He was right about the League...that's what makes a manager...luck can win you a cup (for example you could progress on penalties without winning a game ! ). Can you imagine thinking there are too many games in 1980? @johnthehair spot on. Half the fun of football is officials 'making mistakes' which is why I don't like VAR. As you probably know @eric_plant Old Big Ed used to fine players for arguing with the ref
Once you've watched the game and heard the managers...everything else is just blather. I seem to recall reading the Secret Footballer about his experience of being a pundit...he claimed they barely watched the games and someone more or less tells them what to discuss. Hard as it is sometimes, we all know @eric_plant and Cloughie are right about referees. It's a crappy job and they have seconds to make a decision and if it's to our advantage you tend to chuckle and shrug and if it is to your opponent it is the worst decision ever. That's football!
It does have to be one of the hardest jobs in the world. Can you imagine having a job that relies on observation, and then having thousands (sometimes tends of thousans) of fans observing the same thing in the same stadium from different angles, and then perhaps millions watching in slow motion on TV? Not only that, but you will get dog's abuse if you have the temerity to miss something.
@Shev said:
It does have to be one of the hardest jobs in the world. Can you imagine having a job that relies on observation, and then having thousands (sometimes tends of thousans) of fans observing the same thing in the same stadium from different angles, and then perhaps millions watching in slow motion on TV? Not only that, but you will get dog's abuse if you have the temerity to miss something.
But that's only true if you stick to the same old routine of trying to pick the bones out of match events, which as you say thousands have witnessed anyway.
If the pundits changed tack occasionally and tried to give more insight into the tactics employed, for example, and did or didn't they prove effective and why then their job mightn't be so hard.
I realise that there is some danger in the pundits being asked to give opinion on tactics, as they'd never please everybody but it might make the pundit section more watchable.
@Twizz. Very good comment. It is amazing how much slack we cut ex-player co-commentators and pundits for that very reason. There are so many things about the game that they could (in theory) provide insight into, but instead they tend to just repeat what the main play-by-play says.
Ball is hit into the net from 25 yards.
"What a glorious goal from long range!" says the main commentator.
"He really caught that. Put his boot right through it." says the ex-player on comms.
Thankfully, we have @bluntphil, @glasshalffull, Alicia, Bill Turnbull, Matt Cecil and the like, who manage to take the cliches right out of commentary.
I’ve always followed Forest so have seen this clip a few times, I know I’m biased but I think it’s brilliant!
Also, for what it’s worth, my son who loves football has no interest in what the pundits say. Gets up on a Sunday and Monday and watches MOTD / Quest / MOTD2. He watches the games intently, does tend to listen to the managers but literally fast forwards through the studio talk.
Also when you then clock how much time is spent talking compared to gameplay it is quite surprising.
Every time I watch him fast forward through it jogs my memory into Cloughie say “shut up, and show more football”! It’s also still so relevant overall today. It’s very true, you don’t often hear the sympathy for the officials in context to the decision making time and crowd pressure etc (even before VAR I should add).
The list of pundits I have enjoyed is pretty short. Saint and Greavesy were on when I was a youngster and I remember them with great fondness, then Alan Hansen and then there's Ian Wright. I have not necessarily enjoyed any of them for their tactical insight (although that is not to say than none of them offered any insight), more for their enthusiasm for the game, their charisma and their brevity.
Back to Clough though, Tony Benn used to say that in politics there are signposts and weather vanes and whilst he may disagree with someone's politics he could at least respect the signposts. Brian Clough was most definitely a signpost.
The idea of watching Match of the day feels so outdated as a concept these days!
With so many outlets to either watch the games live, or see the goals almost instantly, hanging on for a late evening program is like something pre internet.
Imagine the frustration we pre mobile types used to suffer. Nice piece from @Twizz on another thread (sorry, can’t remember which one) about his dad repeatedly phoning the original Ringing the Blues, at great expense, for the latest from Ayresome Park in January 1975.
I can remember for a period there in the late 70s there was a technicians strike and TOTP was made up of promo videos and recorded studio spots that were obviously in the can. It was far superior to watching the (then) old git DJs in their jumpers trying to be funny to impress the girls that had been forced to stand next to them. I like MOTD, but just have a presenter and show more of the games. It would save the BBC a fortune. I don't care how old players think Southampton will finish the season or what players West Ham are lacking. Perhaps a tactics show the next day on iplayer for those who want to listen to the pundits bang on. If only there had been someone powerful enough at Forest to warn Brian off the booze we might have lasted a bit longer in the top flight!
After a game in London, way back when, I used to look forward to buying the late edition of the Evening Standard or News, with all that day's football scores in. Pink'uns I believe they used to be called.
I also looked forward to half-time when wooden boards with other teams scores on, would be shown at the side of the pitch. I particularly remember that at White Hart Lane.
Watching the vidiprinter in a TV shop window was another of life's pleasures. Simple times.
@username123 said:
I’ve always followed Forest so have seen this clip a few times, I know I’m biased but I think it’s brilliant!
Also, for what it’s worth, my son who loves football has no interest in what the pundits say. Gets up on a Sunday and Monday and watches MOTD / Quest / MOTD2. He watches the games intently, does tend to listen to the managers but literally fast forwards through the studio talk.
Also when you then clock how much time is spent talking compared to gameplay it is quite surprising.
Every time I watch him fast forward through it jogs my memory into Cloughie say “shut up, and show more football”! It’s also still so relevant overall today. It’s very true, you don’t often hear the sympathy for the officials in context to the decision making time and crowd pressure etc (even before VAR I should add).
My understanding is that there is a limit to the amount of action that they can show. You could cut back on the chat/analysis, but you you wouldn't get any more football.
The sections I dislike the most are the 30 second chats with the managers as they take it in turns to blame the officials for their failings.
I think many of the highlights programmes would benefit from focusing the chat/analysis on far fewer matches, with just the goals from the others
I think many of the highlights programmes would benefit from focusing the chat/analysis on far fewer matches, with just the goals from the others
They more or less do these days...you know the last four matches will be lucky to get five mins.
You could be right about the minutes there @bicester_blue those sports broadcasting contracts are mightily complex things...
I love MOTD. Bit like the discussion we've had on here about world cups, it's a direct link all the way back to my childhood and has been a constant in my life ever since
If I was only allowed to watch one programme for the rest of my life it would be that
Comments
Interesting comments. MOTD is far better recorded and then fast forward the crap.
Absolutely spot on about referees
He was right about the League...that's what makes a manager...luck can win you a cup (for example you could progress on penalties without winning a game !
). Can you imagine thinking there are too many games in 1980? @johnthehair spot on. Half the fun of football is officials 'making mistakes' which is why I don't like VAR. As you probably know @eric_plant Old Big Ed used to fine players for arguing with the ref
Agreed. I always start watching at least 15 minutes behind so I can fast forward the dragged out ‘analysis’ of the first couple of games.
Shearer is fine. Murphy and Jenas, on the other hand...
Once you've watched the game and heard the managers...everything else is just blather. I seem to recall reading the Secret Footballer about his experience of being a pundit...he claimed they barely watched the games and someone more or less tells them what to discuss. Hard as it is sometimes, we all know @eric_plant and Cloughie are right about referees. It's a crappy job and they have seconds to make a decision and if it's to our advantage you tend to chuckle and shrug and if it is to your opponent it is the worst decision ever. That's football!
It does have to be one of the hardest jobs in the world. Can you imagine having a job that relies on observation, and then having thousands (sometimes tends of thousans) of fans observing the same thing in the same stadium from different angles, and then perhaps millions watching in slow motion on TV? Not only that, but you will get dog's abuse if you have the temerity to miss something.
That interview was pure Clough, brilliant!
But that's only true if you stick to the same old routine of trying to pick the bones out of match events, which as you say thousands have witnessed anyway.
If the pundits changed tack occasionally and tried to give more insight into the tactics employed, for example, and did or didn't they prove effective and why then their job mightn't be so hard.
I realise that there is some danger in the pundits being asked to give opinion on tactics, as they'd never please everybody but it might make the pundit section more watchable.
@Twizz. Very good comment. It is amazing how much slack we cut ex-player co-commentators and pundits for that very reason. There are so many things about the game that they could (in theory) provide insight into, but instead they tend to just repeat what the main play-by-play says.
Thankfully, we have @bluntphil, @glasshalffull, Alicia, Bill Turnbull, Matt Cecil and the like, who manage to take the cliches right out of commentary.
Love him…’Bob’s an ex-school teacher, isn’t he?’ And of course Bob Wilson had come through school coaching I think.
‘Shut up and show more football’
Marvellous,
I’ve always followed Forest so have seen this clip a few times, I know I’m biased but I think it’s brilliant!
Also, for what it’s worth, my son who loves football has no interest in what the pundits say. Gets up on a Sunday and Monday and watches MOTD / Quest / MOTD2. He watches the games intently, does tend to listen to the managers but literally fast forwards through the studio talk.
Also when you then clock how much time is spent talking compared to gameplay it is quite surprising.
Every time I watch him fast forward through it jogs my memory into Cloughie say “shut up, and show more football”! It’s also still so relevant overall today. It’s very true, you don’t often hear the sympathy for the officials in context to the decision making time and crowd pressure etc (even before VAR I should add).
The list of pundits I have enjoyed is pretty short. Saint and Greavesy were on when I was a youngster and I remember them with great fondness, then Alan Hansen and then there's Ian Wright. I have not necessarily enjoyed any of them for their tactical insight (although that is not to say than none of them offered any insight), more for their enthusiasm for the game, their charisma and their brevity.
Back to Clough though, Tony Benn used to say that in politics there are signposts and weather vanes and whilst he may disagree with someone's politics he could at least respect the signposts. Brian Clough was most definitely a signpost.
The idea of watching Match of the day feels so outdated as a concept these days!
With so many outlets to either watch the games live, or see the goals almost instantly, hanging on for a late evening program is like something pre internet.
(I feel like @ReturnToSenda !)
@Malone What is this "pre internet" you speak of? Sounds rubbish.
Imagine the frustration we pre mobile types used to suffer. Nice piece from @Twizz on another thread (sorry, can’t remember which one) about his dad repeatedly phoning the original Ringing the Blues, at great expense, for the latest from Ayresome Park in January 1975.
We had a school hockey session at the sports centre in the mid 90s.
Teacher bursts in...Cole's signed for United.
Huge disbelief all round.
Had to wait until the evening to check it on ceefax!
That's how bad it was!
I can remember for a period there in the late 70s there was a technicians strike and TOTP was made up of promo videos and recorded studio spots that were obviously in the can. It was far superior to watching the (then) old git DJs in their jumpers trying to be funny to impress the girls that had been forced to stand next to them. I like MOTD, but just have a presenter and show more of the games. It would save the BBC a fortune. I don't care how old players think Southampton will finish the season or what players West Ham are lacking. Perhaps a tactics show the next day on iplayer for those who want to listen to the pundits bang on. If only there had been someone powerful enough at Forest to warn Brian off the booze we might have lasted a bit longer in the top flight!
After a game in London, way back when, I used to look forward to buying the late edition of the Evening Standard or News, with all that day's football scores in. Pink'uns I believe they used to be called.
I also looked forward to half-time when wooden boards with other teams scores on, would be shown at the side of the pitch. I particularly remember that at White Hart Lane.
Watching the vidiprinter in a TV shop window was another of life's pleasures. Simple times.
how we used to find out half time scores at Forest (the alphabet key was printed in the programme)
I loved pre-internet! People had attention spans and could not text to bail out of a meet up. Good times!
My understanding is that there is a limit to the amount of action that they can show. You could cut back on the chat/analysis, but you you wouldn't get any more football.
The sections I dislike the most are the 30 second chats with the managers as they take it in turns to blame the officials for their failings.
I think many of the highlights programmes would benefit from focusing the chat/analysis on far fewer matches, with just the goals from the others
They more or less do these days...you know the last four matches will be lucky to get five mins.
You could be right about the minutes there @bicester_blue those sports broadcasting contracts are mightily complex things...
I love MOTD. Bit like the discussion we've had on here about world cups, it's a direct link all the way back to my childhood and has been a constant in my life ever since
If I was only allowed to watch one programme for the rest of my life it would be that
I still watch math of the day, not religiously every week, but more often than not
Match even... never did like maths
Damn. I was busy with the Sky remote trying to find that exciting Math programme and now you tell me it doesn’t exist.
With some of the rubbish on TV surely there’s a gap for it?
Indeed the have managed to make spelling, sewing and make-up competition events.
I want to see more competition plumbing and carpentry.