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Steve Baker “MP”

Anyone surprised that Steve Baker is a member of a website so toxically fascist that it’s been removed from Apple and Google’s app stores and kicked off AWS hosting?

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Comments

  • Im never surprised by the tories.... what surprises me is the average Joe's who vote em in and have absolutely no benefit from doing so🤷‍♂️

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  • Whats particularly incredible is that 24,766 electors voted for this moron.

  • @bigred87 said:
    Im never surprised by the tories.... what surprises me is the average Joe's who vote em in and have absolutely no benefit from doing so🤷‍♂️

    Yes I find it bizarre that people will turn their back on anyone who looks to distribute ‘their’ wealth/earnings equitably and fairly for the greater good of the community and society but then towards those who actively distribute that wealth into their own pockets.

    But Steve Baker being a complete cock is no surprise at all. To anyone. Including himself

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  • I might have a look through his private messages later.

  • All these social media platforms are a danger aren't they? No idea about Steve Baker apart from his party and his ERG position but in general people follow who they like on social media and then only hear that point of view on issues.

    As employers are known to trawl possible new staff for social media faux pars it's difficult to follow a broad range of views as the more controversial get picked up. In a different world should listen to differing views to be educated and get a more rounded opinion. Trouble is the algorithms pick up the more extreme and magnify it with unwanted ads and suggestions.

    I wonder what social media follows people would be prepared to admit as being outside the normal for their beliefs. I actually wonder if me following Donald Trump on Twitter was a great idea.

  • I’m all in favour of potential employees scouring candidates social media. “So Mr xxxxx, I see you liked that post by that racist, misogynist zzzzz. Please explain why...”

    What worries me is that there are probably more employers who then follow that up with: “welcome to our team” than I care to imagine

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  • I hope I get to buy you a beer or two one day @bookertease

  • Never a good look to have anything in common with that odious weasel Ben Bradley either.

  • Was Beery Nigel plugging his financial plans on there at all? He liked whipping up trumpanzees as i recall.

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  • As usual, I regret your apparently certain but malicious characterisations of those with different positions to yours on matters political, @drcongo. This disagrees with the agreeable impression I gained of you on our short meeting a couple of years(?) ago.

    As for the suggestion elsewhere that people only follow those with whom they disagree on social media, I know from personal experience that that is not universally so.

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  • edited January 11

    Parler was an absolute cess pit, I made a throwaway account with zero posts a while back so I had a browse now and then, and so much bile was on there. Way beyond anything that anyone could claim is simply "a difference of politics".

    That being said, social media does need to change, it's not acceptable that a private company has that much power, with no real regulation on what they censor

  • @Username said:
    Parler was an absolute cess pit, I made a throwaway account with zero posts a while back so I had a browse now and then, and so much bile was on there. Way beyond anything that anyone could claim is simply "a difference of politics".

    That being said, social media does need to change, it's not acceptable that a private company has that much power, with no real regulation on what they censor

    I'm think I'm certainly with you on that second paragraph. There are some really big issues that have come up with this because of the near monopolies held by Twitter, Amazon, Google and Facebook, aren't there.

  • People may not agree with Steve Baker's view but we live in a democracy and he was elected by the majority - which is more than can be said for tech company bosses.

  • @Doob said:
    People may not agree with Steve Baker's view but we live in a democracy and he was elected by the majority - which is more than can be said for tech company bosses.

    This.

  • edited January 11

    @HCblue said:

    @Username said:
    Parler was an absolute cess pit, I made a throwaway account with zero posts a while back so I had a browse now and then, and so much bile was on there. Way beyond anything that anyone could claim is simply "a difference of politics".

    That being said, social media does need to change, it's not acceptable that a private company has that much power, with no real regulation on what they censor

    I'm think I'm certainly with you on that second paragraph. There are some really big issues that have come up with this because of the near monopolies held by Twitter, Amazon, Google and Facebook, aren't there.

    Yep, but it's without question that the power to censor shouldn't simply rest with a single political party either. How do you force people to use other social media platforms to not have a monopoly, that would just lead to two separate echo chambers, and two different realities- even more than now.

    There were thousands of posts overtly supporting white supremacy and genocide on genocide beyond the conspiracy posts and posts to send Mike Pence to a firing squad by one of its bigger accounts. It was not moderated safely.

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  • edited January 12

    Absolutely, on the echo chamber point. This is the problem you risk creating when you censor certain positions much more stringently than others on a platform like Twitter. Those you cast out want to go somewhere and you thus create the possibility of the separate chambers you mention where much less is gained by the reader from interaction on each.

    I think it's worth specifying that Parler was created in response to the increasing amounts of censorship seen as taking place on Twitter, by people tending to be free speech advocates rather than by extreme right wingers looking for a safe place to express hatefulness of that ilk. Not everyone there is a refugee from Twitter, of course, and a good number of people maintain accounts on both platforms.

    Bad speech is the price of free speech. My position is not to advocate for the replacement of company censorship with state censorship - I agree that would be just as bad and, in fact, I suspect that the proprietor of Twitter would, by nature, prefer to reduce the level of moderation of his site but that he, and the owners of Facebook et al. feel a considerable pressure from government because of the near monopolies they hold - but instead for a more careful, balanced and transparent process to be used in the moderation of the platforms. The downside of the current process is starting to be seen clearly. The objection of Amazon and Facebook that led to their recent actions towards Parler might be seen less as principled and more as driven by competitive impulse abetted by governmental pressure to be seen to be keeping their users safe from "harm".

    As a keen advocate for the benefits of free speech, I recognise that the recent events in America have highlighted the difficulty of distinguishing between rhetoric that destabilises society and legitimate, and thus extremely valuable, dissent from received wisdom.

  • I’m not sure you can be an advocate for the benefits of free speech; you can be an advocate for free speech of course and free speech has both benefits and downsides.

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  • edited January 12

    Free speech @HCblue is a right and a highly desirable one. It never has been an absolute right though. Like any other right, the right to exercise it has to be balanced against the damage to other people's rights by so doing. James Hanratty was famously hanged for what he said that allegedly lead to a mans murder. The film "The Accused" showed that a man goading another to commit rape does not have a "free speech" defence. It does seem that Trump and his allies attempting to use social media to ferment a coup to stay in power has similarly lost his right to unfettered free speech.

    I do agree that those of us who do not naturally share Trump's politics must not go far in response to this incident and create martyrs as a result. we haven't so far in my judgement but there is a tendency on both sides of the political divide at the moment for absolutism which in my view in this case would be counter-productive.

    I see nothing wrong with Baker, a man I wouldn't vote for, being a member of Parler or listening to what prominent US political figures are saying.

  • edited January 12

    @HCblue said:
    As usual, I regret your apparently certain but malicious characterisations of those with different positions to yours on matters political, @drcongo. This disagrees with the agreeable impression I gained of you on our short meeting a couple of years(?) ago.

    This is an unfortunate personal dig. If we can't call a nazi a nazi now then your beloved free speech really is dead. It's unfortunate because your later, longer post is excellent bar one huge inaccuracy...

    I think it's worth specifying that Parler was created in response to the increasing amounts of censorship seen as taking place on Twitter, by people tending to be free speech advocates rather than by extreme right wingers looking for a safe place to express hatefulness of that ilk. Not everyone there is a refugee from Twitter, of course, and a good number of people maintain accounts on both platforms.

    This is so misinformed that it can't go unremarked upon. The Mercer funded Parler's default mode for 99% of its users is that they are "shadow-banned" (posts don't show up in search or timelines etc. except for people following them) from the moment they sign up, until a moderator deems that their posts are right-wing enough to be visible to the larger "community". Famous right-wing "influencers" get automatically boosted in the algorithm, and if your views are deemed "correct" by the moderators you are allowed to pay to have them boosted. It looks like we've found the people that have this mythical "manual of acceptable words" you've mentioned in the past. So much freedom.

    Bad speech is the price of free speech.

    Free speech is a spectrum. We have laws against certain hate speech, we have laws against incitement to violence. If you shout "fire" in a theatre and people die in a stampede to get out, you're not absolved of all responsibility just because Toby Young says so.

    The objection of Amazon and Facebook that led to their recent actions towards Parler might be seen less as principled and more as driven by competitive impulse abetted by governmental pressure to be seen to be keeping their users safe from "harm".

    I agree with this entirely. It cannot be a matter of principle as they've stood idle and done nothing for the last 4 years while many of us have been trying to tell them what's going on.

    I recognise that the recent events in America have highlighted the difficulty of distinguishing between rhetoric that destabilises society and legitimate, and thus extremely valuable, dissent from received wisdom.

    I want to agree with you here, but I have no idea how you have difficulty in recognising white supremacist, nazi, qanon and "alt-right" hate speech as bad.

    As a side note, I consider Facebook to be far more damaging and dangerous to society than Parler. Parler is where the right go after they've been radicalised, Facebook is where the radicalisation happens.

    Edit: Just to add, I don't think we're on different sides on this matter. We just have different ideas of where the line should be drawn.

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  • I take it you had in mind the fomenting of public disorder rather than a chemical interaction @DevC !

  • I doubt any government involvement as agencies like to.monitor these sites and no-one wants to interfere with business. Bad publicity leading to activism and then commercial problems is the big motivator. Unmoderated Social media created the problem and like Trumpism and Brexit its now a struggle to put the genie back in the bottle. What is hilarious about the US right wing from Orange Potus down is that big mouthed as they are they seem to.be totally incompetent and unable to comprehend what they have done and the reaction to it. Even mainstream media gobshites are rolling back to some extent with 'I never expected this...'

  • edited January 12

    Thanks for your input @micra . Must admit I always thought (wrongly it appears) the word was spelt forment but spellcheck insisted that I must then be referring to an island in the balearics. This is becoming a habit - I was firmly in the dilemna not dilemma camp until recently. All the certainties of my youth being stripped away one by one..... Hopefully the meaning was clear.

  • It was indeed. It’s always reassuring when erudite and articulate people give a quick flash of Achilles heel !

  • As you know, I live a nitpick.

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  • You hitting on me , mate? Amazing what one flash of heel can do to a more mature Gentleman....

  • Just an observation: it was only recently on here that some were advocating the removal/taking down of posters on the Millwall site because of their racist leanings. Would this not be removing free speach/right to a POV? I felt at the time it was akin to the CCP overseeing internet activity. Just an observation not supporting racism BTW.

  • @micra said:
    As you know, I live a nitpick.

    Serves me right. Recurring theme - sausage finger in the ‘i’ ‘o’ area - resulting in a Freudian slop, sorry, slip.

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  • @Devc James Hanratty was famously hanged for committing a murder (long disputed but finally settled by DNA some years later) I suspect you are getting confused with Derek Bentley who may or may not have meant shot the copper or hand over your gun when he said 'Let Him have it Chris.'

  • Ah shit. You are quite right @Wendoverman . Cant even blame spelling error for that.
    The point stands though i think.

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