I bet there’s a massive crossover in people who used to cry ‘we should be looking after our own’ whenever a British charity spent money overseas and those vehemently against the free school holiday meals initiatives.
I'd make the presumption that the majority of people who are either overtly racist or don't like the Black Live Matter campaign either don't know many or any black people in their day to day lives, or don't work with or aren't friends with any black people, therefore I'd like to think all footballers support BLM and taking the knee, since its surely one of the jobs where you are almost certain to know, work with and be friends with black people. Of course there'll be exceptions but I'd sincerely hope that footballers are at the forefront of any anti racism campaign.
Like others I find it quite easy to consider both BLM and Covid important. At the same time!!!! Also I have my own view about the real reason why some people get uncomfortable, sneery and seem to think either or both are some sort of con or liberal joke that people are being 'forced' to adhere to. After all don't all viruses matter blah blah blah blah.
"Virtue signalling" as a pejorative, like "politically correct" and "social justice warrior" always tickles me. It's like trying to insult someone by calling them a good person, while simultaneously admitting that your own virtue is lacking, your politics are wrong and you care nothing for justice.
Or Lawrence Fox bizarrely moaning that black actors never complain about their struggles in the industry until they are famous and have a platform to.complain about their struggles in the industry.
@drcongo said:
"Virtue signalling" as a pejorative, like "politically correct" and "social justice warrior" always tickles me. It's like trying to insult someone by calling them a good person, while simultaneously admitting that your own virtue is lacking, your politics are wrong and you care nothing for justice.
It really isn't. The phrase is meant to suggest that a person is trying to raise the esteem in which they are held, including by themself, by signalling some kind of popular opinion on an ethical subject in the public eye. It has nothing to do with suggesting that being genuinely virtuous has any negative connotations.
All about context, you can derive some context by looking at a persons twitter feed or previous gasroom rants as it's a reflection of their opinion, but trying to paint people you don't like, who disagree with you your enemies as all the same is an old trick perfected over decades.
"Virtue Signalling" might in some eyes be meant to describe people who seek publicity for any good they do with the idea that that is their primary motivation, but is pushed at anyone who publicly praises anything now whereas in our social media dominated rent a quote world encouraging a bit of decency and charity is needed more than ever.
If someone is doing something virtuous, I couldn't give a toss if they shout about it. Didn't see many of the rabid flag humpers calling Captain Tom Moore a virtue signalling sjw, yet plenty of them aim it at Marcus Rashford. I wonder why that could be.
It's pretty obvious that "virtue signalling" has a second meaning to most people, usually showing that the writer is morally devoid numpty who can't comprehend that others do genuinely believe and help effect change for reasons other than personal gain, something that their mind's can't comprehend.
If you've never read someone accuse someone who has actually made a difference (eg Rashford) of virtue signalling and thought of the second meaning, then it's pretty likely you fall into the "not able to comprehend" category.
Just to be absolutely clear, for the avoidance of doubt, yes, I am saying that people who use "virtue signalling" as a pejorative are far right racists using one of many terms they have come up with as a proxy for the actual racist bile that they're struggling so hard not to say out loud.
It's a term that I understand. It is capable of being used as a pejorative accurately or inaccurately. I have used the term - it describes very well a certain kind of behaviour. I am not a far right racist.
It's not always used in a racial context, and up to fairly recently I'd suggest its earlier meaning was valid in a number of cases, Mostly when aimed at hypocrites. For example whenever the Daily Mail do any charity work.
Nowadays though, it sits alongside the "All lives matter" types as predictable ways of people who aren't really affected by an issue trying to deflect people who are from campaigning.
@StrongestTeam said:
It's not always used in a racial context, and up to fairly recently I'd suggest its earlier meaning was valid in a number of cases, Mostly when aimed at hypocrites. For example whenever the Daily Mail do any charity work.
Nowadays though, it sits alongside the "All lives matter" types as predictable ways of people who aren't really affected by an issue trying to deflect people who are from campaigning.
Exactly this, the last 6 months to a year have completely changed its meaning. Once the alt right start using phrases as dog whistles to push their nonsense onto their idiotic followers, it quickly permeates into general society.
Didn't see many of the rabid flag humpers calling Captain Tom Moore a virtue signalling sjw, yet plenty of them aim it at Marcus Rashford. I wonder why that could be.
Excellent analogy. Get back to playing football and stop moaning! ( I wonder who had to tell Dominic the MBE didn't shut him up after all...)
I know I’m thick when it comes to this morning’s kind of discussion, hard as I try to make sense of it but the phrase in brackets in your last post @Wendoverman has me completely baffled.
My view @micra which may or may not be accurate is that sometimes gongs are handed out to people making noisy and embarrassing trouble for the government in the hope that it makes them think twice about carrying on their criticism. In MR's case despite being honoured by Her Maj in April he is still banging on and MPs are having trouble gritting their teeth not to slag him off as the criticism goes on and on.
If I’d spotted from my cursory glance at all the turgid stuff that Marcus Rashford had been referred to (and if I’d known he’d been honoured) I’d have stood a bit of a chance to understand your comment but your excellent elucidation has made it completely clear. Pellucid in fact.
One of Bayo’s real wishes in his excellent video is that people should no longer content to look the other way, content with the fact they themselves don’t feel they are racist. He thought the time has come where good people need to call out injustices and biases, whether they are directly affected by them or not.
He appears to be imploring us to ‘virtue signal’.
If someone wants to use that as a pejorative term, it certainly does reveal a lot about them.
Comments
More depressing @eric_plant
I would have thought it highly unlikely that every player would be of exactly the same mindset?
About racism?
About everything.
I bet there’s a massive crossover in people who used to cry ‘we should be looking after our own’ whenever a British charity spent money overseas and those vehemently against the free school holiday meals initiatives.
And owners of Princess Di commemorative plates.
Pretty sure that all players agree that black lives matter.
I mean I’m sure there are some racist footballers in this country. I very much doubt Gareth and Dobbo would hire them though.
I'd make the presumption that the majority of people who are either overtly racist or don't like the Black Live Matter campaign either don't know many or any black people in their day to day lives, or don't work with or aren't friends with any black people, therefore I'd like to think all footballers support BLM and taking the knee, since its surely one of the jobs where you are almost certain to know, work with and be friends with black people. Of course there'll be exceptions but I'd sincerely hope that footballers are at the forefront of any anti racism campaign.
Sorry if that comes across as clumsy. Basically agreeing with @Chris.
Like others I find it quite easy to consider both BLM and Covid important. At the same time!!!! Also I have my own view about the real reason why some people get uncomfortable, sneery and seem to think either or both are some sort of con or liberal joke that people are being 'forced' to adhere to. After all don't all viruses matter blah blah blah blah.
I also have a view about people that use phrases such as "virtue signalling"
"Virtue signalling" as a pejorative, like "politically correct" and "social justice warrior" always tickles me. It's like trying to insult someone by calling them a good person, while simultaneously admitting that your own virtue is lacking, your politics are wrong and you care nothing for justice.
DDH?
@drcongo see also ‘champagne socialist’. What’s wrong with someone reasonably well off putting their hand up to pay more tax?
Or Lawrence Fox bizarrely moaning that black actors never complain about their struggles in the industry until they are famous and have a platform to.complain about their struggles in the industry.
It really isn't. The phrase is meant to suggest that a person is trying to raise the esteem in which they are held, including by themself, by signalling some kind of popular opinion on an ethical subject in the public eye. It has nothing to do with suggesting that being genuinely virtuous has any negative connotations.
All about context, you can derive some context by looking at a persons twitter feed or previous gasroom rants as it's a reflection of their opinion, but trying to paint people you don't like, who disagree with you your enemies as all the same is an old trick perfected over decades.
"Virtue Signalling" might in some eyes be meant to describe people who seek publicity for any good they do with the idea that that is their primary motivation, but is pushed at anyone who publicly praises anything now whereas in our social media dominated rent a quote world encouraging a bit of decency and charity is needed more than ever.
Phew! Anyone else struggling with all this existential arcanery? All well above my head.
If someone is doing something virtuous, I couldn't give a toss if they shout about it. Didn't see many of the rabid flag humpers calling Captain Tom Moore a virtue signalling sjw, yet plenty of them aim it at Marcus Rashford. I wonder why that could be.
It's pretty obvious that "virtue signalling" has a second meaning to most people, usually showing that the writer is morally devoid numpty who can't comprehend that others do genuinely believe and help effect change for reasons other than personal gain, something that their mind's can't comprehend.
If you've never read someone accuse someone who has actually made a difference (eg Rashford) of virtue signalling and thought of the second meaning, then it's pretty likely you fall into the "not able to comprehend" category.
Just to be absolutely clear, for the avoidance of doubt, yes, I am saying that people who use "virtue signalling" as a pejorative are far right racists using one of many terms they have come up with as a proxy for the actual racist bile that they're struggling so hard not to say out loud.
It's a term that I understand. It is capable of being used as a pejorative accurately or inaccurately. I have used the term - it describes very well a certain kind of behaviour. I am not a far right racist.
It's not always used in a racial context, and up to fairly recently I'd suggest its earlier meaning was valid in a number of cases, Mostly when aimed at hypocrites. For example whenever the Daily Mail do any charity work.
Nowadays though, it sits alongside the "All lives matter" types as predictable ways of people who aren't really affected by an issue trying to deflect people who are from campaigning.
Exactly this, the last 6 months to a year have completely changed its meaning. Once the alt right start using phrases as dog whistles to push their nonsense onto their idiotic followers, it quickly permeates into general society.
Didn't see many of the rabid flag humpers calling Captain Tom Moore a virtue signalling sjw, yet plenty of them aim it at Marcus Rashford. I wonder why that could be.
Excellent analogy. Get back to playing football and stop moaning! ( I wonder who had to tell Dominic the MBE didn't shut him up after all...)
I know I’m thick when it comes to this morning’s kind of discussion, hard as I try to make sense of it but the phrase in brackets in your last post @Wendoverman has me completely baffled.
My view @micra which may or may not be accurate is that sometimes gongs are handed out to people making noisy and embarrassing trouble for the government in the hope that it makes them think twice about carrying on their criticism. In MR's case despite being honoured by Her Maj in April he is still banging on and MPs are having trouble gritting their teeth not to slag him off as the criticism goes on and on.
If I’d spotted from my cursory glance at all the turgid stuff that Marcus Rashford had been referred to (and if I’d known he’d been honoured) I’d have stood a bit of a chance to understand your comment but your excellent elucidation has made it completely clear. Pellucid in fact.
One of Bayo’s real wishes in his excellent video is that people should no longer content to look the other way, content with the fact they themselves don’t feel they are racist. He thought the time has come where good people need to call out injustices and biases, whether they are directly affected by them or not.
He appears to be imploring us to ‘virtue signal’.
If someone wants to use that as a pejorative term, it certainly does reveal a lot about them.
Sorry for the bad phrasing, I can’t seem to edit posts here and wrote that rather excitedly.