I’m usually naturally pessimistic when it comes to Wycombe matches (for example I thought we’d get relegated last season).
For some reason I actually think we will do enough to stay up this season.
There are probably a dozen clubs who we just won’t be able to compete against in terms of class and will need to catch them on a bad day and get lucky to get any points from, but the others dozenish we should be in the game with. Just a case of maximising what we can from those games.
Woah, that escalated quickly. You may have accepted relegation but I will BELIEVE that we are staying in the Championship unless it is mathematically impossible. There is a lot of football to be played and we are acclimatizing to a new League, in so many ways; perhaps as big a step as ever in the club's 133 year history.
If it makes you happier to admit defeat now and "enjoy the ride" do that, but I will keep the faith that this is a winnable battle; that every game and every duel is a winnable battle. The goals will come. The points will come.
I agree that we should enjoy the ride, but writing this lot after three games would be insane, after the miracle of last season. Yes, we need lightening to basically strike twice...but we have the best conductors in the business!
Maybe I was a touch maudlin last night and too hasty in writing off our chances of staying up. But I do think the next three weeks will be crucial. We have to strengthen the squad significantly to be in with a chance.
Gareth knows he needs better midfielders or else we wouldn't have had the likes of Karacan on trial over the summer. I don't know what's stopped us going out and signing any, though Gareth did say in one his interviews at the start of the season that players were being put off by us not offering high enough wages.
We have a golden chance available to us and I don't like the idea of us throwing it away because we refuse to be competitive in this division, not least when we're being given millions of pounds purely to allow us to be so. Others may choose to tug their forelocks when Rob Couhig tells us that he's not prepared to spend large amounts to keep us up. I'm sure lots of the improvements he's bringing in will be wonderful. But those glitzy LED advertising hoardings aren't going to get many companies paying to use them in League One.
Gareth is far too much of an ambassador to say anything publicly but he must be tearing his hair out at not being able to bring in the reinforcements we require to stay up in this division. Dennis Adeniran looked fine yesterday - but just like Ofoborh he'll need his time to get up to speed and will benefit from playing alongside Championship-ready players. We can't rely on McCarthy as a back-up left back. Bayo and Ikpeazu won't be available all season, by the looks of things, and we need at least one striker who opposition defenders will fear. Maybe we can get all these players from the loan market. But maybe we'll need to splash some cash. The next three weeks will be crucial.
Weren't we losing money hand over fist before Rob Couhig bought the club. Don't forget that whilst he has put money in, unless we can find a way to be sustainable, he isn't going to be a constant stream of subsidies. As such, hate to say it, but we still have to be prudent. The millions that we may or may not have coming in may have to be used to keep the business alive. We might even come out of this stronger than most, by not having any borrowings? Bear in mind that we have spent transfer money on upgrades to the playing staff, with Horgan & Ikpeazu, plus having to pay in part or whole the wages of Adrenin. The transfer window hadn't yet closed, so there will be opportunities in the loan market.
Don't write us off yet.
All of these improvements we're making to floodlights, around the ground, the training ground etc, those aren't a one season wonder. Presumably they will last for a long time and we wouldn't have been able to afford them without this promotion.
The obvious problem with the idea of funnelling all monies into the playing side, is no amount guarantees survival - well, 100m might, but no realistic amount does. Plus we're presumably still constrained by financial fair play, even if certain top level teams find a creative way around it.
We can't suddenly boot 10m in, and triple our wage bill anyway.
I agree we can't go mental throwing the cash about and put our club in financial trouble,even if we throw some big money about there is still no guarantee we will stay up ,just look at the state Sunderland are in
For those of you suggesting we "spaff the cash" I highly recommend listening to this
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p08q9nr2 - episode 5 particularly touches on the whole issue of running a club as a sustainable business, but all episodes are worth listening to
43 games to go, far too early to start worrying. I believe Colchester lost their first three games after being promoted to the Championship and they finished up in the top half of the the table.
Yes, but Rotherham had a point after 3 games on their way to a 23 pointer!
So we can always find negatives to any positive
Agree on it being "too early", but the nerves will definitely increase as the games rack up.
Will we still be saying it's too early to worry if it's 17 games in with 0 points? I jest, but at the back of my mind I'm not laughing!
At least into October we have more regular games, so less time to stew in between.
No points from17 games would indeed by very concerning, but I have every confidence that we will do better than that. To survive we need to win one game in every three, possibly fewer if other clubs are punished for financial irregularities as Sheffield Wednesday were.
It’s not beyond our capabilities once we’ve settled into this very difficult league.
We have to be able to compete in games to get anything out of them though, which we didn't do Vs Blackburn or Swansea (until it was too late)
The second half was an improvement, and I do think Swansea will be up there this season and maybe Blackburn will be the surprise package with their performance against Derby, but I still think we need to at least use up our allowance of loans to even have a sniff of staying up.
I've got no problem in us getting relegated, but we need to compete in matches or things could be embarrassing
@glasshalffull said:
43 games to go, far too early to start worrying. I believe Colchester lost their first three games after being promoted to the Championship and they finished up in the top half of the the table.
Yeovil won their first match in the Championship after winning the play offs, but didn't spend any money strengthening their squad, relying on free transfers and loanees. They finished bottom of the division. The next season, they finished bottom of League One.
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not advocating spending the whole £9m on the playing squad. But we simply must spend some of it on marquee players otherwise we'll waste this season. Stick relegation clauses in their contacts or give them one-year deals so we're not tied to paying big salaries should the worst happen and we go down. But just sticking it all in the bank (or worse still, paying it out in dividends) isn't the whole answer either. I'm all for taking George Osborne's advice of fixing the roof while the sun is shining, but that roof isn't going to cost £9m. I think it's naive to believe Gareth isn't making a similar argument as well. The best chance of securing financial stability is to stay in the Championship. The best chance of achieving that is through investing in the playing staff.
@glasshalffull said:
43 games to go, far too early to start worrying. I believe Colchester lost their first three games after being promoted to the Championship and they finished up in the top half of the the table.
Yeovil won their first match in the Championship after winning the play offs, but didn't spend any money strengthening their squad, relying on free transfers and loanees. They finished bottom of the division. The next season, they finished bottom of League One.
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not advocating spending the whole £9m on the playing squad. But we simply must spend some of it on marquee players otherwise we'll waste this season. Stick relegation clauses in their contacts or give them one-year deals so we're not tied to paying big salaries should the worst happen and we go down. But just sticking it all in the bank (or worse still, paying it out in dividends) isn't the whole answer either. I'm all for taking George Osborne's advice of fixing the roof while the sun is shining, but that roof isn't going to cost £9m. I think it's naive to believe Gareth isn't making a similar argument as well. The best chance of securing financial stability is to stay in the Championship. The best chance of achieving that is through investing in the playing staff.
Agreed, the players we've signed so far I've been pretty happy with, but we need more.
Your point on big wages being an issue if we do go down is obviously valid, but I was kind of hoping we would use the loan market for our "star" players, who might cost a bit more in wages for that exact reason. We need at least 1 or 2 players that would get into some other teams at this standard
Bearing in mind the Couhig's extended our budget last year to the max we could utilise, why are we presuming we're intentionally trying to do it on the cheap?
Horgan and Uche came from the Scottish premier. While everyone has their opinion on that league, and wages won't exactly be sky high, they both must have had a good offer to move 400+ miles away, when neither were out of contract.
There's a big difference between making smart purchases that stretch what we've paid before, and recklessly going all in for what might be a one year excursion.
Very few players are coming here on a 1 year deal and I dare say many will be put off by the idea of a possible relegation meaning a drop in wages.
I would be interested who you would consider would be a "marquee player" we could sign that would be within our maximum £9m budget @aloysius.
Looking at the wage budgets at other clubs, Watford have 16 players earning over £1m a year including Gray and Deeney who are both on £70k per week.
Even established Championship sides have huge budgets, particularly Derby who spent £46.8m on wages last season. Notts Forest have 6 players earning £1m plus a year and another 16 on over £500,000.
Do people realise that the domestic transfer window is open till October 16? There’s no need to panic, more players will be recruited but I’m not sure about ‘marquee’ signings. We pay the lowest wages in the Championship so we’ll only be in the market for players who aren’t wanted by other, richer clubs. I expect we’ll see more loanees rather than permanent signings.
@mooneyman I will leave the scouting to others, it's not my forte. But playing Fantasy Chairman 2021, I would be prepared to sanction the signing of a Carrick-style midfield lynchpin, able to read the game and start attacks, on £500k for a one-year contract, and likewise a striker who's a proven goalscorer at this level. That's £1m of the budget - the rest can be banked and used for off-field improvements.
You also have to bear in mind the potential impact bringing in a "marquee signing" on huge wages would have on the existing squad, and dressing room morale. It's exactly the sort of thing Gareth and Dobbo wouldn't do.
You could also argue that it would have a massive boost on morale. No player wants to go out each week expecting to lose and fearing humiliation. Sign a couple of players who can drive the team forward, everyone else will play with confidence. And if the club stays up, that's another year in the Championship and the higher salaries that entails. Everyone's a winner.
Also, Gareth has done exactly this in the past. Bayo, CMS, Sam Saunders, El Abd - none of them will have signed for the average squad salary.
Imagine paying 10k a week to someone when it's very likely no-one else is on even half of that.
Not what we're about really is it.
I wonder about your examples of "top earners" too.
CMS came to us after a leg break and barely playing.
Saunders came to play after a reported big pay off
Bayo is allowed to pursue his media interests and not train with us everyday.
No idea on El Abd
But i think we'd be surprised how well Ainsworth has done to knit them in without breaking any bank.
We can't take on a 2/3 year deal on wages way outside our current structure, both financially and for the changing room, but a loan signing or two where we pay more towards the wages could be a solution to getting access to players who are outside our budget with less long term financial risk
@aloysius said:
You could also argue that it would have a massive boost on morale. No player wants to go out each week expecting to lose and fearing humiliation. Sign a couple of players who can drive the team forward, everyone else will play with confidence. And if the club stays up, that's another year in the Championship and the higher salaries that entails. Everyone's a winner.
Also, Gareth has done exactly this in the past. Bayo, CMS, Sam Saunders, El Abd - none of them will have signed for the average squad salary.
None of our players are ‘going out each week expecting to lose and fearing humiliation.’
We must also remember that not all available players (in fact, probably very few) will fit the Psychological profile demanded by GA and Dobbo to fit the team.
Comments
I’m usually naturally pessimistic when it comes to Wycombe matches (for example I thought we’d get relegated last season).
For some reason I actually think we will do enough to stay up this season.
There are probably a dozen clubs who we just won’t be able to compete against in terms of class and will need to catch them on a bad day and get lucky to get any points from, but the others dozenish we should be in the game with. Just a case of maximising what we can from those games.
Woah, that escalated quickly. You may have accepted relegation but I will BELIEVE that we are staying in the Championship unless it is mathematically impossible. There is a lot of football to be played and we are acclimatizing to a new League, in so many ways; perhaps as big a step as ever in the club's 133 year history.
If it makes you happier to admit defeat now and "enjoy the ride" do that, but I will keep the faith that this is a winnable battle; that every game and every duel is a winnable battle. The goals will come. The points will come.
Oh ye of little faith...
A better performance yesterday in the second half , I'm sure we will start picking up points soon
I agree that we should enjoy the ride, but writing this lot after three games would be insane, after the miracle of last season. Yes, we need lightening to basically strike twice...but we have the best conductors in the business!
Maybe I was a touch maudlin last night and too hasty in writing off our chances of staying up. But I do think the next three weeks will be crucial. We have to strengthen the squad significantly to be in with a chance.
Gareth knows he needs better midfielders or else we wouldn't have had the likes of Karacan on trial over the summer. I don't know what's stopped us going out and signing any, though Gareth did say in one his interviews at the start of the season that players were being put off by us not offering high enough wages.
We have a golden chance available to us and I don't like the idea of us throwing it away because we refuse to be competitive in this division, not least when we're being given millions of pounds purely to allow us to be so. Others may choose to tug their forelocks when Rob Couhig tells us that he's not prepared to spend large amounts to keep us up. I'm sure lots of the improvements he's bringing in will be wonderful. But those glitzy LED advertising hoardings aren't going to get many companies paying to use them in League One.
Gareth is far too much of an ambassador to say anything publicly but he must be tearing his hair out at not being able to bring in the reinforcements we require to stay up in this division. Dennis Adeniran looked fine yesterday - but just like Ofoborh he'll need his time to get up to speed and will benefit from playing alongside Championship-ready players. We can't rely on McCarthy as a back-up left back. Bayo and Ikpeazu won't be available all season, by the looks of things, and we need at least one striker who opposition defenders will fear. Maybe we can get all these players from the loan market. But maybe we'll need to splash some cash. The next three weeks will be crucial.
Weren't we losing money hand over fist before Rob Couhig bought the club. Don't forget that whilst he has put money in, unless we can find a way to be sustainable, he isn't going to be a constant stream of subsidies. As such, hate to say it, but we still have to be prudent. The millions that we may or may not have coming in may have to be used to keep the business alive. We might even come out of this stronger than most, by not having any borrowings? Bear in mind that we have spent transfer money on upgrades to the playing staff, with Horgan & Ikpeazu, plus having to pay in part or whole the wages of Adrenin. The transfer window hadn't yet closed, so there will be opportunities in the loan market.
Don't write us off yet.
All of these improvements we're making to floodlights, around the ground, the training ground etc, those aren't a one season wonder. Presumably they will last for a long time and we wouldn't have been able to afford them without this promotion.
The obvious problem with the idea of funnelling all monies into the playing side, is no amount guarantees survival - well, 100m might, but no realistic amount does. Plus we're presumably still constrained by financial fair play, even if certain top level teams find a creative way around it.
We can't suddenly boot 10m in, and triple our wage bill anyway.
I agree we can't go mental throwing the cash about and put our club in financial trouble,even if we throw some big money about there is still no guarantee we will stay up ,just look at the state Sunderland are in
For those of you suggesting we "spaff the cash" I highly recommend listening to this
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p08q9nr2 - episode 5 particularly touches on the whole issue of running a club as a sustainable business, but all episodes are worth listening to
& then listen to these guys https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/aiv3i-a2e90/The-Price-of-Football-Podcast on a regular basis to see the soundness of what is being built at the club
43 games to go, far too early to start worrying. I believe Colchester lost their first three games after being promoted to the Championship and they finished up in the top half of the the table.
Yes, but Rotherham had a point after 3 games on their way to a 23 pointer!
So we can always find negatives to any positive
Agree on it being "too early", but the nerves will definitely increase as the games rack up.
Will we still be saying it's too early to worry if it's 17 games in with 0 points? I jest, but at the back of my mind I'm not laughing!
At least into October we have more regular games, so less time to stew in between.
No points from17 games would indeed by very concerning, but I have every confidence that we will do better than that. To survive we need to win one game in every three, possibly fewer if other clubs are punished for financial irregularities as Sheffield Wednesday were.
It’s not beyond our capabilities once we’ve settled into this very difficult league.
We have to be able to compete in games to get anything out of them though, which we didn't do Vs Blackburn or Swansea (until it was too late)
The second half was an improvement, and I do think Swansea will be up there this season and maybe Blackburn will be the surprise package with their performance against Derby, but I still think we need to at least use up our allowance of loans to even have a sniff of staying up.
I've got no problem in us getting relegated, but we need to compete in matches or things could be embarrassing
Yeovil won their first match in the Championship after winning the play offs, but didn't spend any money strengthening their squad, relying on free transfers and loanees. They finished bottom of the division. The next season, they finished bottom of League One.
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not advocating spending the whole £9m on the playing squad. But we simply must spend some of it on marquee players otherwise we'll waste this season. Stick relegation clauses in their contacts or give them one-year deals so we're not tied to paying big salaries should the worst happen and we go down. But just sticking it all in the bank (or worse still, paying it out in dividends) isn't the whole answer either. I'm all for taking George Osborne's advice of fixing the roof while the sun is shining, but that roof isn't going to cost £9m. I think it's naive to believe Gareth isn't making a similar argument as well. The best chance of securing financial stability is to stay in the Championship. The best chance of achieving that is through investing in the playing staff.
Agreed, the players we've signed so far I've been pretty happy with, but we need more.
Your point on big wages being an issue if we do go down is obviously valid, but I was kind of hoping we would use the loan market for our "star" players, who might cost a bit more in wages for that exact reason. We need at least 1 or 2 players that would get into some other teams at this standard
Bearing in mind the Couhig's extended our budget last year to the max we could utilise, why are we presuming we're intentionally trying to do it on the cheap?
Horgan and Uche came from the Scottish premier. While everyone has their opinion on that league, and wages won't exactly be sky high, they both must have had a good offer to move 400+ miles away, when neither were out of contract.
There's a big difference between making smart purchases that stretch what we've paid before, and recklessly going all in for what might be a one year excursion.
Very few players are coming here on a 1 year deal and I dare say many will be put off by the idea of a possible relegation meaning a drop in wages.
Your last paragraph will be a huge issue
I would be interested who you would consider would be a "marquee player" we could sign that would be within our maximum £9m budget @aloysius.
Looking at the wage budgets at other clubs, Watford have 16 players earning over £1m a year including Gray and Deeney who are both on £70k per week.
Even established Championship sides have huge budgets, particularly Derby who spent £46.8m on wages last season. Notts Forest have 6 players earning £1m plus a year and another 16 on over £500,000.
Notts Forest?
Oh @mooneyman
Do people realise that the domestic transfer window is open till October 16? There’s no need to panic, more players will be recruited but I’m not sure about ‘marquee’ signings. We pay the lowest wages in the Championship so we’ll only be in the market for players who aren’t wanted by other, richer clubs. I expect we’ll see more loanees rather than permanent signings.
If it's good enough for County, it's good enough for Forest!! After all, County are the senior team in Nottingham.
I thought that was ranked right down there with calling the away kit...an away kit not a change kit
@mooneyman I will leave the scouting to others, it's not my forte. But playing Fantasy Chairman 2021, I would be prepared to sanction the signing of a Carrick-style midfield lynchpin, able to read the game and start attacks, on £500k for a one-year contract, and likewise a striker who's a proven goalscorer at this level. That's £1m of the budget - the rest can be banked and used for off-field improvements.
You also have to bear in mind the potential impact bringing in a "marquee signing" on huge wages would have on the existing squad, and dressing room morale. It's exactly the sort of thing Gareth and Dobbo wouldn't do.
You could also argue that it would have a massive boost on morale. No player wants to go out each week expecting to lose and fearing humiliation. Sign a couple of players who can drive the team forward, everyone else will play with confidence. And if the club stays up, that's another year in the Championship and the higher salaries that entails. Everyone's a winner.
Also, Gareth has done exactly this in the past. Bayo, CMS, Sam Saunders, El Abd - none of them will have signed for the average squad salary.
Imagine paying 10k a week to someone when it's very likely no-one else is on even half of that.
Not what we're about really is it.
I wonder about your examples of "top earners" too.
CMS came to us after a leg break and barely playing.
Saunders came to play after a reported big pay off
Bayo is allowed to pursue his media interests and not train with us everyday.
No idea on El Abd
But i think we'd be surprised how well Ainsworth has done to knit them in without breaking any bank.
We can't take on a 2/3 year deal on wages way outside our current structure, both financially and for the changing room, but a loan signing or two where we pay more towards the wages could be a solution to getting access to players who are outside our budget with less long term financial risk
None of our players are ‘going out each week expecting to lose and fearing humiliation.’
a Carrick-style midfield lynchpin, able to read the game and start attacks
Sounds like Josh Scowen to me.
We must also remember that not all available players (in fact, probably very few) will fit the Psychological profile demanded by GA and Dobbo to fit the team.