The plan seems very simple. Going all out for the championship by throwing the maximum wages we're allowed to. Once we're in the championship the extra tv money kicks in, and the gates go up massively.
Once we're in the championship and settled, we then become much more attractive, the Couhigs sell us for a profit, and we go from strength to strength.
Well you might be right @eric_plant , but as you have not expressed any details of your contrary opinion or logic for how you got there, it kind of feels like pure wishful thinking.
no, I made no comment on what "our level" is. I don't know what that means.
I did say that even ignoring the issues about transition, I don't see how without any owner funding, we could compete at National League (main level). If you disagree perhaps you could explain why.
I then said I wasn't sure whether we could hold at national league South level or whether we would slip one level down. if you believe that even if top division of national league was not possible we would definitely be OK at NLS, perhaps you could explain why.
@DevC said:
no, I made no comment on what "our level" is. I don't know what that means.
I did say that even ignoring the issues about transition, I don't see how without any owner funding, we could compete at National League (main level). If you disagree perhaps you could explain why.
I then said I wasn't sure whether we could hold at national league South level or whether we would slip one level down. if you believe that even if top division of national league was not possible we would definitely be OK at NLS, perhaps you could explain why.
desperate stuff. I can't believe you still think this sort of thing will work when everyone knows what you are
Pointing out you're talking nonsense is not making an assertion. It's just pointing out you're talking nonsense.
No-one on here seriously needs an explanation of why Wycombe Wanderers can survive at a level higher that Carshalton Athletic or Corinthian Casuals unless they are a) really really thick, or b) a really tedious troll
Take your pick as to which you are. You can be both if you like
Sounds like a good idea for Sky. every week get two football message board rivals together at a match and broadcast the ensuing entertainment. better than this strictly bake a cake drivel that the beeb serves up
@LX1 said:
Sounds like a good idea for Sky. every week get two football message board rivals together at a match and broadcast the ensuing entertainment. better than this strictly bake a cake drivel that the beeb serves up
They did this once with Owain Jones and one of his trolls, quite good viewing:
Asserting that I am talking nonsense without explaining your evidence is the very definition of an assertion. It is also a transparent attempt to divert attention from the fact that you have failed to back up your point.
As I am sure you are aware, smaller teams sometimes spend a season or two in a higher league than you would expect. Corinthian casuals are currently bottom of their league.
But the good news for us is that Hungerford are currently in National League South. We are bigger than them surely. does that mean we couldn’t possibly drop below National League main level?
Perhaps you could clearly state your view.
It’s a simple question. Do you think without owner cash input WWFC could survive for an extended period in the top division of the National League?
It’s a simple question. Do you think without owner cash input WWFC could survive for an extended period in the top division of the National League?
The question was not aimed at me so please excuse me giving my view: The club has survived in the FL for almost 30 years, all but 7 of those as supporter owned. I see no reason why survival in National League or above cannot be achieved if the club continues to be supporter owned.
Surely the level of debate should be a bit better than £ = finishing position.
Good to see Notts County and Plymouth with their outside ownership and "massive" crowds well on their way to the Prem as their fans kept telling us they would be.
Did you ever answer the question Dev about wether you would have closed the gates and filed for bankruptcy the day Jim and Bill pulled out? Or if that chap hadn't scored for Mansfield 5 and a bit years ago.
It’s a simple question. Do you think without owner cash input WWFC could survive for an extended period in the top division of the National League?
The question was not aimed at me so please excuse me giving my view: The club has survived in the FL for almost 30 years, all but 7 of those as supporter owned. I see no reason why survival in National League or above cannot be achieved if the club continues to be supporter owned.
National League status could be maintained as long as the manager utilises Richie's tactical nous.
We are a League One club - potentially a Championship club soon. What's only ever been a dream has a chance of becoming a reality. This is what football is all about. Why are we even talking about the National League? Unless there's something in the deal which would somehow leave us even worse off than we were a few months, why would you vote it down? ?♂️
What I mean is it sounds like people would be happy with that. Let's have some ambition. Besides, how likely is it that fan ownership will suddenly start working when it plainly hasn't for us for the last couple of years?
@chairboyscentral said:
What I mean is, it sounds like people would be happy with that. Let's have some ambition. Besides, how likely is it that fan ownership will suddenly start working when it plainly hasn't for us for the last couple of years?
Fairly sure it's all pro deal people who keep banging on about non-league as a scare tactic, and let's not forget nearly everyone is pro the deal either for its own merit or for practical reasons due to recent debt and losses. This is without anyone having seen a deal. This doesn't mean people can't have genuine concerns, or point out nonsense arguments. I've rather enjoyed the last 5 years or so btw, let's not play down its successes, we may have wacked the budget up this year and that has helped but it's not been paid for yet.
It’s a simple question. Do you think without owner cash input WWFC could survive for an extended period in the top division of the National League?
The question was not aimed at me so please excuse me giving my view: The club has survived in the FL for almost 30 years, all but 7 of those as supporter owned. I see no reason why survival in National League or above cannot be achieved if the club continues to be supporter owned.
I don't for what it is worth (not much as I don't have a vote....) agree with @chairboyscentral view that we should gamble all on the hope of Championship football. I do though think to make a rational decision on the big vote you have to form a rational judgement on the genuine likely outcome of a yeas vote and the genuine likely outcome of a no vote.
personally if I believed that there was a realistic probability of remaining in Lg2 or above after a no vote, I would vote that way. There are real benefits to supporter owned status.
But in recent years at least, the club has lost £500k plus every season before transfer fees funded by director loans and selling off ex-academy starlets. As far as I can understand it no directors are willing to loan money now, the potential sell-on windfalls from previous transfers are now pretty much exhausted and future sales dont look particularly imminent.
We know that we would have had to cut our playing budget to £1.2m this season to break even (this with £1.4m of tv money). While @StrongestTeam is right that there is not 100% correlation between cash and performance, he must surely admit there is a strong correlation. We may have survived a season, maybe two or three, but sooner or later surely the odds are gravity would catch up.
In Lg2, TV money halves and gate money also likely to fall. That surely means another large cut in player budget meaning again sooner or later surely gravity pulls us down to National league.
In National league there is no meaningful TV money and (presumably) even less gate money. And so on.
honestly I cant see how a downward spiral can be avoided. genuinely though if you think I have missed something, please tell me what it is.
Did you ever answer the question Dev about wether you would have closed the gates and filed for bankruptcy the day Jim and Bill pulled out? Or if that chap hadn't scored for Mansfield 5 and a bit years ago.
I cant honestly say i saw the question @StrongestTeam. Happy to answer it now.
If your question is a literal one and I was a director, then it would be a legal question. There are rules on when directors must put businesses into administration (not bankruptcy per se). i would imagine the trust took advice after the Luby deal failed and were OK to continue. I suspect it was a fairly right call though. Obviously no-one would choose administration if it could be avoided.
If your question is more figurative, then yes I would have been bloody worried that that was a very possible outcome each time. I think the board have done an amazing job finding a new offer from mr Couhig. I wouldn't rely on them finding another one again.
Pretty sure I remember talk of having to go part-time in the Conference if the Torquay miracle had not happened and the then takeover proposal had died.
I don't want to see us go out of business due to a lack of ambition (and the Couhigs seem to be the right people at the right time) but if deciding to spend even more money when you are losing it at such a rate doesn't cause anyone any jitters or raise any questions they aren't paying attention.
Might it be a case of needing to speculate to accumulate, @StrongestTeam, trusting that the people making the speculation, the Couhigs, have some idea what they are doing? At least assuming that we don't want to drop to what must be the natural level of most L1 and L2 clubs - the non-leagues...
Comments
The plan seems very simple. Going all out for the championship by throwing the maximum wages we're allowed to. Once we're in the championship the extra tv money kicks in, and the gates go up massively.
Once we're in the championship and settled, we then become much more attractive, the Couhigs sell us for a profit, and we go from strength to strength.
Simples...right?
Of course he disagrees! You're talking utter shite
@Malone you forgot the push for Premiership football and the complaints about going to the Eithiad on Monday night!
Well you might be right @eric_plant , but as you have not expressed any details of your contrary opinion or logic for how you got there, it kind of feels like pure wishful thinking.
You've suggested that competing on a par with Corinthian Casuals is our level.
There's nothing else to say.
no, I made no comment on what "our level" is. I don't know what that means.
I did say that even ignoring the issues about transition, I don't see how without any owner funding, we could compete at National League (main level). If you disagree perhaps you could explain why.
I then said I wasn't sure whether we could hold at national league South level or whether we would slip one level down. if you believe that even if top division of national league was not possible we would definitely be OK at NLS, perhaps you could explain why.
I wish I could explain why...I suspect I didn't get enough levels to compete with some of the people on here.
desperate stuff. I can't believe you still think this sort of thing will work when everyone knows what you are
Ah I wondered how long it would be before you resorted to "playing the man" to avoid actually having to justify your assertion.
Le plus ca change...........
Pointing out you're talking nonsense is not making an assertion. It's just pointing out you're talking nonsense.
No-one on here seriously needs an explanation of why Wycombe Wanderers can survive at a level higher that Carshalton Athletic or Corinthian Casuals unless they are a) really really thick, or b) a really tedious troll
Take your pick as to which you are. You can be both if you like
ps it's "plus ça change"; drop the "le"
I would pay good money to see @eric_plant and @DevC having a heated debate in the concourse at half-time. Just need @DevC to go to a game
With kids kicking balls at them and richie chanting 'Ainsworth out! Ainsworth out!'?
Sounds like a good idea for Sky. every week get two football message board rivals together at a match and broadcast the ensuing entertainment. better than this strictly bake a cake drivel that the beeb serves up
They did this once with Owain Jones and one of his trolls, quite good viewing:
Asserting that I am talking nonsense without explaining your evidence is the very definition of an assertion. It is also a transparent attempt to divert attention from the fact that you have failed to back up your point.
As I am sure you are aware, smaller teams sometimes spend a season or two in a higher league than you would expect. Corinthian casuals are currently bottom of their league.
But the good news for us is that Hungerford are currently in National League South. We are bigger than them surely. does that mean we couldn’t possibly drop below National League main level?
Perhaps you could clearly state your view.
It’s a simple question. Do you think without owner cash input WWFC could survive for an extended period in the top division of the National League?
The question was not aimed at me so please excuse me giving my view: The club has survived in the FL for almost 30 years, all but 7 of those as supporter owned. I see no reason why survival in National League or above cannot be achieved if the club continues to be supporter owned.
Surely the level of debate should be a bit better than £ = finishing position.
Good to see Notts County and Plymouth with their outside ownership and "massive" crowds well on their way to the Prem as their fans kept telling us they would be.
Did you ever answer the question Dev about wether you would have closed the gates and filed for bankruptcy the day Jim and Bill pulled out? Or if that chap hadn't scored for Mansfield 5 and a bit years ago.
National League status could be maintained as long as the manager utilises Richie's tactical nous.
We are a League One club - potentially a Championship club soon. What's only ever been a dream has a chance of becoming a reality. This is what football is all about. Why are we even talking about the National League? Unless there's something in the deal which would somehow leave us even worse off than we were a few months, why would you vote it down? ?♂️
Because that will be the result of a no vote.
Better still - sack GA (he's useless) & appoint Richie at a fraction of GA's salary.
What I mean is it sounds like people would be happy with that. Let's have some ambition. Besides, how likely is it that fan ownership will suddenly start working when it plainly hasn't for us for the last couple of years?
Allegedly.
Fairly sure it's all pro deal people who keep banging on about non-league as a scare tactic, and let's not forget nearly everyone is pro the deal either for its own merit or for practical reasons due to recent debt and losses. This is without anyone having seen a deal. This doesn't mean people can't have genuine concerns, or point out nonsense arguments. I've rather enjoyed the last 5 years or so btw, let's not play down its successes, we may have wacked the budget up this year and that has helped but it's not been paid for yet.
I for one am delighted to see your view @LordMandeville.
I don't for what it is worth (not much as I don't have a vote....) agree with @chairboyscentral view that we should gamble all on the hope of Championship football. I do though think to make a rational decision on the big vote you have to form a rational judgement on the genuine likely outcome of a yeas vote and the genuine likely outcome of a no vote.
personally if I believed that there was a realistic probability of remaining in Lg2 or above after a no vote, I would vote that way. There are real benefits to supporter owned status.
But in recent years at least, the club has lost £500k plus every season before transfer fees funded by director loans and selling off ex-academy starlets. As far as I can understand it no directors are willing to loan money now, the potential sell-on windfalls from previous transfers are now pretty much exhausted and future sales dont look particularly imminent.
We know that we would have had to cut our playing budget to £1.2m this season to break even (this with £1.4m of tv money). While @StrongestTeam is right that there is not 100% correlation between cash and performance, he must surely admit there is a strong correlation. We may have survived a season, maybe two or three, but sooner or later surely the odds are gravity would catch up.
In Lg2, TV money halves and gate money also likely to fall. That surely means another large cut in player budget meaning again sooner or later surely gravity pulls us down to National league.
In National league there is no meaningful TV money and (presumably) even less gate money. And so on.
honestly I cant see how a downward spiral can be avoided. genuinely though if you think I have missed something, please tell me what it is.
I cant honestly say i saw the question @StrongestTeam. Happy to answer it now.
If your question is a literal one and I was a director, then it would be a legal question. There are rules on when directors must put businesses into administration (not bankruptcy per se). i would imagine the trust took advice after the Luby deal failed and were OK to continue. I suspect it was a fairly right call though. Obviously no-one would choose administration if it could be avoided.
If your question is more figurative, then yes I would have been bloody worried that that was a very possible outcome each time. I think the board have done an amazing job finding a new offer from mr Couhig. I wouldn't rely on them finding another one again.
Pretty sure I remember talk of having to go part-time in the Conference if the Torquay miracle had not happened and the then takeover proposal had died.
does that answer your question?
Much more measured as you asked @DevC, well done.
I don't want to see us go out of business due to a lack of ambition (and the Couhigs seem to be the right people at the right time) but if deciding to spend even more money when you are losing it at such a rate doesn't cause anyone any jitters or raise any questions they aren't paying attention.
Where do people suggest we get 2 million quid from should we need it?
Might it be a case of needing to speculate to accumulate, @StrongestTeam, trusting that the people making the speculation, the Couhigs, have some idea what they are doing? At least assuming that we don't want to drop to what must be the natural level of most L1 and L2 clubs - the non-leagues...