ‘development squad’, long term I imagine there needs to be 15-20 players purely on development contracts (we might be getting close to that already), who can then eventually run their own sessions and play regular matches if the first team squad are otherwise engaged. Plus - these players are unlikely to be on very much money at all considering most are using this as their first venture into professional football, and the more prospects we have, the more chance we have of 1 or 2 breaking through every year.
Of everything going on the club right now, the development squad is what excites me the most and is what I think will end up being GA’s legacy if he was to ever move on.
Exactly this - even if we bring in a player at 18 and by 21 they’re still just on the fringe and considered a squad player who occasionally makes the bench, it’s still cover we’d have needed to go out and sign and therefore pay an agent’s fee, possibly a transfer fee and almost certainly a higher level of wages.
Completely agree, I just meant Anis was far closer to being the finished article than Chris.
Once he (Forino) adds consistency to his game we will find it difficult to hang on to him, but he's not there yet. But he's got the talent as anyone who was at that Sheff Weds game will know (that remains the most scandalous sponsors MOTM decision of all time)
I think the Development squad play at least once a week during the season and most of those aren't disclosed by the club as there will also be a (few players called) trialist within the squad. These players will be well aware that there might be potential scouts from other teams at these games as well at reports going back to GA on who plays well and who doesn't. So while these are "Friendlies", the Dev side will never see it as one.
I do believe that the club should look to register the squad in an U23 league so that they will be exposed to different challenging and environments which will aid the players' development.
All of these players have been signed under no false image and would have been told to train hard, talk to and learn from the squad, listen to the advice being offered and maybe you'll get your opportunity before they put pen to paper. Gareth & his staff will also be looking at their personality, "How are they coping with not playing league football?" If you have a Dev player who throws his toys out after a few weeks because he isn't been given an opportunity, GA & the club will show him the door either as a loan or not to come back. If they perform while being away from the club then it gives GA something to think about on their return.
Comments
Looked quite handy at Brockenhurst, short powerful wide forward, raw and all that, one for the future. I know we have other priorities as well but good to see the numbers tick up , hopefully they can play some games and impress.
How much room do we have for development players or is that uncapped?
No limit on U21s.
Good on paper as are the rest - however, no point if we dont play them and one year later release them. There not all gunna get the chances Forino, Mehmetti and Dickinson get.
Good signing, but he's not a wartime consigliere
😂😂😂
You obviously don’t get the meaning of Development squad. How can we discover what their potential is if we don’t have a close look at them for a year? If we consider them to have promise we keep them, if we don’t we release them.
And we can't field a B team against opposition if its' just 3 or 4 top talents. We need at least 11 development + a subs bench each week of more development players and 1st teamers requiring full fitness.
I got momentarily excited and thought we'd signed Carl Sagan.
He'd have been our star signing
the development squad does not need bulking out , our 1st team does !
First team squad has a limit though. How are you getting around that?
At the same time as the development squad being a positive thing, what percentage are going to be worthwhile investments? We are paying them all wages that ultimately costs us fans (£9 burgers etc), and unless they break through and demand a fee when moving on, it's a waste of time.
To be worthy of a fee they need to be playing. Full stop. Otherwise they get released and disappear into the abyss.
I'd estimate that Mehmeti and Forino could be worth £500k - £1m a piece based on them moving on now in today's market...but we need to be giving players a chance/put them in the shop window in order to make it sustainable.
My other concern is, are we wasting these kids' time? How much football does the development team actually play? They need to be in a competitive league.
It's everything that is wrong with English football.
Our development squad is everything that is wrong with English football? That escalated quickly into an unexpected and somewhat bizarre take. I would have thought that giving young lads for whom there is a high likelihood of dropping out of the professional game a shot at rebuilding a football career would be viewed a little more positively. The vast majority head out on loan for initial first team opportunities remember, opportunities they may well not have gotten were they not with us.
We only need one Memehti or Forino for every 10 players we pick up for it to benefit the first team or turn a huge profit. So far the model is working. Mad that people are declaring it a bad thing. When we didn't have an academy everyone moaned about that too.
We probably don't even need one for every 10! I also noticed that the latest pair of development signings joined on "development squad contracts" - is this a change?
I couldn’t disagree more. You say that the development squad is a positive thing then go on to rip it apart. ‘They need to be playing’ you say. Well, four games into this season no fewer than seven players from the squad have appeared in League 1 and almost the entire squad played in the Carabao Cup. Then you estimate that Mehmeti and Forino alone could be worth £2m, enough to pay the development squad wages for the next few seasons if your guess is accurate.
‘Wasting these lads time’ ? Every one of them were overjoyed to get the chance to sign for a pro club. How else would they get the opportunity to make a career in the game?
Excellent post @glasshalffull. I hope as many people as possible read it. It dispels some widely held misapprehensions about the great value of the Squad Development System - slight but deliberate misnomer!
I think Anis undervalued and Forino overvalued in the above, but I agree with the core sentiment
I think the the setup we have is likely to see less "waste" than a traditional youth setup that needs squads to play in leagues at all age levels. There are a small number of players that have already been through those systems for years and with us on trial and both player and coaches will know what to expect and where they have potential that can be developed. They are also far closer to the first team and manager and will see the standards expected in pro football and their direct competition in the squad.
Transfer value very difficult to define, we've been caught out at times with players nearing the end of contract or getting offers the staff don't want to force the players to miss out on, ultimately if Anis keeps going, we were to get in the championship, is kept on a long contract which will necessitate regular pay rises and gets some public interest from several clubs at the same time he could be worth a huge amount.
Anis attracts a lot of well deserved praise because he’s so exciting to watch, but I think Forino is also capable of having a great career. He’s big, strong, quick, heads the ball well, useful with his feet and has a winning mentality.
I think you have misunderstood the third paragraph of @thecatwwfc’s post @eric_plant. He wasn’t talking respectively - just quoting a range from £500k to £1m within which either or both could currently be worth.
Give Forino another season (or hopefully two) and I think he will be worth really big bucks.
I’d need to see much more consistency from Mehmeti before I’d say the same about him.
No I’ve heard that term before when we’ve added players to the development squad in the past. It makes sense to differentiate it as the nature of the contract is probably quite a bit different to a first team or squad player.
I think it’s great that we’re adding so many players to this development squad. As people have pointed out, we can’t just have 4/5 players and call it a ‘development squad’, long term I imagine there needs to be 15-20 players purely on development contracts (we might be getting close to that already), who can then eventually run their own sessions and play regular matches if the first team squad are otherwise engaged. Plus - these players are unlikely to be on very much money at all considering most are using this as their first venture into professional football, and the more prospects we have, the more chance we have of 1 or 2 breaking through every year.
Of everything going on the club right now, the development squad is what excites me the most and is what I think will end up being GA’s legacy if he was to ever move on.
The value of these development squad players isn't just measured in the monetary amount of any transfer sale.
The system has value every time it provide genuine first team squad members.
Do we really think Mehmeti & Forino, for example, only have value if we actually sell them to another club?
Exactly this - even if we bring in a player at 18 and by 21 they’re still just on the fringe and considered a squad player who occasionally makes the bench, it’s still cover we’d have needed to go out and sign and therefore pay an agent’s fee, possibly a transfer fee and almost certainly a higher level of wages.
Completely agree, I just meant Anis was far closer to being the finished article than Chris.
Once he (Forino) adds consistency to his game we will find it difficult to hang on to him, but he's not there yet. But he's got the talent as anyone who was at that Sheff Weds game will know (that remains the most scandalous sponsors MOTM decision of all time)
I would actually say Forino is more consistent than Anis now. However, classy midfielders tend to be more sought after in terms of transfer value.
Really? Don't see it myself
I think the Development squad play at least once a week during the season and most of those aren't disclosed by the club as there will also be a (few players called) trialist within the squad. These players will be well aware that there might be potential scouts from other teams at these games as well at reports going back to GA on who plays well and who doesn't. So while these are "Friendlies", the Dev side will never see it as one.
I do believe that the club should look to register the squad in an U23 league so that they will be exposed to different challenging and environments which will aid the players' development.
All of these players have been signed under no false image and would have been told to train hard, talk to and learn from the squad, listen to the advice being offered and maybe you'll get your opportunity before they put pen to paper. Gareth & his staff will also be looking at their personality, "How are they coping with not playing league football?" If you have a Dev player who throws his toys out after a few weeks because he isn't been given an opportunity, GA & the club will show him the door either as a loan or not to come back. If they perform while being away from the club then it gives GA something to think about on their return.