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Training ground

So what is the latest in the training ground? Are we having to move to Little Marlow because Ivor Beeks and the others want big money for our current training ground?

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Comments

  • Sounds totally out of character for 'Honest Ivor', I thought they brought the training ground to inject some much needed cash into the club ? And when in a position to buy it back, Ivor and his chums would sell back to the Wanderers.

  • The latest was talked about by Rob on Ringing the blues

  • I seem to remember Ivor doing us a massive favour and buying that massive plot of land for the price of a small semi detached house in Micklefield. And leasing it back to us for price of a large detached house in Beaconsfield.
    Someone correct me if I am wrong.

  • I’m not sure he should ever have been made club president but certainly has and hasn’t helped the club financially!!

  • When I heard that on RtB my thoughts immediately turned to Marlow FC's struggles to get planning permission for a ground in Little Marlow (Westhorpe Farm area if I'm not mistaken). I can't remember if the athletics track that was placed round that way after Handy Cross was redeveloped was on the site that Marlow had been trying to move to for years, or whether the Couhigs are maybe trying to get a training facility built where Marlow FC were unable to get planning permission for their new ground.

  • Or if it is all a negotiation ploy to flush out Beeks.

  • Or if it is all a negotiation ploy to flush out Beeks.

  • The fans have been lied to by the Trust for years about the training ground.

    The funding of the training ground came from our 2001 F.A. Cop run while we were a members-owned club so why should the benefit only go to three individuals and not the members themselves? "

    The training ground was valued (independently?) at 450K, the price 350K -why the discount?

    "All the Trust directors are more than satisfied that the investors (who wished to remain anonymous) have the interests of Wycombe Wanderers at heart."

    "The club talked about buying the facility back...to be negotiated in future but the Group have signed letter confirming the option." So let's see the letter...

    Many of the trust board directors, who were in charge of the training club deal at the time, still serve on the board and they should be held accountable.

    And, if they had an ounce of integrity, they would offer their resignation.

    Why Beeks remains (unelected) Life President when he and his mates have carpetbagged the training ground in full sight and why so many supporters put up with this type of crap from a Community Co-op and Community Benefit Society God alone knows.

    We also put up the board deciding not to publish accounts before the AGMs and they got away with that too.

    Football is living proof that you can fool all of the people all of the time.

  • Not all the people surely?

  • Let’s see the letter!!!

  • @NiceCarrots said:
    The fans have been lied to by the Trust for years about the training ground.

    The funding of the training ground came from our 2001 F.A. Cop run while we were a members-owned club so why should the benefit only go to three individuals and not the members themselves? "

    The training ground was valued (independently?) at 450K, the price 350K -why the discount?

    I remember thinking at the time 'feck me at Β£350k I would have found the money to pay that!!!'. And I am sure I am not alone in that. Let's face it for that relatively modest sum I am sure 10 or 20 fans could have come forward offered Β£450k and then happily taken the rental income. But no. It was all cloak and dagger dealings.

    Along with the rent being received it was an amazing deal. For Mr I Beeks anyway.

  • I remember a certain Gary Heath being rather economical with the truth, when asked a question from the floor about the mysterious group of investors.

  • @NiceCarrots said:

    Football is living proof that you can fool all of the people all of the time.

    How do I know if I’ve been fooled or who’s fooling me if we are all fools?

    Knowing half the truth isn’t enough to make these kinds of accusations

  • The Trust board stated how the TGF - who wished to remain anonymous until the Gasroom released the title from the Land Registry - were described by the Trust as "investors (who) have the interests of WWFC at heart."

    The training ground deal took place in 2013.

    The problem for the investors was that they couldn't be seen to be giving the land to themselves hence the appointment of Andrew Howard as Chairman in August 2014.

    In July 2015, Ivor Beeks was re-appointed by his neighbour, Andrew Howard, to the WWFC board.

    The investors "reluctantly instructed their solicitors to issue a notice" which meant the option for the Club to buy-back the facility had come to an end in a letter from TGFs' solicitors dated the 6th August 2015

    So March 2013 they did the deal to buy the training ground and by August 2015 they owned it outright.

    The Trust told members 'The TGF objective isn't, and never was, to derive unreasonable profits at the expense of the Club.'

  • @NiceCarrots said:
    The Trust board stated how the TGF - who wished to remain anonymous until the Gasroom released the title from the Land Registry - were described by the Trust as "investors (who) have the interests of WWFC at heart."

    The training ground deal took place in 2013.

    The problem for the investors was that they couldn't be seen to be giving the land to themselves hence the appointment of Andrew Howard as Chairman in August 2014.

    In July 2015, Ivor Beeks was re-appointed by his neighbour, Andrew Howard, to the WWFC board.

    The investors "reluctantly instructed their solicitors to issue a notice" which meant the option for the Club to buy-back the facility had come to an end in a letter from TGFs' solicitors dated the 6th August 2015

    So March 2013 they did the deal to buy the training ground and by August 2015 they owned it outright.

    The Trust told members 'The TGF objective isn't, and never was, to derive unreasonable profits at the expense of the Club.'

    And they all lived happily ever after.

  • The complete lack of transparency around the training ground deal has always stunk the place out. I’ve never seen anything offered up by any of the participants in that deal that’ll make me think otherwise.

    It certainly doesn’t scream β€˜supporter run club’ does it?

  • As I recall the training ground deal, the circumstances were

    1) The club which owned the land had a shortage of cash.
    2) Their credit risk was so bad that they couldn't find any commercial lenders willing to lend even with using the training ground land as security
    3) The planning status at the time of the training ground land severely restricts what can be done with it apart from use as a football club training pitch - meaning that it would be almost impossible to find an alternative tenant/buyer apart from WWFC
    4) The only people the club could find willing to advance cash against the training ground was the "TGF". Without this cash, it was likely that the club would go at least into administration and possibly out of business altogether.
    5) The yield (rent/purchase price) was set at a lower level - certainly below what would be expected for a financially unstable tenant.
    6) The club had an option within the agreement to repurchase the training ground if it wished to do so at an agreed price. It would only lose that option if the club defaulted on the rent
    7) the club did default on the rent -hence losing the legal repurchase option
    8) the TGF allowed the football club to continue using the training ground for an extended period despite the club not paying the agreed rent.
    9) The club is now paying the agreed rent and still using the facility. There seems to be some dispute about the future (I presume the contracted term has come to an end) but we dont know whether the TGF are seeking to seeking to increase the rent unreasonably or whether the club are seeking to reduce it or similarly in terms of selling it.
    10) Planning rules at the moment are largely unchanged - hence very hard to see what else the land could be used for.

    Nice Carrots, I may have got this wrong. If so could you point out where. Thanks.

  • Anyone who reads through all that deserves a medal

  • If Wycombe Wanderers still exists in 2090, with everyone flying around on hovercrafts and smoking space crack, we will still be arguing about this dodgy training ground deal.

  • @OxfordBlue said:
    If Wycombe Wanderers still exists in 2090, with everyone flying around on hovercrafts and smoking space crack, we will still be arguing about this dodgy training ground deal.

    And it will definitely still be a training ground, because planning!

  • That we dont know @drcongo . Looks like Johnson is about to ditch green belt and local planning decisions and concrete over our green and pleasant land. At least his mates will make a quick buck though - perhaps one of them will pay for some more wallpaper.

  • @eric_plant said:
    Anyone who reads through all that deserves a medal

    I stopped after 'the circumstances were...'

  • Question for you @DevC. Why was the deal so shrouded in mystery at the time? It should have been celebrated as great people coming forward to save our club. But it wasn't.

    At best it was swept under the carpet. Oh the commercial confidentiality thing, yes we used to hear that when WE OWNED THE CLUB. Pat on the head owners, off you go, you wouldnt understand this grown up stuff anyway. All parties involved in this transaction will be viewed as naive or opportunist or and you can choose which party best fits the term.

  • @DevC said:
    That we dont know @drcongo . Looks like Johnson is about to ditch green belt and local planning decisions and concrete over our green and pleasant land. At least his mates will make a quick buck though - perhaps one of them will pay for some more wallpaper.

    I might have mentioned it before once or twice, but in areas with a tory council "green belt" and "area of outstanding natural beauty (AONB)" have both meant nothing for a very long time. If you ever pop back to Wycombe, make sure to visit a high hill with good views. It doesn't look like you remember it.

  • My doctor keeps warning me that I will (or more likely already have) suffer brain damage from repeatedly bashing my head against a brick wall reading threads like this…

  • Like @Wendoverman, I couldn’t face reading the rest of @DevC’s post because, whatever the circumstances, it is hard to dismiss the thought that, shall we say, an opportunistic glint must have appeared in the eyes of the club’s putative saviours.

  • @drcongo said:

    @OxfordBlue said:
    If Wycombe Wanderers still exists in 2090, with everyone flying around on hovercrafts and smoking space crack, we will still be arguing about this dodgy training ground deal.

    And it will definitely still be a training ground, because planning!

    And the EFL will be 'close' on a Derby County decision...

  • @micra it will be interesting to see if @NiceCarrots who seems to be leading the case for the prosecution, corrects me on any of the facts as I remember them or whether he chooses to ignore. Its been a while, perhaps I have forgotten the facts.

    It feels like many on the jury are ready to convict regardless of facts. Perhaps he doesn't need to bother and will instead evade. That's my guess.

    @drcongo I don't think any of us wish to spend more time discussing planning law even in a close season! I tap "wycombe wanderers training ground" into google maps and strangely see a sea of green for miles around. Vast housing estates seem to be conspicuous by their absence. But I do have a suggested plan for you.
    1) get planning permission for the landowners in the area
    2) take a 10% cut of the profits those landowners will derive from selling their land for residential
    3) use it to buy the training ground (and have loads left over)
    4) Donate it back to the club on condition they rename it "congo park"

  • @DevC I completely agree with your analysis. The club desperately needed cash and there was only one asset to raise cash against and only one lender willing to lend. The fact that the club defaulted on the rent proves that the deal was not attractive to anyone other than fans of WWFC. The interest rate was very reasonable in the circumstances. No chance of planning for housing or industrial being granted on the land.

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