@DevC said:
Not sure this proves much one way or the other but as I looked it up I thought I would share with you. Its subjective of course but I looked at what I see as the smallest clubs to have reached the championship and what happened after they returned to Lg1.
Format is
name,
number of seasons in champ,
first season back in lg1 placing,
number of Lg1 playoff appearances since,
number of years in lg1 or below until they next reached lg1 playoffs
number of promotions back to the Champ
I am hopeful and optimistic for next season. We will keep most of our squad together, we will lose some key loanees (do they ever stay two seasons at one club?) but overall we will have a great squad.
@DevC said:
Not sure this proves much one way or the other but as I looked it up I thought I would share with you. Its subjective of course but I looked at what I see as the smallest clubs to have reached the championship and what happened after they returned to Lg1.
Format is
name,
number of seasons in champ,
first season back in lg1 placing,
number of Lg1 playoff appearances since,
number of years in lg1 or below until they next reached lg1 playoffs
number of promotions back to the Champ
Any separation of clubs on "small" or "big" is inevitably subjective. To some extent there is a risk that a small cub in 2004 may have got relegated in 2005 promoted in 2006 and now be seen as a "big club" when they were small then. This is the full list of championship clubs since it became the Championship. It took that as the time when the financial gaps widened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EFL_Championship_clubs.
I cut off at the seven listed above. The next four on the list I would see as a bit "bigger" but would arguably be Rotherham, Doncaster, MK and Plymouth.
No disrespect to the great teams of yesteryear...but (warning an opinion will follow) for me this is the best set of players and strongest team we've had under Gareth while I've been an ST holder so I expect us to be extremely competitive next term. I thought we were playing well and would have made the L1 play-offs anyway before the lay-offs so the idea that this team will suddenly fold after a season in the second tier to become a poor mid-table side on our return in front of crowds seems very pessimistic to me. I know it's the hope that kills yer but even so...
“Team” is often incorrectly used to refer to a club or squad. In the context of potential to challenge for a return to the Championship, we have to think in terms of the squad. Yes, the team (or teams, if we go back to the start of the much improved performances and results) certainly has that potential but we simply don’t know how many of the key players in that run (Knight, Adeniran, Muskwe, Mehmeti, for example) will still be with us.
For that reason I will not be speculating on our prospects (beyond what I’ve already said in vague and general terms) until I know who’s leaving, who’s staying and who’s made the wise decision to join us on the next stage of this epic journey.
but @micra none of those players were in the squad that came up...the nucleus (excepting Bayo and Blooms) will either largely be the same and improved by Taffs and Uche with Kashket, Gape and Samuel coming back into contention. The players you mention would indeed be severely missed if we were in the Championship, but I am still pretty sure we will have a competitive Squad (including some new faces) for next season.
Add to that McLeary, Horgan and hopefully Mehmeti and that actually does look a competitive team to me.
Having been the bookies favourites to get relegated for the past 3 seasons it will be interesting to see how we are rated this summer.
The small rational side of me says we should be challenging. The larger, warped, irrational, M*t P****e scarred side of me will still be happy if we avoid relegation though...
I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one of Muskwe, Knight or Adineran back at Wycombe next season, either on loan or fully signed up. Championship or L1, I think we're very well respected as a club that brings the best out of young players, gives them playing time and provides an excellent, supportive atmosphere in which to grow. Yes there have been exceptions but I think we have a pretty high hit rate.
I think you all make very valid points and I have been deliberately cautious, partly as a result of remembering (I hope correctly) how narrow many of our victory margins were last season and how we were suffering a few minor hiccups before the season was terminated.
I am also naturally cautious with my expectations after 75 years following Maidstone United (from just after the end of WW2 until 1956), Wealdstone (1961-1968) and the mighty Blues since 1968. I don’t have the kind of unflinching certainty that sustains our worthy chairman or any of the unique qualities possessed by Gareth Ainsworth and his management/coaching/medical team. But I am 100% loyal and committed to Wycombe Wanderers Football Club.
I am very optimistic about the future but I need to know just who will be retained and who will be added to the squad before I can have a stab at predicting where we are likely to finish next season.
I also enjoy indulging in a little Devil’s Advocacy.
Forgive me @bookertease (and I’m probably being thick) but I couldn’t work out what M*t P****e stood for.
Sorry @micra i come out in a cold sweat every time I think of that game. It was the last time I ever had that: “really looking forward to the game today, we can’t possibly lose” feeling.
I am not a natural pessimist in any other area of life but as a psychological defence measure after that game I have adopted a “really looking forward to the game today, but expect we’ll lose” approach regardless of the strength of our team and weakness of our opposition.
Over the past 30 years or so I often find myself pleasantly surprised after a game...
@micra said:
I think you all make very valid points and I have been deliberately cautious, partly as a result of remembering (I hope correctly) how narrow many of our victory margins were last season and how we were suffering a few minor hiccups before the season was terminated.
I am also naturally cautious with my expectations after 75 years following Maidstone United (from just after the end of WW2 until 1956), Wealdstone (1961-1968) and the mighty Blues since 1968. I don’t have the kind of unflinching certainty that sustains our worthy chairman or any of the unique qualities possessed by Gareth Ainsworth and his management/coaching/medical team. But I am 100% loyal and committed to Wycombe Wanderers Football Club.
I am very optimistic about the future but I need to know just who will be retained and who will be added to the squad before I can have a stab at predicting where we are likely to finish next season.
I also enjoy indulging in a little Devil’s Advocacy.
Forgive me @bookertease (and I’m probably being thick) but I couldn’t work out what M*t P****e stood for.
Far be it for me to spread rumours but is it a coincidence that you were following Wealdstone between 61 and 68 and the Raider was born in 1966
@MorrisItal_ I’m afraid you’ve lost me there ! I’m useless on American sport, supermen/women etc so you’ll have to forgive me. I was engaged at that time to a dishy Mill Hill blonde but we were very cautious!
@micra said: @MorrisItal_ I’m afraid you’ve lost me there ! I’m useless on American sport, supermen/women etc so you’ll have to forgive me. I was engaged at that time to a dishy Mill Hill blonde but we were very cautious!
The Wealdstone Raider was a bit of an internet sensation, he has nothing to do with American sports but would make an excellent superhero
Crikey, the family likeness is remarkable.
Could have been after celebrating that 4-3 cup win against Stevenage. Hold on, I met the present mrs micra in 1964. Well, I’m blowed.
Comments
Rotherham have done alright though, similar size to Gillingham, Southend and Scunthorpe.
I am hopeful and optimistic for next season. We will keep most of our squad together, we will lose some key loanees (do they ever stay two seasons at one club?) but overall we will have a great squad.
Subjective indeed @DevC as you have just selected examples that fit. Got the whole data set?
can't be arsed to look at how many years you have gone back there...but you have 7 examples of many more relegated teams
The omission of Rotherham calls the whole list into question. Very selective.
Any separation of clubs on "small" or "big" is inevitably subjective. To some extent there is a risk that a small cub in 2004 may have got relegated in 2005 promoted in 2006 and now be seen as a "big club" when they were small then. This is the full list of championship clubs since it became the Championship. It took that as the time when the financial gaps widened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EFL_Championship_clubs.
I cut off at the seven listed above. The next four on the list I would see as a bit "bigger" but would arguably be Rotherham, Doncaster, MK and Plymouth.
There figures would be
Rotherham (1) 3 4th 2 1 2 (one of playoffs actually automatic)
Rotherham (2) 1 2nd 1 1 1
Doncaster(1) 4 1st 1 1 1 (actually playoff was automatic)
Doncaster (2) 1 13th 0 n/a 0
MK 1 12th 0 n/a 0
Plymouth 6 23rd 0 n/a 0
There may be other teams you see as bigger.
Hilariously poor attempt
No disrespect to the great teams of yesteryear...but (warning an opinion will follow) for me this is the best set of players and strongest team we've had under Gareth while I've been an ST holder so I expect us to be extremely competitive next term. I thought we were playing well and would have made the L1 play-offs anyway before the lay-offs so the idea that this team will suddenly fold after a season in the second tier to become a poor mid-table side on our return in front of crowds seems very pessimistic to me. I know it's the hope that kills yer but even so...
“Team” is often incorrectly used to refer to a club or squad. In the context of potential to challenge for a return to the Championship, we have to think in terms of the squad. Yes, the team (or teams, if we go back to the start of the much improved performances and results) certainly has that potential but we simply don’t know how many of the key players in that run (Knight, Adeniran, Muskwe, Mehmeti, for example) will still be with us.
For that reason I will not be speculating on our prospects (beyond what I’ve already said in vague and general terms) until I know who’s leaving, who’s staying and who’s made the wise decision to join us on the next stage of this epic journey.
but @micra none of those players were in the squad that came up...the nucleus (excepting Bayo and Blooms) will either largely be the same and improved by Taffs and Uche with Kashket, Gape and Samuel coming back into contention. The players you mention would indeed be severely missed if we were in the Championship, but I am still pretty sure we will have a competitive Squad (including some new faces) for next season.
Hmm. Just running through a likely starting 11 for next season with the players we have (or likely to have).
Stockdale (or Allsop), Grimmer, JJ. Stewart, Taff, Gape, Thompson, Wheeler, Fred, Uche, Kashket.
Add to that McLeary, Horgan and hopefully Mehmeti and that actually does look a competitive team to me.
Having been the bookies favourites to get relegated for the past 3 seasons it will be interesting to see how we are rated this summer.
The small rational side of me says we should be challenging. The larger, warped, irrational, M*t P****e scarred side of me will still be happy if we avoid relegation though...
I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one of Muskwe, Knight or Adineran back at Wycombe next season, either on loan or fully signed up. Championship or L1, I think we're very well respected as a club that brings the best out of young players, gives them playing time and provides an excellent, supportive atmosphere in which to grow. Yes there have been exceptions but I think we have a pretty high hit rate.
Given the start of our last L1 season actually having a team to watch and being able to go and watch them is a bonus for me!
I think you all make very valid points and I have been deliberately cautious, partly as a result of remembering (I hope correctly) how narrow many of our victory margins were last season and how we were suffering a few minor hiccups before the season was terminated.
I am also naturally cautious with my expectations after 75 years following Maidstone United (from just after the end of WW2 until 1956), Wealdstone (1961-1968) and the mighty Blues since 1968. I don’t have the kind of unflinching certainty that sustains our worthy chairman or any of the unique qualities possessed by Gareth Ainsworth and his management/coaching/medical team. But I am 100% loyal and committed to Wycombe Wanderers Football Club.
I am very optimistic about the future but I need to know just who will be retained and who will be added to the squad before I can have a stab at predicting where we are likely to finish next season.
I also enjoy indulging in a little Devil’s Advocacy.
Forgive me @bookertease (and I’m probably being thick) but I couldn’t work out what M*t P****e stood for.
@micra, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Police?
think FA Trophy, 1989/90, @micra
Sorry @micra i come out in a cold sweat every time I think of that game. It was the last time I ever had that: “really looking forward to the game today, we can’t possibly lose” feeling.
I am not a natural pessimist in any other area of life but as a psychological defence measure after that game I have adopted a “really looking forward to the game today, but expect we’ll lose” approach regardless of the strength of our team and weakness of our opposition.
Over the past 30 years or so I often find myself pleasantly surprised after a game...
Gotcha! But it’s taken me until now to cop it! Met more than our metch that day.
@bookertease I remember it well! The best ever example of “what could possibly go wrong?” A right bunch of bananas!
Correct term is a " hand of bananas" @micra!
Far be it for me to spread rumours but is it a coincidence that you were following Wealdstone between 61 and 68 and the Raider was born in 1966
Thanks @mooneyman ! Me n my luv of scanning and alliteration ! Don’t like bananas either.
@MorrisItal_ I’m afraid you’ve lost me there ! I’m useless on American sport, supermen/women etc so you’ll have to forgive me. I was engaged at that time to a dishy Mill Hill blonde but we were very cautious!
He’s got no fans.
The Wealdstone Raider was a bit of an internet sensation, he has nothing to do with American sports but would make an excellent superhero
Crikey, the family likeness is remarkable.
Could have been after celebrating that 4-3 cup win against Stevenage. Hold on, I met the present mrs micra in 1964. Well, I’m blowed.
Peterborough promoted with a 95 min penalty that is one of the worst decisions I’ve ever seen
Yes cheating w@nkers, possibly knight will sign for them now.
Doubly annoying that you take away even one bad decision against us and we stay up.
Which one though @Shev ? I’d plump for the disallowed goal at home to Watford - the match in which Ben Foster was Man of the Match.