I've had a bit of a flick round all the other forums as well, and unless I'm missing a load... the only ones who are massively moaning about us are Oxford. I even saw some comments on the Sunderland forum, and another that I've now forgotten which club, that actually said we deserve to be in the play offs !!
If they are going to decide a final table without playing, why not get a panel of experts to decide the results like the old Pools Coupons Groups like use to?
Do none of these clowns understand that we were in the playoff zone after our last game and it's merely due to not having a game in the last round of fixtures that saw us slip out due to every one else playing more?!
I generally avoid twitter but followed a couple of the above links. I know as a supporter of a team who look like they may benefit from the solution being proposed my judgement may be slightly skewed, but please. Some of the arguments in there are frankly ignorant and insane,
Is that what Twitter is usually like? (And I daren't look at Facebook)
Actually there was one comment in there I did like. The suggestion that we use the Duckworth-Lewis method to decide the season.
I appreciate it’s probably not practical to design and implement for this season but it has become a recognised, complex but generally well regarded way to provide results for unfinished cricket matches.
Developing something similar that could be applied to football seasons going forwards in the event that a season is curtailed or one or two clubs are unable to complete their fixtures due to illness may be a sensible solution to keep in the ‘in case of emergency’ pocket.
@bookertease said:
Actually there was one comment in there I did like. The suggestion that we use the Duckworth-Lewis method to decide the season.
I appreciate it’s probably not practical to design and implement for this season but it has become a recognised, complex but generally well regarded way to provide results for unfinished cricket matches.
Developing something similar that could be applied to football seasons going forwards in the event that a season is curtailed or one or two clubs are unable to complete their fixtures due to illness may be a sensible solution to keep in the ‘in case of emergency’ pocket.
I asked a friend who's made such a model for football (he did it for a masters thesis), and Wycombe came 5th, Fleetwood came 2nd, Oxford, Rotherham were play offs with either posh/ peterborough-united I can't remember which.
But even that model had large caveats attached, one being that it can't account for end of season fixture "importance" to clubs, as some teams' have nothing to play for
@floyd said:
Am I the only one a little bit surprised that there was nothing in the rules about how to settle league positions in a curtailed season already?
I think they are in the cabinet next to the government safeguards for the national good in the event of worldwide pandemic...but no-one could remember where the key was.
Yes the widely accepted DLS method is only used for determining the result of a specific isolated match, not a whole sequence of matches where various games can affect one another.
Saw one post from a Peterborough fan in complete meltdown about how we were stealing their place in the play offs ! How they were flying high and we were in complete freefall... someone else has pointed out that in the last 5 games they had 10 points we had 9... he hasnt responded yet !
@HolmerBlue said:
I need to stop looking on twitter, it really does appear to have an unbelievably high ratio of complete idiots on there
The amount of fans who proclaim one method is "fairer" as it helps their own team is breathtaking.
Mixed in with the classic one eyed nonsense of picking holes in all of a rival's games (the Bolton kids, the inevitable massive drubbing v Coventry), but don't use balance of saying "well they were top for 4-5months", or "they were 4th, and just didn't play last game week"
@floyd, did you even find anything that confirmed the definition of a season as (something like) "Play every other team home and away"?
I've been asking that question for a few weeks and noone seems able to answer it.
The rules only seem to define how a champion and runner-up be determined* and who enters the play-offs. *Points, goal difference, and so on.
But nowhere that I can find do they define what a season actually constitutes?!
‘Season’ means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match and, for each Club, ending immediately after the completion of the Club’s final fixture of the League Competition or, if the Club is participating in the Play-Offs, the final Play-Off match for that Club.
‘League Competition’ means the annual League competition for Clubs organised by The League.
I read that as suitably vague enough for the League to terminate whenever they deem fit.
Actually, if we were thinking purely of ourselves it would probably be in our best interests to vote for the season to continue.
Everyone knows that there is no chance it could finish at our level but by the time the plug is finally pulled there probably wouldn’t be time to arrange any play offs which means it would (probably) revert to PPG leaving the EFL to decide whether to automatically promote the 3rd placed team (us) or not.
@Ned_Ludd, yes I'd seen that and I agree it's vague and, as they don't even define what is meant by the Fixture List, a season is just the period between the first and (last) game.
Specifically the rules don't appear to define that in a season each team needs to play every other team home and away. Hence, if we are forced to stop playing games due to Covid-19, the season is by definition complete.
Strange that Barry Fry has sympathy for Tranmere because they have a game in hand whilst quietly ignoring the fact that Wycombe are in a similar position.
Comments
I've had a bit of a flick round all the other forums as well, and unless I'm missing a load... the only ones who are massively moaning about us are Oxford. I even saw some comments on the Sunderland forum, and another that I've now forgotten which club, that actually said we deserve to be in the play offs !!
We worked very hard to get 'lucky' this season.
What is so difficult to understand?
Anyone can feign ignorance when it suits them
This sums it up perfectly.
This is my favourite suggestion on Twitter:
If they are going to decide a final table without playing, why not get a panel of experts to decide the results like the old Pools Coupons Groups like use to?
Good luck with that.
Of course, that wouldn't bring about even more controversy would it? ??
It's one thing when the conspiracy theories and the like come from fans, it's another when they come from the press.
"Peterborough's place".
What a douche.
Didn't know they owned it?
Do none of these clowns understand that we were in the playoff zone after our last game and it's merely due to not having a game in the last round of fixtures that saw us slip out due to every one else playing more?!
I generally avoid twitter but followed a couple of the above links. I know as a supporter of a team who look like they may benefit from the solution being proposed my judgement may be slightly skewed, but please. Some of the arguments in there are frankly ignorant and insane,
Is that what Twitter is usually like? (And I daren't look at Facebook)
I think @Username is right, it's faux ignorance because there has to be an element of outrage attached to everything that's different.
Actually there was one comment in there I did like. The suggestion that we use the Duckworth-Lewis method to decide the season.
I appreciate it’s probably not practical to design and implement for this season but it has become a recognised, complex but generally well regarded way to provide results for unfinished cricket matches.
Developing something similar that could be applied to football seasons going forwards in the event that a season is curtailed or one or two clubs are unable to complete their fixtures due to illness may be a sensible solution to keep in the ‘in case of emergency’ pocket.
I asked a friend who's made such a model for football (he did it for a masters thesis), and Wycombe came 5th, Fleetwood came 2nd, Oxford, Rotherham were play offs with either posh/ peterborough-united I can't remember which.
But even that model had large caveats attached, one being that it can't account for end of season fixture "importance" to clubs, as some teams' have nothing to play for
Am I the only one a little bit surprised that there was nothing in the rules about how to settle league positions in a curtailed season already?
Statement from AFC Wimbledon on their position: https://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/news/2020/may/club-statement2/
I think they are in the cabinet next to the government safeguards for the national good in the event of worldwide pandemic...but no-one could remember where the key was.
Yes the widely accepted DLS method is only used for determining the result of a specific isolated match, not a whole sequence of matches where various games can affect one another.
I need to stop looking on twitter, it really does appear to have an unbelievably high ratio of complete idiots on there
@HolmerBlue Sometimes, it's a bit like looking at the comments section below articles in the Daily Mail...you really fear for the world.
Saw one post from a Peterborough fan in complete meltdown about how we were stealing their place in the play offs ! How they were flying high and we were in complete freefall... someone else has pointed out that in the last 5 games they had 10 points we had 9... he hasnt responded yet !
The amount of fans who proclaim one method is "fairer" as it helps their own team is breathtaking.
Mixed in with the classic one eyed nonsense of picking holes in all of a rival's games (the Bolton kids, the inevitable massive drubbing v Coventry), but don't use balance of saying "well they were top for 4-5months", or "they were 4th, and just didn't play last game week"
@floyd, did you even find anything that confirmed the definition of a season as (something like) "Play every other team home and away"?
I've been asking that question for a few weeks and noone seems able to answer it.
The rules only seem to define how a champion and runner-up be determined* and who enters the play-offs. *Points, goal difference, and so on.
But nowhere that I can find do they define what a season actually constitutes?!
Carlos Lopez is nice on Twitter
@Twizz
From the Governance section of the EFL rules.
‘Season’ means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match and, for each Club, ending immediately after the completion of the Club’s final fixture of the League Competition or, if the Club is participating in the Play-Offs, the final Play-Off match for that Club.
‘League Competition’ means the annual League competition for Clubs organised by The League.
I read that as suitably vague enough for the League to terminate whenever they deem fit.
Actually, if we were thinking purely of ourselves it would probably be in our best interests to vote for the season to continue.
Everyone knows that there is no chance it could finish at our level but by the time the plug is finally pulled there probably wouldn’t be time to arrange any play offs which means it would (probably) revert to PPG leaving the EFL to decide whether to automatically promote the 3rd placed team (us) or not.
@Ned_Ludd, yes I'd seen that and I agree it's vague and, as they don't even define what is meant by the Fixture List, a season is just the period between the first and (last) game.
Specifically the rules don't appear to define that in a season each team needs to play every other team home and away. Hence, if we are forced to stop playing games due to Covid-19, the season is by definition complete.
the voice of integrity speaks:
https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/sport/football/peterborough-united/peterborough-united-have-been-cheated-efl-ruling-says-barry-fry-club-will-use-sickening-setback-motivation-next-season-2861148?fbclid=IwAR2oqx_uqw1CJXWo98zlQvegkcIOOCNcqza2oMSqqTBGvDsO40j-b0ehsIA
Barry Fry & cheating. Words historically seen in the same sentence!
"Points per game is nonsense. At least use a formula that makes results up."
Strange that Barry Fry has sympathy for Tranmere because they have a game in hand whilst quietly ignoring the fact that Wycombe are in a similar position.