Hard to tell whether this is an issue with Wigan specifically or the first of sadly several/many to come.
If the points penalty is applied, even if they survive pushes them into the relegation zone.
I am not normally with the "premier league bashers" but at a time when perhaps double figure clubs risk going out of business, it does feel immoral that PL clubs are paying eight figure perhaps nine figure transfer fees. I don't understand why an emergency transfer levy system has not been implemented whereby a small levy on transfers can be used to fund saving some of these clubs.
@DevC said:
Hard to tell whether this is an issue with Wigan specifically or the first of sadly several/many to come.
If the points penalty is applied, even if they survive pushes them into the relegation zone.
I am not normally with the "premier league bashers" but at a time when perhaps double figure clubs risk going out of business, it does feel immoral that PL clubs are paying eight figure perhaps nine figure transfer fees. I don't understand why an emergency transfer levy system has not been implemented whereby a small levy on transfers can be used to fund saving some of these clubs.
Even if there was appetite for it among the senior figures of the Premier League, It is probably very legally difficult for them to unilaterally impose such a levy on fees.
I wonder if this was inevitable or if having to complete the season behind closed doors tipped the scales, in which case, can you imagine the impact it would have had on L1 & L2.
Really sad state of affairs that football finds itself in, "Move on, nothing to see here" seems to be the new slogan for the FA, EFL and clubs themselves.
There was some talk earlier in the season of the whole championship going into admin due to covid so no league positions could then be lost.
I suspect that Wigan think this is their best chance of wiping all debts and staying in Championship / top of league one next season. Take the points now, hope to stay up and worse case is no points deduction in League One.
I still advocate one league automatic relegation, then if you finish in drop zone you go down another league (no points deduction). If you win promotion you stay in same division.
Completing the season BCD unless you have cash reserves or are in hock to the TV boys was always going to be tricky, doesn't bode well for restarts under the same circumstances with "Opening up" seemingly unraveling before it starts.
The Prem "chipping in" thing I'm told goes way back to formation. They promised or suggested a certain percentage contribution, made far more money than even they imagined and so say they contribute more despite never reaching the percentage. They were also setup as a commercial entity to protect and enhance their share of football spent as a whole and have individual commercial owners, charitable foundations and debts. Basically dream on.
Not entirely sure what has happened in the last month particularly that forces Wigan's new owners to do this though that wasn't incoming anyway, points to either a dodgy sham takeover or a shambolic lack of due diligence.
If they stay up the points will be taken this season if not they will start on minus 12 in League 1 next !!
They are in good form if they keep it going they could stay up even with the deduction.
Much like every company in every other industry. For me football has lived much closer to the financial cliff than lots of other industries so has to take the hit if it all goes wrong.
Really horrible for supporters but it had to happen at some point. For what it is worth I think Wigan will survive.
The silence is deafening when it comes to the rich clubs supporting the lower leagues. Their £1 million contribution to women's football also feels like pittance.
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
Much like every company in every other industry. For me football has lived much closer to the financial cliff than lots of other industries so has to take the hit if it all goes wrong.
>
I sort of agree with you to an extent RiM. In normal circumstances the non premier clubs know what budget they have (including money coming down from premier league) and its up to those lower clubs to manage what they have and not whine that PL should give them more.
But Covid is not normal circumstances that could have been predicted. it has caused a chronic financial crisis in the football industry. At that time i would like to see a little bit of solidarity across the family to address the emergency. Man United dont have to fork out £50m for a player, but if they wish to they can afford an emergency 1% levy on that fee. That £500k levy may keep one or more lower league clubs alive through the emergency.
Trouble is there are too many EFL clubs too close to each other in Manchester all fly fishing from the same pond with two big clubs with large fishing boats ( alright slightly clumsy way of putting it but you get my drift )
I have always thought that deducting points due to going into Administration is like kicking someone when their down. Whilst there may be good reason for doing that in normal times could the EFL not waive that deduction rule for the duration of the pandemic Ie going forward from now until the end of the 20/21 season. ? In addition some financial support from the impoverished PL would not go amiss.
I'm unclear what you believe the EFL can do in the midst of the crisis? The clubs themselves were on a cliff edge before COVID in spite of the efforts to encourage sounder financing. I doubt the league rules allow bail-outs of individual clubs as opposed to a payment to all. Sad and difficult times.
But Covid is not normal circumstances that could have been predicted. it has caused a chronic financial crisis in the football industry. At that time i would like to see a little bit of solidarity across the family to address the emergency. Man United dont have to fork out £50m for a player, but if they wish to they can afford an emergency 1% levy on that fee. That £500k levy may keep one or more lower league clubs alive through the emergency.
And I pretty much agree with your points but why should/would it happen in football?
Would Sainsburys bail out Upper Crust?
Should Next help TM Lewin?
What about Amazon paying a levy to HMV or owner run book shops?
The problem with football is not all the money at the top. It's the disparity between what tickles down in cash compared to what players and agent expect as they tickle down the leagues. Pne owner will always take a punt so it never changes.
But Covid is not normal circumstances that could have been predicted. it has caused a chronic financial crisis in the football industry. At that time i would like to see a little bit of solidarity across the family to address the emergency. Man United dont have to fork out £50m for a player, but if they wish to they can afford an emergency 1% levy on that fee. That £500k levy may keep one or more lower league clubs alive through the emergency.
And I pretty much agree with your points but why should/would it happen in football?
Would Sainsburys bail out Upper Crust?
Should Next help TM Lewin?
What about Amazon paying a levy to HMV or owner run book shops?
The problem with football is not all the money at the top. It's the disparity between what tickles down in cash compared to what players and agent expect as they tickle down the leagues. Pne owner will always take a punt so it never changes.
I suppose the difference is that it is arguably in the biggest clubs' interests to maintain a viable league structure below them. Now that is not meant to suggest that permanent financial support would be justified by that argument - the lower leagues would not be viable if that was what was required - but rather some kind of short term support to get over the coming hump.
In saying this, I recognise that many other countries don't have such a deep, strong league structure and that the most secure PL clubs may not view the lower leagues as necessary to their prosperity. Simply suggesting it might be arguably so far more than on the high street where the absence of competition is an unquestioned boon because the customers are definitely going to buy food from someone even if their preferred outlet goes out of business.
There is a lot of vitriol out there for the EFL and I'm not certain under the current structure what they could do differently. From what I've read this is my understanding but please correct me if I've misunderstood.
The EFL are elected by the clubs, they put forward suggestions that the clubs then vote on and then they are meant to administer those.
The fit and proper persons test has been ratified and signed off by each club as being fit for purpose. As part of that the prospective owners only have to show they have the necessary funds and not actually move the funds into a secure bank account should they decide to walk away etc.
If EFL clubs do not vote / discuss to change the rules to provide more protection, what can the EFL board actually do about it?
It's the same issue with the voting for ending the league, they just don't have the power under the current constitution and rules to actually do anything, as the clubs always have a vote.
Surely if fans want more protection then an independent body is probably needed to regulate but I cannot see clubs ever voting for that.
Hoping I haven't missed the point.
It absolutely does smell incredibly fishy, wouldn't be surprised if Mr Plod isnt involved before this is finished.
Sadly unless existing owners agree to a bond or escrow scheme for prospective new owners I cannot see anything changing with this merry go round of owners of dubious probity with many of the EFL clubs
Comments
Shit, didn't realise they were taken over last month. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/01/wigan-go-into-administration-four-weeks-after-hong-kong-takeover
Glad to see the EFL’s new and improve fit and proper persons tests after the Bury and Bolton debacle are working well.
Hard to tell whether this is an issue with Wigan specifically or the first of sadly several/many to come.
If the points penalty is applied, even if they survive pushes them into the relegation zone.
I am not normally with the "premier league bashers" but at a time when perhaps double figure clubs risk going out of business, it does feel immoral that PL clubs are paying eight figure perhaps nine figure transfer fees. I don't understand why an emergency transfer levy system has not been implemented whereby a small levy on transfers can be used to fund saving some of these clubs.
Even if there was appetite for it among the senior figures of the Premier League, It is probably very legally difficult for them to unilaterally impose such a levy on fees.
I wonder if this was inevitable or if having to complete the season behind closed doors tipped the scales, in which case, can you imagine the impact it would have had on L1 & L2.
Really sad state of affairs that football finds itself in, "Move on, nothing to see here" seems to be the new slogan for the FA, EFL and clubs themselves.
There was some talk earlier in the season of the whole championship going into admin due to covid so no league positions could then be lost.
I suspect that Wigan think this is their best chance of wiping all debts and staying in Championship / top of league one next season. Take the points now, hope to stay up and worse case is no points deduction in League One.
I still advocate one league automatic relegation, then if you finish in drop zone you go down another league (no points deduction). If you win promotion you stay in same division.
Completing the season BCD unless you have cash reserves or are in hock to the TV boys was always going to be tricky, doesn't bode well for restarts under the same circumstances with "Opening up" seemingly unraveling before it starts.
The Prem "chipping in" thing I'm told goes way back to formation. They promised or suggested a certain percentage contribution, made far more money than even they imagined and so say they contribute more despite never reaching the percentage. They were also setup as a commercial entity to protect and enhance their share of football spent as a whole and have individual commercial owners, charitable foundations and debts. Basically dream on.
Not entirely sure what has happened in the last month particularly that forces Wigan's new owners to do this though that wasn't incoming anyway, points to either a dodgy sham takeover or a shambolic lack of due diligence.
If Wigan go completely out of business as per Bury then EFL should give their Championship place to Peterborough as they were cheated out of it ;-)
If they stay up the points will be taken this season if not they will start on minus 12 in League 1 next !!
They are in good form if they keep it going they could stay up even with the deduction.
But they have to be at least 13 points clear to stay up
I suspect survival as a club is far more important to them now than survival in the same division.
I doubt sadly all 71 league clubs will start next season
Much like every company in every other industry. For me football has lived much closer to the financial cliff than lots of other industries so has to take the hit if it all goes wrong.
Really horrible for supporters but it had to happen at some point. For what it is worth I think Wigan will survive.
The silence is deafening when it comes to the rich clubs supporting the lower leagues. Their £1 million contribution to women's football also feels like pittance.
>
I sort of agree with you to an extent RiM. In normal circumstances the non premier clubs know what budget they have (including money coming down from premier league) and its up to those lower clubs to manage what they have and not whine that PL should give them more.
But Covid is not normal circumstances that could have been predicted. it has caused a chronic financial crisis in the football industry. At that time i would like to see a little bit of solidarity across the family to address the emergency. Man United dont have to fork out £50m for a player, but if they wish to they can afford an emergency 1% levy on that fee. That £500k levy may keep one or more lower league clubs alive through the emergency.
I agree with DevC.
Just going for a lie down.
What is it with Manchester clubs and administration? Yet another club in administration. Personally, I do hope they come out of it...
Trouble is there are too many EFL clubs too close to each other in Manchester all fly fishing from the same pond with two big clubs with large fishing boats ( alright slightly clumsy way of putting it but you get my drift )
I have always thought that deducting points due to going into Administration is like kicking someone when their down. Whilst there may be good reason for doing that in normal times could the EFL not waive that deduction rule for the duration of the pandemic Ie going forward from now until the end of the 20/21 season. ? In addition some financial support from the impoverished PL would not go amiss.
Edit..beaten to it
Same old story
What a shambles. The club was sold DURING A GLOBAL PANDEMIC and the EFL STILL could not find a way to safeguard against dodgy owners.
Don't know if it's gross incompetence or by design but the 71 will become about 51 by this time next year if the EFL continue this way.
I'm unclear what you believe the EFL can do in the midst of the crisis? The clubs themselves were on a cliff edge before COVID in spite of the efforts to encourage sounder financing. I doubt the league rules allow bail-outs of individual clubs as opposed to a payment to all. Sad and difficult times.
And I pretty much agree with your points but why should/would it happen in football?
Would Sainsburys bail out Upper Crust?
Should Next help TM Lewin?
What about Amazon paying a levy to HMV or owner run book shops?
The problem with football is not all the money at the top. It's the disparity between what tickles down in cash compared to what players and agent expect as they tickle down the leagues. Pne owner will always take a punt so it never changes.
I suppose the difference is that it is arguably in the biggest clubs' interests to maintain a viable league structure below them. Now that is not meant to suggest that permanent financial support would be justified by that argument - the lower leagues would not be viable if that was what was required - but rather some kind of short term support to get over the coming hump.
In saying this, I recognise that many other countries don't have such a deep, strong league structure and that the most secure PL clubs may not view the lower leagues as necessary to their prosperity. Simply suggesting it might be arguably so far more than on the high street where the absence of competition is an unquestioned boon because the customers are definitely going to buy food from someone even if their preferred outlet goes out of business.
Rumour has it the Wigan owner bet on them to be relegated. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/wigan-athletic-relegation-administration-latest-efl-chairman-rick-parry-bet-gambling-philippines-a9599176.html
There is a lot of vitriol out there for the EFL and I'm not certain under the current structure what they could do differently. From what I've read this is my understanding but please correct me if I've misunderstood.
The EFL are elected by the clubs, they put forward suggestions that the clubs then vote on and then they are meant to administer those.
The fit and proper persons test has been ratified and signed off by each club as being fit for purpose. As part of that the prospective owners only have to show they have the necessary funds and not actually move the funds into a secure bank account should they decide to walk away etc.
If EFL clubs do not vote / discuss to change the rules to provide more protection, what can the EFL board actually do about it?
It's the same issue with the voting for ending the league, they just don't have the power under the current constitution and rules to actually do anything, as the clubs always have a vote.
Surely if fans want more protection then an independent body is probably needed to regulate but I cannot see clubs ever voting for that.
Hoping I haven't missed the point.
Bit more on this. Stinks.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/02/story-of-how-wigan-collapsed-into-administration-au-yeung-investigation
Good article.
It absolutely does smell incredibly fishy, wouldn't be surprised if Mr Plod isnt involved before this is finished.
Sadly unless existing owners agree to a bond or escrow scheme for prospective new owners I cannot see anything changing with this merry go round of owners of dubious probity with many of the EFL clubs
Further article here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53309675
How can they need £6M to complete the season and pay last months wages? Surely they cannot be spending £72M per annum on wages & running costs?