I actually think England have some great young players but I’m not sure about Southgate who reminds me of an assistant manager at a provincial building society
England tend to beat who they should beat (Iceland aside) but struggle against really top sides. Have we beaten Germany, France, Italy, Portugal, Netherlands, Spain, Argentina or Brazil in the knockout stages of a tournament since 1966? I can only think of penalties over Spain in 1996.
Obviously the past is not an infallible indicator of the future - after all, Spain were underachievers until they suddenly were not, winning three tournaments on the spin. I just don't feel like anything has really changed as far as England's place in the football galaxy. Really good players, perhaps even one or two 'world class', but missing those X factors which would help us overcome the really talented sides. Our two most iconic tournaments since 1966 (to my mind) both involved Paul Gascoigne, and I don't think that is a coincidence.
@Cyclops said:
England beat Holland 4-1 in Euro '96 as well.
If we include group games then we also beat Germany in 2000 and Argentina in 2002. I limited it to knockout as it would eliminate any 'down years' for those countries a little more. If they make the knockouts, they are a force to be reckoned with.
Poland stuffed us out in the "qualifiers" for the '74 World Cup, so we never even got to West Germany. But you are right - England's record in the big games is not good at all.
The sad thing is that there are major "what might have beens" for all nine.
5 shoots outs.
1 Hand of the Devil.
1 taking Bobby Charlton off too soon in 1970 when 2-0 up.
1 audacious lob over Seaman when we had initially led (2002).
1 missed equalizer when the ball was over the line (2010)
The last one is the least agonizing, as we lost 4-1, but the game could have unfolded differently had it been allowed. Not too upset about Italy either, as we were pretty negative, and seemed to play for pens.
The Southgate interview today didn’t inspire me. He commented that England being 1-0 up against Croatia in the first match meant that they could take Kane off as they didn’t need another goal. Mathematically correct obviously but wouldn’t it be nice to just go for a bigger margin.
I can't believe he mentioned Sancho's lack of tournament experience as, seemingly, some kind of excuse for not playing him. Er, how many tournament games had James, Mings, Rice, Phillips, Bellingham, Mount, Foden and DCL played before this summer, Gareth? He should be starting on Tuesday.
Really don't rate Southgate. We had a very favorable run to the semi's in 2018, then got knocked out by an average team not to mention getting beat by Belgium twice. I said before the tournament started we'll scrape through the group and get knocked out in the last 16. Can't help thinking this squad is wasted on Southgate.
@ReturnToSenda said:
I can't believe he mentioned Sancho's lack of tournament experience as, seemingly, some kind of excuse for not playing him. Er, how many tournament games had James, Mings, Rice, Phillips, Bellingham, Mount, Foden and DCL played before this summer, Gareth? He should be starting on Tuesday
Did he cover how playing "JLingz" for a game and half as a warm up for his trip to Benidorm was supposed to help with that?
@ReturnToSenda said:
I can't believe he mentioned Sancho's lack of tournament experience as, seemingly, some kind of excuse for not playing him. Er, how many tournament games had James, Mings, Rice, Phillips, Bellingham, Mount, Foden and DCL played before this summer, Gareth? He should be starting on Tuesday
Did he cover how playing "JLingz" for a game and half as a warm up for his trip to Benidorm was supposed to help with that?
There's been some very funny tabloid reactions to England drawing nil nil to Scotland. I'm not sure who to give the trophy to.. @ReturnToSenda or @drcongo
Southgate seems to suffer the same obsession for holding midfielders that Paul Lambert did.
We have some exciting talent, but am afraid Southgate seems terrified of letting them of the leash to attack.
@LX1 said:
There's been some very funny tabloid reactions to England drawing nil nil to Scotland. I'm not sure who to give the trophy to.. @ReturnToSenda or @drcongo
Best not give it to me as I'd only do a Sergio Ramos
@ChasHarps said:
Southgate seems to suffer the same obsession for holding midfielders that Paul Lambert did.
We have some exciting talent, but am afraid Southgate seems terrified of letting them of the leash to attack.
This is so true. Under Southgate we are risk adverse I can only imagine an early experience has effected his confidence like his mum making him wear two sets of undercrackers to school.
@ChasHarps said:
Southgate seems to suffer the same obsession for holding midfielders that Paul Lambert did.
We have some exciting talent, but am afraid Southgate seems terrified of letting them of the leash to attack.
This is so true. Under Southgate we are risk adverse I can only imagine an early experience has effected his confidence like his mum making him wear two sets of undercrackers to school.
This is so true. Under Southgate we are risk adverse I can only imagine an early experience has effected his confidence like his mum making him wear two sets of undercrackers to school.
Either that or managing one team at club level and getting them relegated.
Robin Hood Robin Hood
Riding throught the glen
Dr congo drcongo claiming unintentions again
Feared by his expectations
Mocked by logic
Doctor congo
Doctor congo
Doctorcongo
Comments
I actually think England have some great young players but I’m not sure about Southgate who reminds me of an assistant manager at a provincial building society
England tend to beat who they should beat (Iceland aside) but struggle against really top sides. Have we beaten Germany, France, Italy, Portugal, Netherlands, Spain, Argentina or Brazil in the knockout stages of a tournament since 1966? I can only think of penalties over Spain in 1996.
Obviously the past is not an infallible indicator of the future - after all, Spain were underachievers until they suddenly were not, winning three tournaments on the spin. I just don't feel like anything has really changed as far as England's place in the football galaxy. Really good players, perhaps even one or two 'world class', but missing those X factors which would help us overcome the really talented sides. Our two most iconic tournaments since 1966 (to my mind) both involved Paul Gascoigne, and I don't think that is a coincidence.
England beat Holland 4-1 in Euro '96 as well.
If we include group games then we also beat Germany in 2000 and Argentina in 2002. I limited it to knockout as it would eliminate any 'down years' for those countries a little more. If they make the knockouts, they are a force to be reckoned with.
Oh yes... that wasn't in the knock out stage was it? My apologies.
As far as losing to those countries in the knockouts, off the top of my head:
West Germany 1974
Argentina 1986
Germany 1990
Germany 1996
Argentina 1998
Brazil 2002
Portugal 2004
Germany 2010
Italy 2012
What a fantastic win it was, though!
5 of those 9 were on penalties, too. Sigh.
Poland stuffed us out in the "qualifiers" for the '74 World Cup, so we never even got to West Germany. But you are right - England's record in the big games is not good at all.
The sad thing is that there are major "what might have beens" for all nine.
5 shoots outs.
1 Hand of the Devil.
1 taking Bobby Charlton off too soon in 1970 when 2-0 up.
1 audacious lob over Seaman when we had initially led (2002).
1 missed equalizer when the ball was over the line (2010)
The last one is the least agonizing, as we lost 4-1, but the game could have unfolded differently had it been allowed. Not too upset about Italy either, as we were pretty negative, and seemed to play for pens.
We need quality in depth, passion without fear and some luck (you always need that) or we'll continue to win nothing.
The Southgate interview today didn’t inspire me. He commented that England being 1-0 up against Croatia in the first match meant that they could take Kane off as they didn’t need another goal. Mathematically correct obviously but wouldn’t it be nice to just go for a bigger margin.
I can't believe he mentioned Sancho's lack of tournament experience as, seemingly, some kind of excuse for not playing him. Er, how many tournament games had James, Mings, Rice, Phillips, Bellingham, Mount, Foden and DCL played before this summer, Gareth? He should be starting on Tuesday.
Really don't rate Southgate. We had a very favorable run to the semi's in 2018, then got knocked out by an average team not to mention getting beat by Belgium twice. I said before the tournament started we'll scrape through the group and get knocked out in the last 16. Can't help thinking this squad is wasted on Southgate.
Did he cover how playing "JLingz" for a game and half as a warm up for his trip to Benidorm was supposed to help with that?
Maybe... Haven't seen the whole thing.
There's been some very funny tabloid reactions to England drawing nil nil to Scotland. I'm not sure who to give the trophy to.. @ReturnToSenda or @drcongo
@drcongo claiming Stones is the most skilfull header of the ball in history wins it for me
Southgate seems to suffer the same obsession for holding midfielders that Paul Lambert did.
We have some exciting talent, but am afraid Southgate seems terrified of letting them of the leash to attack.
He has never been a great manager has he. Hopefully he is just holding it up his sleeve for the knockouts. But i have my doubts
Best not give it to me as I'd only do a Sergio Ramos
He is the poorest central defender we've had for many years.
Can we start a GA to England thread yet? I miss those.
Steve Foster or Terry Fenwick were no Franco Baresi's !!
This is so true. Under Southgate we are risk adverse I can only imagine an early experience has effected his confidence like his mum making him wear two sets of undercrackers to school.
Surely he wasnt on the 'Real ale' at school !!
Either that or managing one team at club level and getting them relegated.
Yet drcongo claims he deliberately strikes the post with Robin Hood accuracy!
Robin Hood Robin Hood
Riding throught the glen
Dr congo drcongo claiming unintentions again
Feared by his expectations
Mocked by logic
Doctor congo
Doctor congo
Doctorcongo
I have no idea what is going on, but I've no opinion on John Stones whatsoever.